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Thread: What if?

  1. #31
    Eruption VH1986's Avatar
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    Yes, Van Halen would still be my favorite band if 5150 had been their first album. I would have thought that Sammy finally got himself an awesome band.

  2. #32
    Atomic Punk jrk5150's Avatar
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    It's actually not too difficult a question - you guys are over-thinking it. You can still have the impact of original Van Halen, just not the band themselves. Hell - pretend it's Red Ball Jets with Roth fronting them with a crazy good guitarist not named Eddie Van Halen...and now here's Sammy fronting a new band coming off his VOA solo album.

    Wouldn't have changed a thing for me. I got into VH in 1984, and thought Roth was the weak link. Sammy was one of my favorites anyway, so to ME, the best band in the world joined with the best singer in the world, and off they went. I wasn't deep enough into VH pre-Sammy for it to really matter, they'd have had me regardless.

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  4. #33
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destructo3 View Post
    No possible way to realistically answer this. Nobody can really know how 5150 is received if itís the first incarnation. The Music industry was so different when the first incarnation came out. People forget the impact Eddie had on the industry. When is the last time people bought records in mass to hear what the guitarist was doing and trying to figure out how he did it. He was to much of a game changer to even wrap my head around.

    While VHís releases with Samís music were great music, they were hardly game changing. Can we say unequivocally if there was no Eddie before 5150, or Eddie didnít experiment with Sam like he did with Dave? No fucking way we can know that.

    Canít compare Bach with The Beatles anymore than Eddieís first releases with Dave than his work work with Sam imo. Both great, just very different. Impossible to say ďI would not have been a fan.Ē How the hell could any of us really know that, let alone what it what have sounded like. Arguing the same music but reversing the order is nonsensical to me.
    Call up Darrin, smoke some weed or eat some edibles, and then answer. It will all make sense then!
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  6. #34
    Banned! VH1988's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Get The Show On The Road View Post


    Sorry, but Van Hagar can't hold a candle to the raw power and energy here.

    This is how I like my hard rock, no polished and safe like fucking Foreigner. VH with Sam strayed too much toward that "safe" rock for my taste.
    Didnít you become a fan during the Hagar tenure? And then convert to Roth?

  7. #35
    Banned! VH1988's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrk5150 View Post
    It's actually not too difficult a question - you guys are over-thinking it. You can still have the impact of original Van Halen, just not the band themselves. Hell - pretend it's Red Ball Jets with Roth fronting them with a crazy good guitarist not named Eddie Van Halen...and now here's Sammy fronting a new band coming off his VOA solo album.

    Wouldn't have changed a thing for me. I got into VH in 1984, and thought Roth was the weak link. Sammy was one of my favorites anyway, so to ME, the best band in the world joined with the best singer in the world, and off they went. I wasn't deep enough into VH pre-Sammy for it to really matter, they'd have had me regardless.
    Bingo

  8. #36
    Atomic Punk Get The Show On The Road's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VH1988 View Post
    Didnít you become a fan during the Hagar tenure? And then convert to Roth?
    Yep. FUCK was the first VH album I bought. Then 5150. I think I borrowed the debut from a friend and I had his copy of LWAN for awhile.

    I didn't really become a CVH first fan until after I graduated from high school and moved into an apartment when I was going to college. I was drinking beers one night with the guy that lived upstairs watching Headbanger's Ball and the Unchained Oakland video came on. I had never seen it before. I was floored. It was literally the coolest rock video I had ever seen. I had all the albums by that point, but I had never really seen the visual except in photos and stuff.

    I then ordered the US Fest from some bootlegger in the back of one of the magazines on VHS. When I got it I loved it immediately. It was so fucking raw and full of screw-ups but it worked. Yeah, Roth was a little cartoonish, but the whole vibe and band was just what I aspired for my own band to be.

    After that the Hagar era just kind of took a back seat for me. I loved Humans Being when it was released and a full album of material like that would have been cool. But then I heard Dave was back and the prospect of songs I'd never heard in concert getting resurrected got me all fired up. And then we got the bait and switch, although the III tour for me was fantastic because we got Romeo Delight, I'm The One, SGMAD, Mean Street, and Humans Being amongst others.

    I still like the Hagar era, don't get me wrong, with FUCK being my favorite album of the four.
    The only genre I really know is Van Halen.

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  10. #37
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrk5150 View Post
    It's actually not too difficult a question - you guys are over-thinking it. You can still have the impact of original Van Halen, just not the band themselves. Hell - pretend it's Red Ball Jets with Roth fronting them with a crazy good guitarist not named Eddie Van Halen...and now here's Sammy fronting a new band coming off his VOA solo album.

    Wouldn't have changed a thing for me. I got into VH in 1984, and thought Roth was the weak link. Sammy was one of my favorites anyway, so to ME, the best band in the world joined with the best singer in the world, and off they went. I wasn't deep enough into VH pre-Sammy for it to really matter, they'd have had me regardless.
    I don't think we are over thinking. If you are a lifelong VH fan, and your five least favorite VH albums contain either the 2nd or 3rd singer in the band, it's not a big leap to say you wouldn't have been as much a fan if that was the only catalog out there.
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  11. #38
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    Just reading through this.... Axl Rose makes David Lee Roth sound like Steve Perry. For that matter, so do Tom Keifer, and Stephen Pearcy.

    In regards to the question at hand... I think I would have liked VH if 5150 was the debut. Are we assuming that Hagar was not a solo artist prior?

    5150 production sounds terrible in retrospect - but as we all know, over chorused guitars and Simmons drums, gated reverb, etc. was the standard back then.

    I would liken the "softer" VH songs on 5150 to Def Leppard Hysteria much more than Air Supply shit.

    Just my 2 cents....

    ~E

  12. #39
    Banned! VH1988's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Coulda Hada VH View Post
    Was 5150 the first Van Halen album you heard?
    1984 was the first VH album I owned.

    1984/5150 are the bands two best albums IMHO. That was Ed at his best songwriting. The fact those two albums are only 2 years apart is mind blowing.

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    So yeah timing is everything.

    At the time though I didn’t buy 5150 until 1989 after owning OU812.

    I knew and liked Sammy prior to VH but believe it or not I didn’t buy into Van Hagar immediately. It was OU812 that blew my mind. I can still remember listening to Mine All Mine for the first time.

    But as time has gone by the greatness of 5150 is more clear to me. It’s such a great album.

  14. #41
    Eruption KS 5150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by halensfi View Post
    This is a very interesting question. So I got into Van Halen right between Diver Down and 1984. I fell in love with them for so many reasons that were not there by the time the 1986, 5150 era started. Honestly speaking, if 5150 was the first exposure, I would have not had the same passionate feelings about the band. So much of the energy and attitude and power and circus comes to town atmosphere was gone. It went with Dave. I hated the new look of the band in 1986. Looked more like Mister Mister. It felt like I was forcing myself to like them. Even when I saw the 5150 show here in Detroit, they sounded great, but visually...not so good. Visual is a big part of it. An once of image...Back to the point....Think about how many top bands were cookin in 1986. I still look through my Circus and Hit Parader mags from back in the day. I remember thinking to myself when I saw the readers poll results from early 1985 in Circus, VH was the top dog, with the Crue and Def coming on strong. I said to myself, VH will stay a bit ahead of the pack, unless they were to break up. They broke up, and everyone else caught up. I still say to this day, if they had another album with Dave after 1984, that would be the one that put them in stadiums. There was a very consistent build up in popularity. It's just a damn shame it all imploded. So no, there was so much other competition out there at the time. I was also big time into Maiden. And a little band from Frisco, named Metallica was starting to simmer too.
    Word
    So true! I also got into them during Diver Down (my 1st VH cassette). I vividly remember the "Panama" video playing during my junior high dance, and they seemed like the funnest bunch of aliens you'd ever heard! I also remember a Circus Magazine from 1984, & the headline was:'Funny you should ask David Lee Roth'.....

    "People ask me how far I've come. And I tell them twelve feet: from the audience to the stage." - David Lee Roth

  15. #42
    5150 VH51504's Avatar
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    They had a couple good songs but it wouldn't be the same. IMO Ed changed with Sam he wasn't the same guitarist Dave and Ed where match made in heaven
    21 years old and dad has thrown him the keys to the car!!

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    Atomic Punk I Coulda Hada VH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrk5150 View Post
    It's actually not too difficult a question - you guys are over-thinking it. You can still have the impact of original Van Halen, just not the band themselves. Hell - pretend it's Red Ball Jets with Roth fronting them with a crazy good guitarist not named Eddie Van Halen...and now here's Sammy fronting a new band coming off his VOA solo album.

    Wouldn't have changed a thing for me. I got into VH in 1984, and thought Roth was the weak link. Sammy was one of my favorites anyway, so to ME, the best band in the world joined with the best singer in the world, and off they went. I wasn't deep enough into VH pre-Sammy for it to really matter, they'd have had me regardless.
    In what way did you think Roth was the weak link in 1984? Was it his live performances? Dave was great on the 1984 album. I can't imagine that record on songs like Panama, Top Jimmy, Drop Dread Legs, Hot For Teacher and Girl Gone Bad without his lyrics and vocals.
    "It's so lonely at the top because it's so crowded at the bottom" - Diamond David Lee Roth

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  19. #44
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    Van Halen was never my favourite band - one of them, but not THE favourite.

    In my teens, I liked to stay up late at night during the summer and on weekends, and occasionally I would catch something like "the Midnight Special" or "Don Kirschner's Rock Concert" or whatever, and seems Hagar was on there a time or two. Did absolutely nothing for me. Not sure if I ever heard anything from him on the radio until whichever single was first off V.O.A. (my two years in college were like a black hole musically - even though I was in college radio and television! I guess WNEW didn't play all the popular rock at that time because there are albums I now own from that era where I don't remember hearing the hits AT ALL). So if this band showed up in 1986 with Sammy Hagar as the singer, I don't think it would've made a dent. The guy from the "I Can't Drive 55" video? I know Dave has had some questionable clothing choices over the years, but at least he has the charisma to pull it off. Sam, not so much. Would've had the same interest in Van Halen with Sammy Hagar as I had in H.S.A.S - none.

    What was my musical landscape in 1986? Kind of like Baltimore I guess - was done with KISS, AC/DC and Loverboy (not sure if I knew; J. Geils Band and The Clash had broken up, but Mick Jones was resurrected in Big Audio Dynamite. The Police were coming off their biggest album and I'm not sure if I knew they were broken up. The Cars were coming off one of their biggest albums and no idea when the next would be. Still waiting for Third Stage. Waiting for the next Def Leppard album. Hadn't been impressed with the Rolling Stones most recent record (which came out the same day) nor Mick's solo album. Aerosmith were back together but Done With Mirrors hadn't bowled me over. Had Robert Plant's records, but only The Principle Of Moments really caught on with me back then (love 'em now); Jimmy Page was back, with The Firm but that was underwhelming as well. Wasn't impressed with Cheap Trick's latest (though I love it now - still wish it had smarter lyrics though). Wasn't into Tom Petty And The Heartbreakers or Eagles yet. Had some Pink Floyd and Fleetwood Mac, but not as into them as I would become. So what was good? Still digging Sports and Reckless I'm sure. I was getting more into U2, though still was disappointed when I first heard The Joshua Tree in '87 (though not for long), Talking Heads, INXS, ZZ Top (though I hadn't gotten to the good stuff), still had Billy Idol, Phil Collins/Genesis, plus now Mike + The Mechanics. Had Once Upon A Time by Simple Minds and Brothers In Arms by Dire Straits
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    I don't think we are over thinking. If you are a lifelong VH fan, and your five least favorite VH albums contain either the 2nd or 3rd singer in the band, it's not a big leap to say you wouldn't have been as much a fan if that was the only catalog out there.
    Didnít mean that. Meant all the ďyou canít really do that because without the six pack they wouldnít have the same kind of music blah blah blahĒ is the overthinking it.

    Whether or not youíd like them is the question Iím saying can be answered without doing all the what if mental gymnastics.
    Last edited by jrk5150; 07.31.19 at 06:36 PM.

 

 

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