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Thread: What if?

  1. #16
    Atomic Punk japeape's Avatar
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    11.17.19 @ 10:43 PM
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    Wow, 1986, Master of Puppets.

    I was already a HC Metallica guy in '84, with Ride the Lightning.
    Metallica was def my favorite band, at that point.
    Graver, Walking Ed, refugee from CVH & proud tone chaser...

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  3. #17
    Good Enough CalFB's Avatar
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    11.19.19 @ 01:43 AM
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    If i'd heard why Can't This Be Love as my first VH song, I would not have bothered with them. Same as if Jump was the first thing i'd heard.

    If i'd heard either of those 2 and then someone played me the rest of the albums, i'm sure my eyebrows would have raised and I would have listened further.
    Most rock journalism is people who can't write, interviewing people who can't talk, for people who can't read. - Frank Zappa

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  5. #18
    Atomic Punk Get The Show On The Road's Avatar
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    11.18.19 @ 09:19 PM
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    Sorry, but Van Hagar can't hold a candle to the raw power and energy here.

    This is how I like my hard rock, no polished and safe like fucking Foreigner. VH with Sam strayed too much toward that "safe" rock for my taste.
    The only genre I really know is Van Halen.

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  7. #19
    5150 NDL's Avatar
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    11.16.19 @ 06:17 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Coulda Hada VH View Post
    Today's new thread started by Little Dreamer with the interview from 2014 with Sammy Hagar got me thinking about some hypothetical questions. The interviewer mentioned how he was 8 years old the first time he heard Jump. In general, a great deal of our VH fandom has been shaped by our history with the band. Some of us older fans have been around since the release of the debut album in 1978. There are probably some fans on here that saw VH play at backyard parties and in clubs before they were even signed by WB. On the other end of the spectrum, there are some fans on here that weren't even born before 1990. Which leads me to the following queries:

    If the David Lee Roth era of Van Halen had never existed and 5150 had been their debut album, how would your VH fandom be different than it is today? Would they still be your favorite band? If not, who would be and why? Remember that in this scenario there was no DLR era of VH. When answering these questions, try to recall the musical landscape in March of 1986. If you're not old enough to remember, I truly envy your youth.
    This is not going to turn out well...

    ***

    If 5150 had been their first album, my interest in Van Halen would've been somewhat fleeting. Van Halen would've been the band much like Journey, 38 Special, Def Leopard, etc., that when I hear them on the radio, I turn it up, and think "that's cool."

    Outside of whatever airplay the aforementioned bands get on the radio, outside of a few songs like "Stone In Love," etc., seldom do I listen to these bands on a daily basis, as I do the six pack.
    "If only Eddie, Alex and Wolfgang had as much enthusiasm about Van Halen as Dave, Sammy and Mike do " - I Coulda Hada VH

    "I don't think he owes us, and I think few if any do. What we would like is for him to release music, since he is our favorite musician. It's a wish and a hope, not a critique." - Dave's Dreidel

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  9. #20
    Good Enough CalFB's Avatar
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    11.19.19 @ 01:43 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Get The Show On The Road View Post


    Sorry, but Van Hagar can't hold a candle to the raw power and energy here.

    This is how I like my hard rock, no polished and safe like fucking Foreigner. VH with Sam strayed too much toward that "safe" rock for my taste.
    I'm not much of a GnR fan, but I agree with the sentiment.
    Most rock journalism is people who can't write, interviewing people who can't talk, for people who can't read. - Frank Zappa

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  11. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Coulda Hada VH View Post
    I realize that this scenario has its flaws because 5150 might have been a completely different album if there had never been VHI through 1984. Maybe the music from Eruption, Unchained and Hot For Teacher show up on 5150.
    Its not really a workable hypothetical. Too much of the music evolution of the 80s was affected by the existence of years of Van Halen prior to 1986.

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  13. #22
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    11.18.19 @ 11:56 AM
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    That's a good point. GNR is probably a different band if not for VH, along with a lot of other bands.
    If I don't respond to you it means I have you on ignore, which means you are a douchenozzle.

    Emperor Brett - "I can't believe you guys are analyzing song-by-song Van Halen III? What next, analyzing the script of Stroker Ace looking for some shred of Citizen Kane?"

    David Lee Roth did the impossible. He made Van Halen better. Deal with it!

    A man's rights rests in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box

    Hurricane Halen - Let's all gingery touch our sword tips!!!

  14. #23
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    11.18.19 @ 11:56 AM
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    But, if all else stayed the same, then no. I was into Iron Maiden and other bands by that point, and then GNR, then Metallica. I didn't like 5150 at the time in 1986, and that is already owning and loving the first six. I had to grow into appreciating it, and if I didn't already have the invested fandom in the band, I wouldn't have that much patience in it.
    If I don't respond to you it means I have you on ignore, which means you are a douchenozzle.

    Emperor Brett - "I can't believe you guys are analyzing song-by-song Van Halen III? What next, analyzing the script of Stroker Ace looking for some shred of Citizen Kane?"

    David Lee Roth did the impossible. He made Van Halen better. Deal with it!

    A man's rights rests in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box

    Hurricane Halen - Let's all gingery touch our sword tips!!!

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  16. #24
    Eruption KS 5150's Avatar
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    11.18.19 @ 02:07 PM
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    As jape said, I would have been a fan, but nowhere near what they meant to me, coming off '1984' & the 6-pack. The Roth era was the bedrock upon which Sam Halen was built. They would have just been another '80's ballad-rock band with a great guitar player, IMHO. Like Dokken, but less edgy lol.
    Last edited by KS 5150; 07.31.19 at 04:20 AM.
    "People ask me how far I've come. And I tell them twelve feet: from the audience to the stage." - David Lee Roth

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  18. #25
    Eruption Simon Ribeiro's Avatar
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    11.18.19 @ 10:46 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Coulda Hada VH View Post
    Zeppelin was long gone by 1986. Aerosmith peaked in the 1970s. Cheap Trick went downhill after Dream Police in 1979. So did the Stones after Tattoo You and ACDC with For Those About To Rock in 1981. The last really good Cars album was Heartbeat City in 1984. The Police disbanded in 1986. I can't imagine ever hitching my wagon to the likes of Motley Crue, RATT or Poison. Metallica, Megadeth and Slayer were never my thing.

    There was a pretty rockin' album released in July 1987
    Cre has 02 decent albums (debut and SATD) and a nice one (Feelgood).
    Ratt is fine. De Martini has nice chops and they put out some good records, man.

    Metallica & Megadeth .... Well, you put a scenario with 5150 as a debut album so I'm pretty sure you would look and listen to both bands with different eyes. Just remember that most of these guys (Martini, Mars, Mustaine) had Edward Van Halen as an icon in the late 1970s and early 1980s. Regarding to Slayer, once you got into Metallica and the Bay Area sound, surely you'd merge into some heavier stuff - Slayer, Forbbiden, Exodus, Testament, Death Angel, Heathen, Vio-lence, Possessed. With that said, your curiosity would have take you to the NWOBHMB and the stuff that came from Europe that influenced those bands, like Tygers of Pan Tang, Saxon, Maiden, Picture, Accept, Diamond Head, Venom, Hellhammer, Samson, Angel Witch.

    Now on topic ... how would your VH fandom be different than it is today? Would they still be your favorite band? If not, who would be and why?

    I'm sure I'd listen to Van Halen (or whatever the band would be named since it was DDLR's suggestion) exclusively based on the Brothers playing. Maybe they both joined UFO in 1976 or even Kiss in the early 1980s before getting their own group, right? But favourite band? I guess not.

    Favourite band using this idea would be Led Zep, Megadeth, DT. And the lack of Van Halen would never be undestood since the music they put out from the 06 pack classic albums would be melted into other bands and titles and influences and whatever could have made it something else.

    Man ... just imagine a world without Eruption!!!
    TT: "Wow, you can play acoustic guitar?"
    EVH: "Sure. What's the difference? It's got six strings... It's a guitar!" - 31.12.1978
    ___________________________________

    "Van Halen is entertainment. Van Halen is entertainment delivered at maximum impact, but it's entertainment." DLR

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  20. #26
    Hot For Teacher halensfi's Avatar
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    11.13.19 @ 09:46 AM
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    This is a very interesting question. So I got into Van Halen right between Diver Down and 1984. I fell in love with them for so many reasons that were not there by the time the 1986, 5150 era started. Honestly speaking, if 5150 was the first exposure, I would have not had the same passionate feelings about the band. So much of the energy and attitude and power and circus comes to town atmosphere was gone. It went with Dave. I hated the new look of the band in 1986. Looked more like Mister Mister. It felt like I was forcing myself to like them. Even when I saw the 5150 show here in Detroit, they sounded great, but visually...not so good. Visual is a big part of it. An once of image...Back to the point....Think about how many top bands were cookin in 1986. I still look through my Circus and Hit Parader mags from back in the day. I remember thinking to myself when I saw the readers poll results from early 1985 in Circus, VH was the top dog, with the Crue and Def coming on strong. I said to myself, VH will stay a bit ahead of the pack, unless they were to break up. They broke up, and everyone else caught up. I still say to this day, if they had another album with Dave after 1984, that would be the one that put them in stadiums. There was a very consistent build up in popularity. It's just a damn shame it all imploded. So no, there was so much other competition out there at the time. I was also big time into Maiden. And a little band from Frisco, named Metallica was starting to simmer too.
    Word

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  22. #27
    Banned! VH1988's Avatar
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    09.18.19 @ 04:37 PM
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    Absolutely.

    Considering I find 5150 to be the best VH album of them all.

  23. #28
    Atomic Punk I Coulda Hada VH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VH1988 View Post
    Absolutely.

    Considering I find 5150 to be the best VH album of them all.
    Was 5150 the first Van Halen album you heard?
    "It's so lonely at the top because it's so crowded at the bottom" - Diamond David Lee Roth

    "The truth sounds like hate to those who hate the truth" - Todd Wagner

    "Women and Children First ... The REAL Van Halen III"

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    Interesting Thread...

    If I first heard EVH fresh in March 86 instead of earlier in 78, I'm 99% sure I would still have heard the genius in his playing style and quickly realized he was light years beyond everyone else in the industry guitar wise, which really is the foundational instrument within rock music.

    You would of heard his unique finger control and musical intelligence instantly. Even without the CVH era coming previously, I would think most people would hear Edward's playing quality as something so unusual that ears would perk up.

    I would have been listening to a lot of 70's back catalog from 78 to 86, with the odd recent release added in... but if I heard EVH at that point in 86, all that other music would seem primitive to me in many ways. EVH was taking the instrument to another level of physical control all while keeping musicality intact.


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  26. #30
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    11.18.19 @ 06:42 PM
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    No possible way to realistically answer this. Nobody can really know how 5150 is received if it’s the first incarnation. The Music industry was so different when the first incarnation came out. People forget the impact Eddie had on the industry. When is the last time people bought records in mass to hear what the guitarist was doing and trying to figure out how he did it. He was to much of a game changer to even wrap my head around.

    While VH’s releases with Sam’s music were great music, they were hardly game changing. Can we say unequivocally if there was no Eddie before 5150, or Eddie didn’t experiment with Sam like he did with Dave? No fucking way we can know that.

    Can’t compare Bach with The Beatles anymore than Eddie’s first releases with Dave than his work work with Sam imo. Both great, just very different. Impossible to say “I would not have been a fan.” How the hell could any of us really know that, let alone what it what have sounded like. Arguing the same music but reversing the order is nonsensical to me.

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