Follow us on...
Follow us on Twitter Follow us on Facebook Watch us on YouTube
Register
Save
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 22
  1. #1
    carpe damn diem billy007's Avatar
    Join Date
    04.19.00
    Age
    55
    Location
    On to Cincinnati...
    Posts
    30,450
    Favorite VH Song

    "Dance The Night Away"
    Last Online

    09.17.19 @ 06:00 PM
    Likes
    1,575
    Liked 2,299 Times in 1,545 Posts

    Default Who writes the songs?

    We had a discussion for a bit in the Motley Crue thread about who gets credit for writing a song and I thought about moving it all here, but decided to just start fresh as I had been thinking about it before that anyway.

    I had mentioned on one hand, I think that any one that brings something to the song when itís first recorded should get credit; but on the other hand it was pointed out that you can strip all that away and take a song down to its original piano or guitar and it is still that song. So just want to get the discussion going again as I think itís a good one.

  2. #2
    Atomic Punk japeape's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.05.15
    Posts
    13,508
    Favorite VH Album

    II & WACF
    Favorite VH Song

    HAIL & Simple Rhyme
    Last Online

    09.17.19 @ 08:52 PM
    Likes
    8,118
    Liked 12,147 Times in 6,640 Posts

    Default

    Always loved Prince' genius intro arpeggiated chords to the epic, Purple Rain.

    But now i learned, during rehearsals, Prince called out a key & said gimme something moody.
    Wendy came up with the entire intro & chordal idea, and Prince said: Yes, that's it!

    But only Prince is credited as the songwriter.

    What if i'm jamming with Jimmy Page & he says: Gimme something in A minor, and
    i come up with the intro to Stairway to Heaven, and he says: Great, i'll take it from here.

    Wendy deserves a writing credit.
    Graver, Walking Ed, refugee from CVH & proud tone chaser...

  3. The Following 2 Members Like This Post:


  4. #3
    Atomic Punk I Coulda Hada VH's Avatar
    Join Date
    12.29.00
    Location
    Land O' Lakers
    Posts
    41,696
    Favorite VH Album

    The First One
    Favorite VH Song

    I'm The One
    Last Online

    09.17.19 @ 10:56 PM
    Likes
    18,637
    Liked 24,279 Times in 13,817 Posts


    Premium Member

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by japeape View Post
    Always loved Prince' genius intro arpeggiated chords to the epic, Purple Rain.

    But now i learned, during rehearsals, Prince called out a key & said gimme something moody.
    Wendy came up with the entire intro & chordal idea, and Prince said: Yes, that's it!

    But only Prince is credited as the songwriter.

    What if i'm jamming with Jimmy Page & he says: Gimme something in A minor, and
    i come up with the intro to Stairway to Heaven, and he says: Great, i'll take it from here.

    Wendy deserves a writing credit.
    Did you know Prince asked Journey for permission to release Purple Rain because he thought it sounded too similar to Faithfully? True story.
    "It's so lonely at the top because it's so crowded at the bottom" - Diamond David Lee Roth

    "The truth sounds like hate to those who hate the truth" - Todd Wagner

    "Women and Children First ... The REAL Van Halen III"

  5. The Following 2 Members Like This Post:


  6. #4
    Eruption Naked Wake's Avatar
    Join Date
    01.26.09
    Location
    Oakland Ca
    Posts
    1,462
    Favorite VH Album

    Diver Down
    Favorite VH Song

    I'm the One
    Last Online

    09.17.19 @ 05:44 AM
    Likes
    236
    Liked 258 Times in 181 Posts

    Default

    as I mentioned in the MC thread, I'm a fan of "if you bring something to the table, you deserve credit" but I guess it depends on how much is brought and how it impacts the song. I think a lot of bands "jam it out" and so that warrants an equal slice of the pie to me. In the analogy above I think Wendy would be entitled to writing credits if she had that much of an impact on the song. Jimmy Page saying "Give me something in A minor" would warrant a share in the credits. Just sayin'.

    Now, if I came in with the main riff, and that's what makes the song, it's probably fair to say that I deserve the full credit.

  7. #5
    Good Enough CalFB's Avatar
    Join Date
    08.12.13
    Location
    Oz
    Posts
    1,857
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning
    Favorite VH Song

    Girl Gone Bad
    Last Online

    09.17.19 @ 08:20 PM
    Likes
    706
    Liked 1,694 Times in 907 Posts


    Premium Member

    Default

    Barry Manilow, apparently he writes the songs.......
    Most rock journalism is people who can't write, interviewing people who can't talk, for people who can't read. - Frank Zappa

  8. The Following 2 Members Like This Post:


  9. #6
    Atomic Punk Number 47's Avatar
    Join Date
    10.08.06
    Posts
    39,015
    Last Online

    09.17.19 @ 07:29 PM
    Likes
    2,594
    Liked 10,719 Times in 5,891 Posts


    Premium Member

    Default

    Who writes the songs?


  10. #7
    Sinner's Swing!
    Join Date
    03.31.06
    Location
    Atlanta, GA, USA
    Posts
    2,777
    Favorite VH Song

    Hang `em High, I'm the One
    Last Online

    09.17.19 @ 05:40 PM
    Likes
    1,154
    Liked 1,844 Times in 1,053 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by billy007 View Post
    I had mentioned on one hand, I think that any one that brings something to the song when itís first recorded t get credit; but on the other hand it was pointed out that you can strip all that away and take a song down to its original piano or guitar and it is still that song. So just want to get the discussion going again as I think itís a good one.
    Someone who played on the recording might not get songwriting credit, but as a member of the band, which will usually be formed as an LLC, they can still get a contracted amount for each copy of that recording sold. A session player will say, "Give me $500 to play on 'I Heard It Through the Grapevine,' and wherever that song goes after that, my $500 is all I expect." That's called a "work for hire," meaning you sell all rights to your playing on that song for one flat fee. Tommy Lee, as part of Motley Crue, LLC is sharing in the profits, no doubt.

    That's where owning the original recording comes in. Little Richard and James Brown recorded their biggest hits multiple times because someone else would legally own the classic recording, so they'd just do a new version and put it on a new greatest hits. Suicidal Tendencies re-recorded their entire first album because someone else owned the original issue.

    Like a friend of mine who does photography said, in the creative world, there's a lot of room for negotiation.

    I love all this aspect as much as making the music. I wish I had an actual reason to know about it!

  11. #8
    Sinner's Swing!
    Join Date
    03.31.06
    Location
    Atlanta, GA, USA
    Posts
    2,777
    Favorite VH Song

    Hang `em High, I'm the One
    Last Online

    09.17.19 @ 05:40 PM
    Likes
    1,154
    Liked 1,844 Times in 1,053 Posts

    Default

    This is one of the Pete Townshend demos I was talking about. It's Pete on drums, bass, keys and harmonies, and an album-quality mix, also by Pete! What could the rest of the band say? Pete had three of the greatest stylists in the history of the genre to work with, but Pete laid out the framework from start to finish!


  12. The Following 4 Members Like This Post:


  13. #9
    Sinner's Swing!
    Join Date
    03.31.06
    Location
    Atlanta, GA, USA
    Posts
    2,777
    Favorite VH Song

    Hang `em High, I'm the One
    Last Online

    09.17.19 @ 05:40 PM
    Likes
    1,154
    Liked 1,844 Times in 1,053 Posts

    Default

    Another stunning example: Won't Get Fooled Again, the all-Pete version!


  14. The Following 2 Members Like This Post:


  15. #10
    Atomic Punk ziggysmalls's Avatar
    Join Date
    11.24.03
    Location
    Cleveland, Oh
    Posts
    14,901
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning
    Favorite VH Song

    Dance the Night Away
    Last Online

    09.17.19 @ 12:24 PM
    Likes
    3,839
    Liked 6,524 Times in 3,385 Posts

    Default

    I don't think one size fits all for writing. If a song comes organically from just jamming, well sure the band should get writing credit. However if a guitarist has a song demoed and approaches the band and all the drummer and bass player do is embellish, well not so sure they should get equal songwriting. I mean the guitarist simply could have hired a session bass player or drummer, paid them and put them on their way. There is not one size fits all model. If a guitarist or keyboardist has a song prepared, with chord changes and a bass player simply follows those chord changes, well its almost paint by numbers. The key, tempo, time signature, dynamics, etc already set. He just needs to pick said notes from the key and make it fit. Now obviously playing to a jazz composition will require a different amount of involvement than coming up with a bass line to an AC/DC song.

    Anyway I can see why bands split it equally but in time its a bad idea. Usually there are 1 to 2 guys doing more of the work.

  16. The Following Member Likes This Post:


  17. #11
    carpe damn diem billy007's Avatar
    Join Date
    04.19.00
    Age
    55
    Location
    On to Cincinnati...
    Posts
    30,450
    Favorite VH Song

    "Dance The Night Away"
    Last Online

    09.17.19 @ 06:00 PM
    Likes
    1,575
    Liked 2,299 Times in 1,545 Posts

    Default

    I still think that if people are contributing, it's probably better to credit them. This is if they are band members, of course. The rules might be different for contract players. But unless you have a Pete Townshend or Paul McCartney bringing in fully fleshed out demos, then I think the people that add flavour to a song deserve a piece of the credit. Otherwise you end up with situations like the Prince situation above or some Rolling Stones songs where Mick Taylor or even Bill Wyman are claiming they are not getting credit for their ideas; or Mike Love for crying out loud.

  18. #12
    carpe damn diem billy007's Avatar
    Join Date
    04.19.00
    Age
    55
    Location
    On to Cincinnati...
    Posts
    30,450
    Favorite VH Song

    "Dance The Night Away"
    Last Online

    09.17.19 @ 06:00 PM
    Likes
    1,575
    Liked 2,299 Times in 1,545 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CalFB View Post
    Barry Manilow, apparently he writes the songs.......
    Quote Originally Posted by Number 47 View Post
    Who writes the songs?

    I knew I was setting myself up for this when I titled the thread, lol.

  19. #13
    Sinner's Swing! BlindtotheWorld's Avatar
    Join Date
    05.18.09
    Age
    46
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    2,898
    Favorite VH Album

    OU812
    Favorite VH Song

    Romeo Delight/Mine All Mine
    Last Online

    09.17.19 @ 12:22 PM
    Likes
    1,908
    Liked 1,756 Times in 923 Posts


    Premium Member

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ArtyBoy View Post
    Another stunning example: Won't Get Fooled Again, the all-Pete version!
    I knew that Pete was the primary song writer but had no idea to this extent. Wow.
    ]"Problem is Van Halen doesn't miss you. Or me. Or any of us." - Little Dreamer

  20. The Following Member Likes This Post:


  21. #14
    Hang 'Em High noise next door's Avatar
    Join Date
    07.03.03
    Posts
    5,645
    Last Online

    09.17.19 @ 02:32 PM
    Likes
    946
    Liked 3,362 Times in 1,771 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by billy007 View Post
    ...I think the people that add flavour to a song deserve a piece of the credit...
    Doesn't matter what you or I "think" in regards to how it "should" work... It's ALREADY clearly defined in US federal Copyright law how songwriting ownership works legally.

    If you have the talent to create these specific 3 things working together:

    1. Melody (with both pitch shape and rhythmic details)

    2. An accompanying lyric to each note.

    3. An underlying (even BASIC) counterpoint (ie chord progs) beneath those words and melody

    You 100% own the publishing and royalty rights to that song.

    It doesn't matter one bit what guitar riffs get detailed into the final recording. The bass lines don't matter. The drums don't matter. The transition sections don't matter. The arrangement doesn't matter. The guitar solos especially don't matter.

    Whoever builds this specific predefined musical foundation is legally entitled under US law to 100% ownership of the song's monetary future potential.

    Guys like Nikki Sixx and Stephen Pearcy from Ratt are dangerous in their bands because they have this specific 3-pronged skill set that make them pure songwriters and they can claim songwriting credit within their bands fully.

    You can prove ownership with a simple "lead sheet" sent over to the US copyright office in Washington that shows the melody's treble clef info, with rhythm info, with lyrics under each note, and then with a SIMPLE chord designation from bar to bar. No detailed riffs are needed at all.

    100% Pearcy owned:


  22. #15
    Sinner's Swing!
    Join Date
    03.31.06
    Location
    Atlanta, GA, USA
    Posts
    2,777
    Favorite VH Song

    Hang `em High, I'm the One
    Last Online

    09.17.19 @ 05:40 PM
    Likes
    1,154
    Liked 1,844 Times in 1,053 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlindtotheWorld View Post
    I knew that Pete was the primary song writer but had no idea to this extent. Wow.
    I started realizing I could just repost every demo over here, but you should also check out the one for Baba O'Reilly. It may be the best one, possibly even better than the released version. He does some extra interesting parts with the keyboard that are really mesmerizing! I'm under Pete's command!

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. Joseph Gordon-Levitt writes, directs and stars in Don Jon
    By Number 47 in forum VH Fans Meeting Place (Non-Music)
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 05.26.13, 10:29 AM
  2. Iran President Writes to American People
    By voivod in forum VH Fans Meeting Place (Non-Music)
    Replies: 48
    Last Post: 12.05.06, 05:29 PM
  3. Crash Survivor Writes Message in Blood
    By Cabot in forum VH Fans Meeting Place (Non-Music)
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01.29.05, 10:21 PM
  4. Son of Sam writes to the DC sniper
    By Red-Diamond in forum VH Fans Meeting Place (Non-Music)
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 10.23.02, 02:43 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •