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  1. #391
    Sinner's Swing! DFVH5150's Avatar
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    08.19.19 @ 10:47 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisW View Post
    You have a point.

    I edited my post last night to include the following, but since you have only 30 minutes to edit a post, it didn't go through:
    Van Halen's legacy comes from the guitar player. Dave and Sam contributed a lot as the front men but the unbelievable guitar-playing would make VH a legendary band even if all they did was cover polka songs. Dave's 'rock god' image comes in a not-too-distant second. It also helped that this was the dawn of the MTV era where everybody was seeing the same videos at the same time so regional successes were essentially forgotten about, the same way Montrose is basically forgotten about today by everybody except Sammy fans and, to a lesser extent, Van Halen fans.

    Sammy's legacy basically comes from him, but I don't think it's possible to underrate how much ten years in Van Halen contributed to that legacy. The fact that Van Halen didn't fail when he became the front man is on a par with 'winning the lottery' and not easy to explain. Did Sammy's fanbase make up for losing Dave's? Did the guitar player moving to keyboards and ballads make the difference? MTV? People still replace their worn-out records, 8-tracks, cassettes and CD's of the first album, not so much with the Van Hagar albums. That guitar player's first release is arguably the biggest part of Van Halen's legacy.

    Sammy's popularity and legacy can't be defined in simple terms like a couple of diamond-selling albums. People in the music industry knew him. People who went to any hard rock show they could find learned about him. People who liked Van Halen didn't ditch the band. People don't care who started a particular brand of alcohol. I recently learned that the original "Budweiser" was founded in 1245 and it was not one of the major questions of my life. Or party spot, how many people know the history of Las Vegas?

    To the extent it's possible to judge everything equally, I think Van Hagar is ultimately what Sammy will be known for. I'd like to use examples - "not as big as Tom Petty, not even as big as George Thorogood or Peter Frampton" - but those are absolutely subjective. You might see Sammy as more important than Tom Petty, I might see Sammy as less important, and ten other people won't even think of comparing Sammy to Petty.
    Sammy contributed more to rock history than David Lee Roth but he didn't contribute more to Van Halen than Roth did, and neither of them contributed as much as the guitar player.

    There's also the relationship with the fans. We have no idea what it's like to be surrounded by adoring fans for decades, Sammy does and has done very well in that arena. It's not just that it's subjective, it's that the people who know what they're doing in those circumstances don't even speak the same language as those who don't. Sammy does, the rest of Van Halen doesn't. But there's no perfect answer. I definitely think Sammy should have sung more of Dave's songs in concert, but I don't think he did a good job on the ones he did sing. Now multiply that by the people who actually bought tickets and may even have opinions that differ from mine.

    TLDR: Van Halen was and will be bigger than Sammy in the long run, but Sammy has been so phenomenal his entire career that I can't fault anyone for disagreeing, just quibble with the details.
    Good post. A lot of good points.
    Dave
    VH FOREVER!!!!!!!

    Stats:
    BECAME PSYCHO FAN: 12/91
    VAN HALEN W/DAVE: 9x
    VAN HALEN W/SAMMY: 8x
    VAN HALEN W/GARY: 5x
    CHICKENFOOT/THE CIRCLE: 9x
    DAVE SOLO: 13x
    SAMMY SOLO: 15x (W/MONTROSE 1x, @CABO WABO CANTINA 1x)
    GARY/EXTREME/TRIBE OF JUDAH/HURTSMILE: 7x
    MET: Sammy 1x, Dave almost 1x, Gary 2x

  2. #392
    Sinner's Swing! DFVH5150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    The album was released on May 10th, will it show up in the May 18th or the May 25th charts? Just curious.
    Think it's always been the following week.
    Dave
    VH FOREVER!!!!!!!

    Stats:
    BECAME PSYCHO FAN: 12/91
    VAN HALEN W/DAVE: 9x
    VAN HALEN W/SAMMY: 8x
    VAN HALEN W/GARY: 5x
    CHICKENFOOT/THE CIRCLE: 9x
    DAVE SOLO: 13x
    SAMMY SOLO: 15x (W/MONTROSE 1x, @CABO WABO CANTINA 1x)
    GARY/EXTREME/TRIBE OF JUDAH/HURTSMILE: 7x
    MET: Sammy 1x, Dave almost 1x, Gary 2x

  3. #393
    Sinner's Swing! DFVH5150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Dreamer View Post
    True, but work does affect your legacy. In 1985, you would've probably said: Van Halen will always be bigger than Queen, or AC/DC. No sane person would say this in 2019.
    I never thought Queen was bigger than VH--in the U.S.
    Dave
    VH FOREVER!!!!!!!

    Stats:
    BECAME PSYCHO FAN: 12/91
    VAN HALEN W/DAVE: 9x
    VAN HALEN W/SAMMY: 8x
    VAN HALEN W/GARY: 5x
    CHICKENFOOT/THE CIRCLE: 9x
    DAVE SOLO: 13x
    SAMMY SOLO: 15x (W/MONTROSE 1x, @CABO WABO CANTINA 1x)
    GARY/EXTREME/TRIBE OF JUDAH/HURTSMILE: 7x
    MET: Sammy 1x, Dave almost 1x, Gary 2x

  4. #394
    Atomic Punk bklynboy68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFVH5150 View Post
    I never thought Queen was bigger than VH--in the U.S.
    They weren't. They are now.
     "He has a swaggering retro machismo that will give hives to the Steinem cabal" -Camille Paglia on Donald Trump

    "But, fucking with Brook is like fucking with hot shit on and ax handle. You just don't get a grip"-track5

    "Make way for the bad guy"- Tony Montana

    'This hamburger don't need no helper"- David Lee Roth

    "I wish Bon Jovi would've given me a call before he recorded all of his hits, because the lyrics would've been smarter, the melodies would've been much more smashing, and they would've sold a lot fewer records." -David Lee Roth

    "My beef is people thinking Bon Jovi is good cuz they sold lots of records to housewives." -tango

    "But being number one doesn’t really mean jack fuck all. We sold twice as many records as other records that year (1984) that landed in the Number One position." ~Eddie Van Halen

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  6. #395
    Forum Frontman fudd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFVH5150 View Post
    I never thought Queen was bigger than VH--in the U.S.
    Queen is a world band kinda like U2.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  7. #396
    Sinner's Swing! DFVH5150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bklynboy68 View Post
    They weren't. They are now.
    Since that flick, yeah they seem to be for the time-being.
    Dave
    VH FOREVER!!!!!!!

    Stats:
    BECAME PSYCHO FAN: 12/91
    VAN HALEN W/DAVE: 9x
    VAN HALEN W/SAMMY: 8x
    VAN HALEN W/GARY: 5x
    CHICKENFOOT/THE CIRCLE: 9x
    DAVE SOLO: 13x
    SAMMY SOLO: 15x (W/MONTROSE 1x, @CABO WABO CANTINA 1x)
    GARY/EXTREME/TRIBE OF JUDAH/HURTSMILE: 7x
    MET: Sammy 1x, Dave almost 1x, Gary 2x

  8. #397
    Sinner's Swing! DFVH5150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fudd View Post
    Queen is a world band kinda like U2.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Yeah that's what I'm saying. One could argue they're still Top 5 or 10 most popular in the US hard rock category but God knows where they rank internationally. Under Kiss I'm sure!
    Dave
    VH FOREVER!!!!!!!

    Stats:
    BECAME PSYCHO FAN: 12/91
    VAN HALEN W/DAVE: 9x
    VAN HALEN W/SAMMY: 8x
    VAN HALEN W/GARY: 5x
    CHICKENFOOT/THE CIRCLE: 9x
    DAVE SOLO: 13x
    SAMMY SOLO: 15x (W/MONTROSE 1x, @CABO WABO CANTINA 1x)
    GARY/EXTREME/TRIBE OF JUDAH/HURTSMILE: 7x
    MET: Sammy 1x, Dave almost 1x, Gary 2x

  9. #398
    Banned! VH1988's Avatar
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    Queen have been bigger in the US than VH since the late 90s.

    Now they’re WAY bigger.

  10. #399
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fudd View Post
    Queen is a world band kinda like U2.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I never appreciated how big Queen was until i went to Italy in the late 80s.

    Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

  11. #400
    Forum Frontman fudd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    I never appreciated how big Queen was until i went to Italy in the late 80s.

    Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
    Queen is easily one of the biggest bands ever.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  12. #401
    Atomic Punk Van Squalen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFVH5150 View Post
    Since that flick, yeah they seem to be for the time-being.
    No, long before that flick.

    There’s no time being either. They are beloved.

  13. #402
    Atomic Punk bklynboy68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fudd View Post
    Queen is easily one of the biggest bands ever.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Wayne's World began their renaissance in the states.
     "He has a swaggering retro machismo that will give hives to the Steinem cabal" -Camille Paglia on Donald Trump

    "But, fucking with Brook is like fucking with hot shit on and ax handle. You just don't get a grip"-track5

    "Make way for the bad guy"- Tony Montana

    'This hamburger don't need no helper"- David Lee Roth

    "I wish Bon Jovi would've given me a call before he recorded all of his hits, because the lyrics would've been smarter, the melodies would've been much more smashing, and they would've sold a lot fewer records." -David Lee Roth

    "My beef is people thinking Bon Jovi is good cuz they sold lots of records to housewives." -tango

    "But being number one doesn’t really mean jack fuck all. We sold twice as many records as other records that year (1984) that landed in the Number One position." ~Eddie Van Halen

  14. #403
    Banned! VH1988's Avatar
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    “Sammy Hagar & The Circle’s Space Between debuts at No. 4, granting Hagar his first top 10 album ever. The set opens with 40,000 equivalent albums units earned. The sizable sales week was mostly powered by sales generated from a concert ticket/album sale redemption offer for the rocker’s tour that started in April. The sales start also marks Hagar’s third-largest sales week since Nielsen Music began tracking data in 1991.”

    And I was laughed at for saying it would go top 5.

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  16. #404
    Emperor of VHLinks.com Brett's Avatar
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    40,000 is good for for #4? Man the music industry is dead.
    Webmaster
    VHLinks.com - Your Van Halen Internet Resource Guide
    http://www.vhlinks.com

    JamToThis.com
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    Tons of Van Halen!

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  18. #405
    Atomic Punk Van Squalen's Avatar
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    Unit sales are meaningless these days.

    99% of people go to concerts without bothering to listen to the artists' new music first. True for all bands, not just the Circle. Been true since the 90's. Most people just don't care about new tunes from old school artists.

 

 

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