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  1. #166
    Gird your loins Daisy Hill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett View Post
    What’s really dumb is had they just agreed to donate $500,000 to USC legitimately, they probably would’ve gotten their kids in without breaking the law. Makes no sense.
    But they wanted the guarantee They did not want to spend that kind of money without knowing that it was going to get the result they wanted. Didn't they donate $250,000 for the first girl then a second $250,000 for the second? Maybe they thought that $250K wasn't enough to stand out in a town like LA where huge donations get made all the time.

    So they wanted the guarantee and so paid a middle man, to me that is proof that they knew it was a bribe. Like you said, a legit donation could easily be made directly.

  2. #167
    Gird your loins Daisy Hill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    Two things can be true at the same time. This can be an upsetting display of dishonesty by some wealthy people.

    But the charges filed against them, we should realize what they actually mean. If you or I paid a security guard at a concert $100 to get backstage, and for whatever reason we didn’t use cash and mailed or electronically transferred the money, we’d be guilty of the same exact charges Loughlin and Huffman are.

    Obviously they look at it worse the more money involved, but I’m not certain throwing the book at these people is the right call.


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    well I think you also have to acknowledge the value of what you are getting in the exchange. In your scenario you get backstage. What is the value of that? But in the case of these people, regardless of the fact that they would be paying tuition, the value of the exchange is much much higher.

    In your scenario, there isn't really a victim. But in the case of these college admission bribes, it can be assumed that if these kids were not going to get in, some other kids would have taken those places.

    Then you have to look at the public impact. You get backstage or a better table at a restaurant, and what is the public impact of that?

    You rig the college admissions process and the publics trust in the process is impacted.

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  4. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daisy Hill View Post
    well I think you also have to acknowledge the value of what you are getting in the exchange. In your scenario you get backstage. What is the value of that? But in the case of these people, regardless of the fact that they would be paying tuition, the value of the exchange is much much higher.

    In your scenario, there isn't really a victim. But in the case of these college admission bribes, it can be assumed that if these kids were not going to get in, some other kids would have taken those places.

    Then you have to look at the public impact. You get backstage or a better table at a restaurant, and what is the public impact of that?

    You rig the college admissions process and the publics trust in the process is impacted.
    Iím simply looking at what they have been charged with, since we all agree that if theyíd just paid the school directly, thatíd be totally legal.

    People have been convicted of these charges for way less. Letís take the example of students working in cahoots with a professor to submit a plagiarized dissertation. Deceitful? Yes. Dishonest? Yes. Upsetting? As someone in education, yes. Does it devalue the PhDs they give our? Sure.

    Felony with jail time? Öthatís where I get a little squeamish. Even this scandal, kick the kids out, Fire the school employees, and if people want to civilly sue for damages like a value decrease in their education, sure.

    This is a case of celebrities slipping on banana peels and we all want to laugh. But when we start talking about years in prison versus the actual statutes theyíve been indicted onÖwe should be careful. Because regular people get caught in these statutes all the time.


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  5. #169
    Emperor of VHLinks.com Brett's Avatar
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    Most of the people indicted were just regular people. They just had lots of money but they werenít celebrities. And they all deserve jail time. Sorry. They do.
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  6. #170
    Emperor of VHLinks.com Brett's Avatar
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    Default Felicity Huffman, Lori Loughlin, dozens arrested in college entrance cheating scam

    Daisy I am pretty confident that if someone gave a $500,000 donation to USC that would be enough to get their children in. Thatís a huge donation even for SC. Plus theyíd be paying tuition for two kids for four years which is another 500k. So Iím pretty sure $1 million is enough to get two kids into USC.

    I donít know if you guys know this and Iím sure the number is probably even higher now than when I went there. When I went there 60% of the school was on some sort of financial aid which means if people could pay full tuition it was easier to get in. I had a friend and he did not have the greatest grades, but he got in because he was not going to need aid. I donít know that for a fact but my feeling is that played a big part in it. His family also knew somebody who was a professor there but I donít think that played into it nearly as much. Believe me USC wants the money.
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  7. #171
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    Default Felicity Huffman, Lori Loughlin, dozens arrested in college entrance cheating scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Brett View Post
    Most of the people indicted were just regular people. They just had lots of money but they werenít celebrities. And they all deserve jail time. Sorry. They do.
    Like I said, not defending their actions. Actions can be dishonest and shitty without deserving jail time. But the law theyíre being charged with breaking wasnít even intended by Congress to apply to civilians. And like Antonin Scalia wrote, itís so vague that calling in sick to go to Medieval Times would mean youíre just as guilty of honest services fraud. I called in sick once to go to Disneyland. I donít think that should be a felony with jail time, but perhaps Iím in the minority.

    I started off just as disgusted. And I figured there must be some major laws they broke. Then I saw what they were charged with. Theyíre not great laws, at minimum.


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  8. #172
    Emperor of VHLinks.com Brett's Avatar
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    Default Felicity Huffman, Lori Loughlin, dozens arrested in college entrance cheating scam

    Your comparison is in no way the same thing dude. Thatís really a stretch.

    Why would you be less disgusted because youíre not happy with the laws that they broke?
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  9. #173
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    Default Felicity Huffman, Lori Loughlin, dozens arrested in college entrance cheating scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Brett View Post
    Your comparison is in no way the same thing dude. Thatís really a stretch.

    Why would you be less disgusted because youíre not happy with the laws that they broke?
    In the same way I can be disgusted with all kinds of behavior that isnít illegal. Take NBA fans who shout obnoxious things at players, like making fun of Derek Fisherís daughterís cancer or racist or anti-gay insults, for example.

    And Iím not making outrageous comparisons. The money and prestige changes but the principle doesnít. If you slip a host at Cheesecake Factory $20 so your wait is 5 minutes instead of 60, youíve just bribed an employee and violated the restaurantís right to the honest services of that host. The only difference here is how it was paid, through the mail or electronically instead of cash.

    So letís take one example: should a student who, in cahoots with their professor, gets a PhD using plagiarized material be a felon who serves jail time? I say no. Revoke their degree, Fire the professor.

    The point here is that things arenít black and white, not every despicable act needs to be illegal, making a a point with these celebrities and rich people would only strengthen these catch-all laws, and itís going to come back and bite not rich-not celebrity people in the ass and we will never hear of it.

    Especially when, again, the law was never meant to apply to people it working as a government official.




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    Last edited by lovemachine97(Version 2); 03.17.19 at 07:03 AM.

  10. #174
    Gird your loins Daisy Hill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett View Post
    Daisy I am pretty confident that if someone gave a $500,000 donation to USC that would be enough to get their children in. Thatís a huge donation even for SC. Plus theyíd be paying tuition for two kids for four years which is another 500k. So Iím pretty sure $1 million is enough to get two kids into USC.

    I donít know if you guys know this and Iím sure the number is probably even higher now than when I went there. When I went there 60% of the school was on some sort of financial aid which means if people could pay full tuition it was easier to get in. I had a friend and he did not have the greatest grades, but he got in because he was not going to need aid. I donít know that for a fact but my feeling is that played a big part in it. His family also knew somebody who was a professor there but I donít think that played into it nearly as much. Believe me USC wants the money.
    My understanding was that $250000 was a couple of years ago with another $250,000 this past year for the younger daughter

    A $250,000 donation won't even get your name on a building at the University of Toledo, but they's pretty much open their doors to anyone in the family.....oh wait, they do that there anyway. LOL I don't know how much pull it would have at USC, but the idea that they needed the crew team recruitment as well, led me to believe that they didn't think a donation of that size would be enough to get them in on the basis of the donation alone.

  11. #175
    Emperor of VHLinks.com Brett's Avatar
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    Default Felicity Huffman, Lori Loughlin, dozens arrested in college entrance cheating scam

    No but had they donated the 500K at once because they knew they were going to pay it twice anyway, it wouldíve gone a long way trust me. In any event, itís not illegal.
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  12. #176
    Gird your loins Daisy Hill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett View Post
    No but had they donated the 500K at once because they knew they were going to pay it twice anyway, it would’ve gone a long way trust me. In any event, it’s not illegal.
    To me that is the irony. They could have publicly donated a bunch of money directly. Had their publicists do a real number on getting them known as major philanthropists, used their daughters connection to that guy on the board of trustees as a reference and maybe accomplished what they wanted in getting the daughters in.

    This was just stupid. They wanted the sure thing. And I have to think it was the SInger guy in their ear telling them that they needed him to make this whole thing work and now they are implicated criminally, publicly humiliated, career damaged and pariahs in their community

    From hero to zero.

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  14. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daisy Hill View Post
    This was just stupid. They wanted the sure thing. And I have to think it was the SInger guy in their ear telling them that they needed him to make this whole thing work and now they are implicated criminally, publicly humiliated, career damaged and pariahs in their community

    From hero to zero.
    I believe the Singer guy was so convincing that no one worried about the consequences. For instance, this snippet was taken from a co-chairman of an international law firm based in New York and supposedly Singer:

    CAPLAN: Yeah, I, I hear ya. Itís just, to be honest, Iím not worried about the moral issue here. Iím worried about the, if sheís caught doing that, you know, sheís finished. So I, I just--

    CW-1 Itís never happened before in twenty-some-odd years. The only way anything can happen is if she--

    CAPLAN: Someone talks--

    And someone talked...

  15. #178
    Gird your loins Daisy Hill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAD-1972 View Post
    I believe the Singer guy was so convincing that no one worried about the consequences. For instance, this snippet was taken from a co-chairman of an international law firm based in New York and supposedly Singer:

    CAPLAN: Yeah, I, I hear ya. It’s just, to be honest, I’m not worried about the moral issue here. I’m worried about the, if she’s caught doing that, you know, she’s finished. So I, I just--

    CW-1 It’s never happened before in twenty-some-odd years. The only way anything can happen is if she--

    CAPLAN: Someone talks--

    And someone talked...
    And it was SINGER himself singing in order to save himself! Moral of the story, if you are going to do a shady deal make sure that you are always in a position where you have more dirt on your co conspirators than they have on you. You gotta keep the pimp hand strong

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