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  1. #16
    Good Enough pickslide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wruff_ajax View Post
    If aliens do exist then I think maybe there's a glass ceiling in regard to interstellar travel and that the distances between the stars is just too great, 'cause while I've studied the subject quite a lot and have seen some very interesting unexplained cases I have still never seen reasonably definitive proof that we have been/are being visited.
    I cannot say with confidence one way or the other, but I'm leaning these days towards our being all alone out here, and possibly alone in the universe.
    So maybe our earth is a total anomaly. Yeah, seems like a lot of wasted space then, but we do not know the mind of God where distances of space and time are no obstacle whatsoever. It's impossible for us to wrap our embodied and temporal minds around that.

    There could be life all over the universe for all we know. In fact, it's entirely likely. But the assumption that this life is in any way humanoid is more based in wish fulfillment than anything else. We like to think we are the masters of this planet, but we really just a single species in a fairly successful family of creatures that has no hope of ever getting out of the jungle, much less going to space. There is no necessity that life on another planet be anything like us. In fact, it's virtually guaranteed it's not. Even on our own planet, the REAL master is bacteria. We see evolution as a continuum to the smartest, most creative being. But the wider view tells a different tale.

    So life on other planets may just be sludge. It may be algal mats with no predators and little need to adapt. The smartest creature in the next galaxy may be an armless, sloth-like creature that filters bacteria through its inordinately long proboscus and whose brain is a light-sensitive pimple on its back that tells it when to start slurping again.

    TK

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  3. #17
    Atomic Punk Van Squalen's Avatar
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    Haha. Those little gray guys exist. It's been proven. Just not for common public knowledge. Like much of the knowledge that would challenge conventional modern Western society. What exact kind of life they are, and to what motives and perceptions they adhere to, only a few on this planet know.

  4. #18
    Atomic Punk Wruff_ajax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pickslide View Post
    There could be life all over the universe for all we know. In fact, it's entirely likely. But the assumption that this life is in any way humanoid is more based in wish fulfillment than anything else. We like to think we are the masters of this planet, but we really just a single species in a fairly successful family of creatures that has no hope of ever getting out of the jungle, much less going to space. There is no necessity that life on another planet be anything like us. In fact, it's virtually guaranteed it's not. Even on our own planet, the REAL master is bacteria. We see evolution as a continuum to the smartest, most creative being. But the wider view tells a different tale.

    So life on other planets may just be sludge. It may be algal mats with no predators and little need to adapt. The smartest creature in the next galaxy may be an armless, sloth-like creature that filters bacteria through its inordinately long proboscus and whose brain is a light-sensitive pimple on its back that tells it when to start slurping again.

    TK
    Yep.

    Or maybe it's one of those Things!
    ☩ ☩ ☩

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  6. #19
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
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    I don't necessarily buy in to aliens as visiting the planet on a regular basis, but I at least leave open the possibility that it could and has happened.

    As for life appearing different, sure that could be the case. After all, there's no rule that says life has to evolve to look humanoid to be intelligent. However, there are some pre-requisites for some things. Any advanced technological life would need to be able to manipulate objects to improve their situation and surroundings. They would need a way to interpret their surroundings and differentiate between not just predator and prey, but also materials. On earth, binocular sight has evolved multiple times in life as the most reliable and efficient means of doing so. This is basically the idea of convergent evolution where similar traits have evolved on earth multiple times to suit the environment.

    Beyond that, their environment would likely be roughly similar to earth in that an underwater civilization can't create fire to fuel their inventions, modify their materials, etc. They would also need to be on a planet where escaping gravity is possible, meaning it can't be a world much larger than Earth as chemical reactions wouldn't be sufficient enough to escape the gravitational pull of the planet.

    These are just a few of the constraining factors, but there are a number of them that would basically make humanoid (or at least relatively earth-like) life the most likely for us to come in intelligent contact with. I think most scientists agree that our first real contact with ET will be with a microbe, though, not with an intelligent one.

    When it comes to why haven't we been visited, the simple fact of the matter is that we are insignificant, not just in terms of our abilities, but also what we have to offer. If aliens have the technology to move beyond their own star system in their lifetimes, they have achieved a technological ability to travel anywhere at anytime, which means location no longer matters. If they need more of something, it's far easier to grab liquid water from something nearby like a moon or even comets. Think Europa and Enceladus. We'd go there first before we traveled to the next star with a liquid surface ocean.

    My personal thought on the Fermi Paradox is that once an intelligent civilization is able to create their own experience to suit their needs, there's no longer a reason to go out into the universe. If we could all plug into a machine that creates paradise for us eternally, why would you do anything else (the opposite of the Matrix)? One can assume that technology would be available to any civilization powerful enough to jump between the stars.
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

  7. #20
    Atomic Punk Van Squalen's Avatar
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    We've already had plenty of contact with ETs lol. Too many credible reports and witnesses for it not to be true. We've been visited plenty.

    Again, the question remains...why not just take the place from us? We're insignificant, sure, as a minor barely sentient fledgling species to the cosmos. But the planet itself shouldn't be. It's a rare ecosystem..different than Europa or any other Jupiter moon.

  8. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsbll4 View Post
    I don't necessarily buy in to aliens as visiting the planet on a regular basis, but I at least leave open the possibility that it could and has happened.

    As for life appearing different, sure that could be the case. After all, there's no rule that says life has to evolve to look humanoid to be intelligent. However, there are some pre-requisites for some things. Any advanced technological life would need to be able to manipulate objects to improve their situation and surroundings. They would need a way to interpret their surroundings and differentiate between not just predator and prey, but also materials. On earth, binocular sight has evolved multiple times in life as the most reliable and efficient means of doing so. This is basically the idea of convergent evolution where similar traits have evolved on earth multiple times to suit the environment.

    Beyond that, their environment would likely be roughly similar to earth in that an underwater civilization can't create fire to fuel their inventions, modify their materials, etc. They would also need to be on a planet where escaping gravity is possible, meaning it can't be a world much larger than Earth as chemical reactions wouldn't be sufficient enough to escape the gravitational pull of the planet.

    These are just a few of the constraining factors, but there are a number of them that would basically make humanoid (or at least relatively earth-like) life the most likely for us to come in intelligent contact with. I think most scientists agree that our first real contact with ET will be with a microbe, though, not with an intelligent one.

    When it comes to why haven't we been visited, the simple fact of the matter is that we are insignificant, not just in terms of our abilities, but also what we have to offer. If aliens have the technology to move beyond their own star system in their lifetimes, they have achieved a technological ability to travel anywhere at anytime, which means location no longer matters. If they need more of something, it's far easier to grab liquid water from something nearby like a moon or even comets. Think Europa and Enceladus. We'd go there first before we traveled to the next star with a liquid surface ocean.

    My personal thought on the Fermi Paradox is that once an intelligent civilization is able to create their own experience to suit their needs, there's no longer a reason to go out into the universe. If we could all plug into a machine that creates paradise for us eternally, why would you do anything else (the opposite of the Matrix)? One can assume that technology would be available to any civilization powerful enough to jump between the stars.
    Would the Fermi Paradox enable Chris to get a good blowjob? That is a priority here today, Sally Struthers is filming a fund raise commercial as we speak. It would great if we could send her home and turn it over to this paradox. She is killing us in catering costs today.

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  10. #22
    Atomic Punk ziggysmalls's Avatar
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    I believe that some government is in possession of an alien body or craft

    I don't believe that Hitler shot himself

    I also like some songs on VH3

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  12. #23
    Hang 'Em High Harpospoke's Avatar
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    Once I do some research and start to believe something...it stops being "crazy". So it's a trick question.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    A big one of mine is cures.

    I believe there are real medical cures that are purposely being denied to people.
    I would be more willing to admit that if rich people didn't keep dying from things like cancer. A cure for cancer would make someone incredibly rich in a hurry. Difficult to believe someone or even worse...a company...would forgo all that money to keep it secret.

    Quote Originally Posted by pickslide View Post
    There could be life all over the universe for all we know. In fact, it's entirely likely. But the assumption that this life is in any way humanoid is more based in wish fulfillment than anything else. We like to think we are the masters of this planet, but we really just a single species in a fairly successful family of creatures that has no hope of ever getting out of the jungle, much less going to space. There is no necessity that life on another planet be anything like us. In fact, it's virtually guaranteed it's not. Even on our own planet, the REAL master is bacteria. We see evolution as a continuum to the smartest, most creative being. But the wider view tells a different tale.

    So life on other planets may just be sludge. It may be algal mats with no predators and little need to adapt. The smartest creature in the next galaxy may be an armless, sloth-like creature that filters bacteria through its inordinately long proboscus and whose brain is a light-sensitive pimple on its back that tells it when to start slurping again.

    TK
    That's my kind of thinking.

    That video above was interesting. But it had a huge flaw. It starts with the premise of all life in the universe being similar to Earth life. He talked about finding planets in a similar orbit as Earth. That's pretty arrogant. If you only look for Earth life, you will only find it on Earth. We've watched too much Star Trek where all the aliens just happen to look like humans with weird foreheads. (though Star Trek explained why that is in one of the movies)

    Of course life on this planet requires the conditions present on this planet! What else would you expect? Water covers 70% of the surface...what else would you expect here except life that depends on water?

    Of course life that evolved on a different planet would require the conditions of that planet. How could it be any other way? Life on a gas giant would be completely unlike Earth life.

    I found it funny the other day while watching a video about life at the bottom of the ocean near volcanic gas vents. Life isn't supposed to exist there. It's "too hot" "too much pressure"...blah blah blah. So life on Earth itself breaks the "rules".

    Some use the lack of communication with other life as evidence it doesn't exist. That seems arrogant too. We can't even communicate with other species on our OWN PLANET. About the closest we get is with our dogs and that's just barely communication.

    Why would we expect alien species to have any form of communication anything close to ours? It could be all around us every day and we would never know it was here. An alien race in other parts of the galaxy would say the same about us. "We've never heard from them so they don't exist". Our pitiful radio transmissions might not even register with them. That's actually probable.

    Life seems inevitable. We've had at least 2 mass extinctions on this planet and life bounced back each time and evolved to match the new conditions. We are a great example of how life works.

    ----------------

    Best arguments I've heard is that the universe is so vast that two lifeforms encountering each other is highly unlikely. A race that developed interstellar space travel could have come and gone millions of years ago too. The universe is so old that races of beings could come into existence and then vanish long before we arose here.

    Add all that in with the probably dramatic differences in our design and it's pretty unlikely we would ever be able to detect or communicate with other "intelligent life" (again we use our definition of what that means on Earth).

    ----------------

    If those Roswell aliens are real, that would be great evidence for Intelligent Design. They had arms, legs, eyes, and mouths? Hmmmm...pretty coincidental don't you think? The only plausible way for us to be so similar in design is if they created life on this planet.

  13. #24
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    I don't believe in much of this stuff but I wouldn't be shocked to find out we're not alone.

  14. #25
    Atomic Punk Van Squalen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziggysmalls View Post

    I also like some songs on VH3
    That is some crazy shit.

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  16. #26
    Baluchitherium
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    A big one of mine is cures.

    I believe there are real medical cures that are purposely being denied to people.
    Yup...much more profitable for pharma to treat patients then it is to cure them.....
    Winners come and go; legends are forever.

  17. #27
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Van Squalen View Post
    We've already had plenty of contact with ETs lol. Too many credible reports and witnesses for it not to be true. We've been visited plenty.

    Again, the question remains...why not just take the place from us? We're insignificant, sure, as a minor barely sentient fledgling species to the cosmos. But the planet itself shouldn't be. It's a rare ecosystem..different than Europa or any other Jupiter moon.
    Because assuming an alien civilization has the technology capable of bringing themselves here, they could just as easily travel to any other environment where the resources they need are in abundance. It's like if I offered you a doughnut, but gave you two options on the table in front of you. One option is just a doughnut ready for you to take and enjoy, the other is buried under a bunch of stuff and isn't even fully cooked yet. Which one would you take?

    There's nothing to say that our world would be hospitable to them anyway. Heck, our planet wouldn't be hospitable to us for most of its history.
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

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  19. #28
    Atomic Punk Nostalgia Act's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    A big one of mine is cures.

    I believe there are real medical cures that are purposely being denied to people.
    Of course there are. Too many parasites on one host.
    Utilize. Improvise. Adapt. Overcome.

    I love coffee and sarcasm.

    RJD \m/


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  20. #29
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott View Post
    Yup...much more profitable for pharma to treat patients then it is to cure them.....
    So the theory is that scientists who go to school with the desire to cure cancer...are faking it? Do they knock off the people that discover the cures and scrub their research from public papers? What about the public funding for it?

    I know we all hate nameless, faceless "big pharma," but the reality is that we just haven't found a reliable cure for most cancers. It's a bitch to solve.
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

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  22. #30
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    I would have thought by now in the 21st century, there would be a cure for the common cold or the flu.

    Need those flu shots and how irresponsible of me for not getting one.

    Those flu shot advocates are annoyingly militant aren't they? Like you slapped their momma by not getting one or being against them.

 

 

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