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  1. #31
    Good Enough pickslide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsbll4 View Post
    I'm extremely skeptical of all things ghosts. This is one of those things that I would absolutely have to see to believe, and even then I would exhaust all possible explanations before I would make that leap. I have a very difficult time believing that our spirit takes on a bodily form and can actually effect objects by interacting with them. If that was the case, why don't evil spirits just pick up a knife and stab people? Why is it just nudging crap off shelves? Why don't they set fire to your hair? Why haven't they revealed to us living beings exactly what the afterlife is like?

    There's no scientific explanation for the possibilities of ghosts which is where it loses me. There's so much pseudoscience that's perpetrated by the people that claim to be experts in the field that it's almost impossible to take it seriously as a discipline. Then again, you see the same thing in the UFO community, but I'm far more likely to believe in UFO's than I am in ghosts.

    I'd like to believe in ghosts because it would answer the ultimate question of whether there is, in fact, life of some sort after death, but based on what I've seen, I'm not there yet.
    Exactly. I've heard a million of these stories. They're all creepy and interesting. But are they REAL? Occam's Razor would suggest no. The simplest explanation is usually the most likely, and this simple explanation is very unlikely to be that the spirit of a dead person punctured the space-time continuum to knock over a picture, or to moan repetitive phrases in the dead of night, or to stand enigmatically in some hard-to-see dark place.

    Do people see/experience things that can't be explained? Of course they do. But the answer is embedded in the question: "can't be explained." Well, what else could it be, you say. And to that, I offer the only truly defensible answer: I don't know and neither do you.

    Throughout human history it has been fairly easy to convince even large groups of humans to fight and die for gods that do not exist, to worship men and women as gods themselves, to believe the predictions of oracles and madmen, to drink kool-aid laced with poison, to murder those of another race, to see witches where there are only outcast and disenfranchised women, and on and on and on.

    The human brain is a belief engine, and when it can't find a pattern, it is known definitively to create one.

    TK

  2. #32
    Atomic Punk ziggysmalls's Avatar
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    Yes and as I said before when two people who are sober see something appear and disappear at the top of the stairs then what the fuck is it? How can we both be having a simultaneous hallucination of the same person? I mean what is the logical explanation for that? Especially when 5 minutes after seeing said spirit, we are given a photograph of the same spirit that was taken in 1910 or so?

    I mean yes I understand that some stuff can be explained by your mind playing tricks. I have given myself a fake heart attack with anxiety so yes I am sure that I can imagine something.

    Like I said before maybe what people see as spirits are just beings from a multiverse crossing over or something? I don't know but everything I have seen, I have vetted. I mean when 6 guys are sitting in a room with two Ouija boards and one planchette knocks another off so both of them are on the floor about 6 feet away, how does one explain one of them on its back started to move by itself? I mean nobody is within 6 feet and a planchette moves about a foot on shag carpeting with no strings, motors, etc. Just 6 freaked out guys.

    I mean a story like this one I failed to tell could be with my subconscience. I had a grandmother from marriage 1. Loved her more than any of my grandparents but when I got divorced was told me being around her was too much for her. She really loved me as well. We had amazing conversations. Actually would get anxiety attacks and was put into the hospital once. Made me mad to be told by her daughter and my ex to never see her again. I did respect the wishes though for several years and eventually just came to grips about it. Still thought about her from time to time but over the years that occurred less and less. It did weigh on me that she could die and not really know why I never came around. However life goes on.

    Then a few months ago I have a dream where she is in it. Never had a dream with her in it before. Had not been thinking of her for months so it wasn't like I talked about her the day prior. Anyway I was able to tell her in my dream that I was sorry for not seeing her and she said it was ok. She understood and forgave me. I woke up and felt a bit better because of the conversation she had. Gave me a different perspective. Anyway that was that. Then the following day my former brother in law emailed me telling me she passed the night I had the dream.

    Sure it could have been coincidence. I get that but it did make me feel a hell of a lot better because honestly I do believe I had a chance to make my peace. Maybe it was just a dream but honestly have not had anything close to that with regards to a lucid conversation.

  3. #33
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    To me it's not even debatable. Ghosts/spirits have been captured on camera and photos.

    Human history is rife with evidence. Jesus himself, cast out demons from out of people.

    I don't see how people could believe in God who they've never seen but just feel his presnce but spirits are out of the question?

  4. #34
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    To me it's not even debatable. Ghosts/spirits have been captured on camera and photos.

    Human history is rife with evidence. Jesus himself, cast out demons from out of people.

    I don't see how people could believe in God who they've never seen but just feel his presnce but spirits are out of the question?
    When Jesus starts dimming the lights in my house when I say a curse word and knocking my smut magazines off the shelf, then we're comparing apples to apples.
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

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  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsbll4 View Post
    When Jesus starts dimming the lights in my house when I say a curse word and knocking my smut magazines off the shelf, then we're comparing apples to apples.
    It's not apple's to apples. If one believes in an afterlife with no proof and solely on faith...then there should be no doubt about ghosts, which there is much more documented evidence, right?

  7. #36
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    Ghosts are souls that are lost or stubborn or feel like they’re not ready for the next world.

    You’d think the next level would have intervention counselors for that.

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Van Squalen View Post
    Ghosts are souls that are lost or stubborn or feel like they’re not ready for the next world.
    In all seriousness...I believe that.

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziggysmalls View Post
    Well with regards to it being inconsistent, well you are talking about something that there is no definitive proof. Just like love. How many people out there say they love something. How do you quantify it? How do you measure it? Sure there are chemical reactions but I don't think science can prove anything with it. I mean can they definitively tell you why you love something? No. They can make suggestions like they do with sleep. They can't explain why mammals require sleep definitively yet every mammal needs to sleep or they eventually die. They have theories and that's really no different than anybody talking about ghosts or spirits.

    Regarding evidence well what about UFO's? I mean we don't have anything that shows green men walking out of space craft but most people believe in life on other planets. I would say most people believe that "some" UFO's are not of this earth yet all we have are suspect recordings and photos.

    That said understand why one doesn't believe but if you have seen what I have seen, you would believe.
    It seems you misunderstand me as my main point wasn't a lack of proof but that there's too man inconsistencies about what ghosts are. Like I said, one minute they're recordings trapped in time, playing over and over, the next they're chatting to people and making eye contact. Either way, they're remnants of living people but then we have ghost inanimate objects as well. Where's the consistency? If a ghost is souls and what not then why are there ghost trains? Why can some ghosts see you and others are just a looping playback?

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    Ghosts/hauntings exist.

    The reason somebody would say they don't is because of anti-religious beliefs usually.
    Believing in God doesn't mean you believe in every fairytale. Conversely, I'm atheist and yet I believed in ghosts at one point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlofeldsCat View Post
    Believing in God doesn't mean you believe in every fairytale. Conversely, I'm atheist and yet I believed in ghosts at one point.
    So what happened? Surely the evidence is there, right?

  12. #41
    Atomic Punk Get The Show On The Road's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziggysmalls View Post
    Yes and as I said before when two people who are sober see something appear and disappear at the top of the stairs then what the fuck is it? How can we both be having a simultaneous hallucination of the same person? I mean what is the logical explanation for that? Especially when 5 minutes after seeing said spirit, we are given a photograph of the same spirit that was taken in 1910 or so?

    I mean yes I understand that some stuff can be explained by your mind playing tricks. I have given myself a fake heart attack with anxiety so yes I am sure that I can imagine something.

    Like I said before maybe what people see as spirits are just beings from a multiverse crossing over or something? I don't know but everything I have seen, I have vetted. I mean when 6 guys are sitting in a room with two Ouija boards and one planchette knocks another off so both of them are on the floor about 6 feet away, how does one explain one of them on its back started to move by itself? I mean nobody is within 6 feet and a planchette moves about a foot on shag carpeting with no strings, motors, etc. Just 6 freaked out guys.

    I mean a story like this one I failed to tell could be with my subconscience. I had a grandmother from marriage 1. Loved her more than any of my grandparents but when I got divorced was told me being around her was too much for her. She really loved me as well. We had amazing conversations. Actually would get anxiety attacks and was put into the hospital once. Made me mad to be told by her daughter and my ex to never see her again. I did respect the wishes though for several years and eventually just came to grips about it. Still thought about her from time to time but over the years that occurred less and less. It did weigh on me that she could die and not really know why I never came around. However life goes on.

    Then a few months ago I have a dream where she is in it. Never had a dream with her in it before. Had not been thinking of her for months so it wasn't like I talked about her the day prior. Anyway I was able to tell her in my dream that I was sorry for not seeing her and she said it was ok. She understood and forgave me. I woke up and felt a bit better because of the conversation she had. Gave me a different perspective. Anyway that was that. Then the following day my former brother in law emailed me telling me she passed the night I had the dream.

    Sure it could have been coincidence. I get that but it did make me feel a hell of a lot better because honestly I do believe I had a chance to make my peace. Maybe it was just a dream but honestly have not had anything close to that with regards to a lucid conversation.
    The only genre I really know is Van Halen.

  13. #42
    Atomic Punk Van Squalen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    In all seriousness...I believe that.
    I’m dead serious. No pun intended. I’ve met a few ghosts in my time. For realz. They’re stuck between worlds. Usually exclusively self imposed.

  14. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    To me it's not even debatable. Ghosts/spirits have been captured on camera and photos.
    Except there isn't. Photos have been faked ever since they came into existence and one of the most famous photos - of fairies dancing with two girls - was only debunked in the 90s, such was it's seeming truthfulness.What's left has been grainy, overexposed and inconclusive such as CCTV of an ornament falling over. Whenever cameras and scientific equipment have entered the equasion, the activities cease (surprise, surprise). No chairs levitating across a room or ghosts manifesting and reaching out to someone or walking through walls despite numerous anecdotes claiming to have seen such.


    Human history is rife with evidence. Jesus himself, cast out demons from out of people.
    See above. And Jesus wasn't real (not the Son of God one, anyway).

  15. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    So what happened? Surely the evidence is there, right?
    See, this is the problem when you believe in something: confirmation bias. If there was evidence then the case would be closed, as per gravity and bacteria. What you've done is consider some inconclusive factors and decided it means it's ghosts. A cold spot? It must be a ghost whilst forgoing any actual evidence of even a rudimentary nature let alone compelling.

  16. #45
    Atomic Punk Van Squalen's Avatar
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    The problem with current photography tech ... including infrared and all manners of light spectrum measuring...is the electromagnetic substance of the ‘soul’ is phenomena we have yet to observe and record properly.

    The key is perception outside three dimensional confines. We haven’t gotten there yet. The Native Americans and indigenous peoples have come closest and they’ve done it without tech. Certain properties in certain vegetation unlock parts of the brain that briefly allow expanded consciousness.

    In short...once the soul leaves the shell, it transcends to a multi dimensional state. Since our tech is rooted in only three dimensions to date, it can’t quite pick up those phenomena. Only bits and pieces.

 

 

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