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  1. #31
    Atomic Punk I Coulda Hada VH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett View Post
    Only to point out that them being different types of singers influenced Edís style. And I believe that was the biggest reason for the stylistic change.
    I agree.

  2. #32
    Atomic Punk japeape's Avatar
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    It seems like 1984 was Ed really stretching his solo ideas as far as they could go.

    But with Sammy, he became so immersed in chord shapes & even some really odd ones,
    and the leads were more in conjunction with the composition.
    Graver, Walking Ed, refugee from CVH & proud tone chaser...

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  4. #33
    Good Enough Hired Gun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Coulda Hada VH View Post
    Damnit Brett, you were the first one to mention Sam and Dave in this thread.
    28 posts is a good run Coulda
    2018, the year of the Boomerang

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  6. #34
    Atomic Punk I Coulda Hada VH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hired Gun View Post
    28 posts is a good run Coulda
    It might be a new record.
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  7. #35
    Emperor of VHLinks.com Brett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by japeape View Post
    It seems like 1984 was Ed really stretching his solo ideas as far as they could go.

    But with Sammy, he became so immersed in chord shapes & even some really odd ones,
    and the leads were more in conjunction with the composition.
    Totally agree.
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  8. #36
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    I'm not a guitarist, but his playing seemed more complex in from 1983 to 1995. 5150 was a big change obviously, but to me, the 1984 album was already moving away from the wild playing from VH1 to Fair Warning. Diver Down felt like a pit stop.
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  9. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett View Post
    I think the difference in Samís vocals is what changed everything more than anything. Thereís nothing similar between him and Dave and I think Ed just decided to go a little different direction since he could do a few things that either Dave didnít want to or couldnít.

    I donít think it was a conscious decision to change his playing style. I think it was just a product of who he was working with and the fact that it was just a blank slate basically.

    You know a lot of times you are just inspired differently when you play with different musicians for the first time really ever. Itís like a rebirth. I think Ed felt that.
    I think it was the opposite fit the singer to the style. Almost all music of 5150 was already written before Sam was hired.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  10. #38
    Atomic Punk ziggysmalls's Avatar
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    Lots of reasons why I prefer CVH Ed compared to Van Hagar Ed and it has nothing to do with Sammy or Dave. CVH Ed had a more natural tone. The Brown sound. Yes we know today that it was wet here and there from FW on but to me it sounds classic. Van Hagar tone is more similar to CC Deville than EVH of VH1. I know people love Balance tone but honestly it reminds me more of Dan Huff of Giant than Eddie Van Halen. Dan has a very good crystal tone but today when I listen to it, its a product of the times.

    Solo wise its not close. One Eddie was pushing the envelope trying to be a guitar hero. The other Eddie was Rocky in the beginning of Rocky 3. Resting on his laurels. The Holdsworth influence that was creeping in had vanished completely by OU812. Eddie was trying to be more soulful like Clapton but I preferred it when he wanted to be the next Hendrix.

    Also hated the use of the neck pickup in FUCK along with the over use of the Wah. Cabo Wabo was cool with how he used the wah. FUCK and everything today just makes me think of Kirk Hammet

    His writing was fine. No complaints there. I think if you gave him the tone from WACF, FW or 1984, the albums would have had a more CVH vibe even with Sam.

    So Sam is blameless. All on Eddie and his personal choices

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  12. #39
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    Ed beat the guitar into submission on the first four albums, he just attacked the shit out of it. That is why I like those albums best. His playing is very aggressive, and his tone is just out of this world.

    I don't expect a guy to want to do that his entire career, so I appreciate the other albums, but man, the first four to me are where it is at, so it's really 1978-1981 v 1982-2018. I'll take the first four over the next thirty seven.
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  14. #40
    Emperor of VHLinks.com Brett's Avatar
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    Default EVH 1978-1984 vs EVH 1986-1995

    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin Stephens View Post
    I think it was the opposite fit the singer to the style. Almost all music of 5150 was already written before Sam was hired.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
    The rocker stuff may have been stuff like Dreams and Love Walks In was not. And then beyond 5150 of course.
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  16. #41
    Atomic Punk japeape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett View Post
    Totally agree.
    Some of the phrases in the solo's to "Top Jimmy" and even "I'll Wait,"
    are just so outside & brilliant, it's almost like two Eddie's duking it out:
    The Guitar Hero Ed vs. the guy that was going the "Jump!" route.
    Graver, Walking Ed, refugee from CVH & proud tone chaser...

  17. #42
    Atomic Punk japeape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziggysmalls View Post
    Lots of reasons why I prefer CVH Ed compared to Van Hagar Ed and it has nothing to do with Sammy or Dave. CVH Ed had a more natural tone. The Brown sound. Yes we know today that it was wet here and there from FW on but to me it sounds classic. Van Hagar tone is more similar to CC Deville than EVH of VH1. I know people love Balance tone but honestly it reminds me more of Dan Huff of Giant than Eddie Van Halen. Dan has a very good crystal tone but today when I listen to it, its a product of the times.

    Solo wise its not close. One Eddie was pushing the envelope trying to be a guitar hero. The other Eddie was Rocky in the beginning of Rocky 3. Resting on his laurels. The Holdsworth influence that was creeping in had vanished completely by OU812. Eddie was trying to be more soulful like Clapton but I preferred it when he wanted to be the next Hendrix.

    Also hated the use of the neck pickup in FUCK along with the over use of the Wah. Cabo Wabo was cool with how he used the wah. FUCK and everything today just makes me think of Kirk Hammet

    His writing was fine. No complaints there. I think if you gave him the tone from WACF, FW or 1984, the albums would have had a more CVH vibe even with Sam.

    So Sam is blameless. All on Eddie and his personal choices
    Excellent post.

    A lot of it was the change in gear & tone, for me.
    I just did not like the EBMM's, the soldanos, the weird wah effect constantly shaping the sound...
    He started to sound very 90's, almost Satch like on that instrumental.

    I loved the raw/you can hear his fingers, tone of the early records.
    I love how you can hear him forecfully shaping the notes & phrases with his
    hands, on things like "Hang 'em high!"

    But i will admit that tone wouldn't work as well with a lot of the cleaner,
    melodic stuff on FUCK & Balance.

    The guitar tone is pristine & perfect on Balance, but it doesn't sound like Eddie
    in my mind.
    Graver, Walking Ed, refugee from CVH & proud tone chaser...

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  19. #43
    Eruption Al Van Bundy's Avatar
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    I will always stand by my opinion that Ed's playing on the Balance & III tours were him at his peak, ability wise.

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  21. #44
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    78-84.

    Too many reasons to mention. It's so obvious I can't even believe the question needed to be asked.

    Having played both eras, Ed was clearly slowing down in the Sam one. less technique, less dazzle, less fire. And his 91+ stuff was that of an old man in a comfy pair of slippers.
    Last edited by BlofeldsCat; 08.28.18 at 09:16 AM.

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  23. #45
    Baluchitherium
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Van Bundy View Post
    I will always stand by my opinion that Ed's playing on the Balance & III tours were him at his peak, ability wise.
    I tend to agree with this, not just because of my own ears but because you don't do something continuously in any field for decades and get worse at it unless there's injury or something like that. Even if there's physical deterioration you still only become more experienced as time goes on. Now, that doesn't mean a listener has to enjoy the results more, it's perfectly reasonable to prefer earlier stuff because of the youthful abandon and energy and spontaneity or whatever else, but I think Eddie was more capable overall in 95-98 than at any other point until then following 20 years of constant professional activity, even if he wasn't playing what some fans wanted to hear as much.

    But I think the biggest issue that people don't pay attention to is diminishing returns. VH fans might hear OU812 for example and just go "yeah, ok, it's another VH album and good but nothing revolutionary like the first one" but if you put OU812 out in 1978 instead with everything else being the same it would still have been mind blowing. It's hard to clear your head and hear it that way but it's true. But it came after many other VH albums so it's just "another one." It reminds me of when I used to be a bigger gamer that some completely new game would come out and get like a 95% review. Then a sequel would come out and the reviews would say it's basically just more of the same with better graphics, more content, and more polished, (in other words, better in every way) then give it a 82% or something.


    In other words, it's hard to make a first impression twice. And staying the same or even improving slightly goes unnoticed. And I've said this before about many guitarists who got attention from being flashy, what we hear recorded forever on album is an unbelievably tiny fraction of the total they've themselves play, so we may not get burned out on it, but they often do. There may be, what, less than 5 minutes of total solo time of VH1 for us to hear? But for Eddie in 1978 alone he probably heard himself play every conceivable variation of every scale, countless solo ideas, and endless noodling for 10 hours a day for 300 and something days. And after years of that, while it might still be exciting to us, it would be boring as hell to him and it's understandable that he would want to play another instrument or concentrate on writing more than playing or whatever.

 

 

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