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  1. #61
    Atomic Punk ziggysmalls's Avatar
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    02.19.20 @ 01:33 PM
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    Hip Hop today isn't hip hop of old. When I listen to N.W.A its like Appetite of VH1. In your face raw. Stuff out there now is Firehouse.

    Hip Hop to me is like the Blues. At its basics its really fucking awesome but its a bit limited in what you can do with it due to restrictions that are imposed on the style.

    I do find it funny that two of the biggest pop stars like Bruno Mars and Ed Sherren are getting sued left and right for ripping off other artists.

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  3. #62
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    Current rap is like Firehouse...that's a great analogy.
    If I don't respond to you it means I have you on ignore, which means you are a douchenozzle.

    Emperor Brett - "I can't believe you guys are analyzing song-by-song Van Halen III? What next, analyzing the script of Stroker Ace looking for some shred of Citizen Kane?"

    David Lee Roth did the impossible. He made Van Halen better. Deal with it!

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  5. #63
    Atomic Punk Van Squalen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    Anyway, I'm not gonna go down this rabbit-hole and try to defend hip hop on a site that's hostile to the art form. I once got some sound advice from Reckless Fable who's a fan of hip hop.

    "Don't even bother Chris..."
    A wise approach. Iím a fan of hip hop blues rock fusion myself, but youíre not gonna find much allowance for the genre among the unwashed masses hereabouts.

    Iíll give you one guess as to why RF isnít around much anymore.

    Hip hop and rap have the same purpose as rock, jazz, the blues, or any other genre. It speaks to people plain and simple. Their performances and energy therein are no less valid than any other art form. People wanking about it here is no different than our parents wanking about hard rock.

    All generations must change the culture that came before them.

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  7. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Van Squalen View Post
    A wise approach. Iím a fan of hip hop blues rock fusion myself, but youíre not gonna find much allowance for the genre among the unwashed masses hereabouts.

    Iíll give you one guess as to why RF isnít around much anymore.

    Hip hop and rap have the same purpose as rock, jazz, the blues, or any other genre. It speaks to people plain and simple. Their performances and energy therein are no less valid than any other art form. People wanking about it here is no different than our parents wanking about hard rock.

    All generations must change the culture that came before them.
    Yep and no need to guess about RF. I know why.

  8. #65
    Hang 'Em High Harpospoke's Avatar
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    05.08.19 @ 10:10 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    With all due respect, Harpo...who cares about your opinion that rap artists will never be considered great performers. That's simply not true. It may be YOUR truth but an inner city kid who went to their first Ice Cube show would disagree with you right? Are you a great performer? I'm gonna go with possibly...no.

    This is pointless, you don't like hip hop so you're not going to be objective and I don't quite understand your beef with the whole great performers angle and hand gestures. A live concert by its very nature is a PERFORMANCE and whether it's great or not is in the eye of the beholder and subjective. So don't feel sorry for them...they do what they do best (entertain)and they don't need your pity. The fans of hip hop decide what is a great performance Not Harpo or critics of the genre.
    While it's true I don't see anything of value in a live Hip Hop show, that wasn't about me.

    If you can think of a Hip Hop artist who is considered one of the all time great performers I'm listening. I've never seen them mentioned on any of the various "greatest performers ever" lists. I know Chance the Rapper adds in choirs and things like that....to add melody. That helps with the show but it's not really rapping, is it?

    I was just speculating on why that is the case. It seems most likely because a Hip Hop artist doesn't have a lot to work with in a live setting. There is no melody to move the emotional centers of the brain. Melody is a huge part of music throughout history and I don't see that going away. It still rules in a live setting. Hip Hop just doesn't have melody and that's a huge disadvantage. That's my opinion but it seems pretty self evident. Melody has always been the main ingredient in music.

  9. #66
    Sinner's Swing!
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    02.19.20 @ 11:34 AM
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    One indicator might be, when Rolling Stone publishes their "greatest concerts ever" lists, do they include any rap concerts? They write positively about rappers, and they certainly seem to value them over hard rock and "hair metal," but are they ever listed beside Otis Redding and Janis Joplin?

    It's easy to call a performer "boring," but much harder to articulate what it is they're supposed to do about it. "I don't like it. Change it." How? "I dunno."

    If you like rap metal, these guys are the originals, as far as I'm concerned:


  10. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtyBoy View Post
    One indicator might be, when Rolling Stone publishes their "greatest concerts ever" lists, do they include any rap concerts? They write positively about rappers, and they certainly seem to value them over hard rock and "hair metal," but are they ever listed beside Otis Redding and Janis Joplin?

    It's easy to call a performer "boring," but much harder to articulate what it is they're supposed to do about it. "I don't like it. Change it." How? "I dunno."

    If you like rap metal, these guys are the originals, as far as I'm concerned:


    I remember when "Back In Black" came out and people were calling it "Rap Rock". Then RUN DMC gave birth to what became "Rap Metal".

    Rock Box


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    †"He has a swaggering retro machismo that will give hives to the Steinem cabal" -Camille Paglia on Donald Trump

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    "My beef is people thinking Bon Jovi is good cuz they sold lots of records to housewives." -tango

    "But being number one doesnít really mean jack fuck all. We sold twice as many records as other records that year (1984) that landed in the Number One position." ~Eddie Van Halen

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  12. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by bklynboy68 View Post
    I remember when "Back In Black" came out and people were calling it "Rap Rock". Then RUN DMC gave birth to what became "Rap Metal".
    Run DMC was a rap trio with rock elements. They never called themselves a rock band or metal. The Beatie Boys had some guitar riffs, but they were also rappers. Anthrax did "Bring the Noise" with Public Enemy and "I'm the Man," but they were still a thrash band dabbling in rap for novelty.

    Stuck Mojo was a multiethnic rock band (two white guys and two black guys, originally) with a full-time rapper out front. It was a real bass/drums/guitar band, not samples. Song after song, they combined rap and metal as their signature style. I first saw them at a battle of the bands with Hootie and the Blowfish and some others. No one even knew what to make of it at first, it was so against the grain at the time. Then within a couple of years they had a big local following and were talking to record companies.

    Later Korn and Limp Bizkit did shit imitations of their style and ruined it. Korn at least cited Stuck Mojo in some interviews as innovators and even talked about producing a record for them.

    Anyhow, if someone likes that kind of thing, Stuck Mojo's three-song demo was the best thing they ever did, although they have several legitimate albums and still tour Europe in some form.

  13. #69
    Atomic Punk
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    Just pointing out the origins, man. Doesn't matter that Run Dmc didn't call themselves a rock or metal band, they were doing it before anyone else and it gave birth to that genre. Personally, I think Rage Against The Machine closed the book on that genre. They did it best.
    †"He has a swaggering retro machismo that will give hives to the Steinem cabal" -Camille Paglia on Donald Trump

    "But, fucking with Brook is like fucking with hot shit on and ax handle. You just don't get a grip"-track5

    "Make way for the bad guy"- Tony Montana

    'This hamburger don't need no helper"- David Lee Roth

    "I wish Bon Jovi would've given me a call before he recorded all of his hits, because the lyrics would've been smarter, the melodies would've been much more smashing, and they would've sold a lot fewer records." -David Lee Roth

    "My beef is people thinking Bon Jovi is good cuz they sold lots of records to housewives." -tango

    "But being number one doesnít really mean jack fuck all. We sold twice as many records as other records that year (1984) that landed in the Number One position." ~Eddie Van Halen

  14. #70
    Sinner's Swing!
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    Quote Originally Posted by bklynboy68 View Post
    Just pointing out the origins, man. Doesn't matter that Run Dmc didn't call themselves a rock or metal band, they were doing it before anyone else and it gave birth to that genre.
    ...There was no bass, drums and guitar in Run DMC. They were samples played by a DJ, not actual musicians. They were not a rock band. By this logic they gave birth to rap and rap metal at the same time...

  15. #71
    Atomic Punk
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtyBoy View Post
    ...There was no bass, drums and guitar in Run DMC. They were samples played by a DJ, not actual musicians. They were not a rock band. By this logic they gave birth to rap and rap metal at the same time...
    Eddie Martinez played guitar on those tracks, dude. Again, it's the actual music that was created that was important. Those tunes were original compositions, not samples. Jam Master Jay programmed the drums.
    †"He has a swaggering retro machismo that will give hives to the Steinem cabal" -Camille Paglia on Donald Trump

    "But, fucking with Brook is like fucking with hot shit on and ax handle. You just don't get a grip"-track5

    "Make way for the bad guy"- Tony Montana

    'This hamburger don't need no helper"- David Lee Roth

    "I wish Bon Jovi would've given me a call before he recorded all of his hits, because the lyrics would've been smarter, the melodies would've been much more smashing, and they would've sold a lot fewer records." -David Lee Roth

    "My beef is people thinking Bon Jovi is good cuz they sold lots of records to housewives." -tango

    "But being number one doesnít really mean jack fuck all. We sold twice as many records as other records that year (1984) that landed in the Number One position." ~Eddie Van Halen

  16. #72
    Sinner's Swing!
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    Let's try this:

    Wheat bread is more healthy than white bread because it has more grain and fiber. Many doctors say it reduces the risk of cancer.

    I'm just going to tee up statements for people to tell me I'm wrong.

 

 

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