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  1. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by bklynboy68 View Post
    The Daily Kos' headline would be about how he betrayed his party's ideology.
    Depends on which part time barista blogger got to have the headline that day.
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    Canadian journalist admits the harsh reality of single-payer health care

    Jon Street Jul 3, 2017



    Canadian author and journalist Malcolm Gladwell made a damming admission Sunday about the harsh reality of single-payer health care.

    NBC News’ “Meet the Press” host Chuck Todd, in opening his nearly 20-minute-long interview with Gladwell, bemoaned the current “partisan way of thinking” in Washington, D.C., especially when it comes to health care reform and whether health insurance is a right or a privilege.

    Todd then asked Gladwell what Americans are “missing” when it comes to the sharp divisions on Capitol Hill.

    “There’s no opportunity for creative thinking. So what are we missing here? What would you be offering up to try to break the gridlock?,” Todd asked. “I’m not talking about a solution on health care. I’m talking about a solution on figuring out how to govern.”


    Gladwell responded by pointing out the fact that he is Canadian and that Canada implemented a single-payer health care system decades ago.

    “The reason that Canada has single payer,” Gladwell explained, “is that Canadians had a conversation amongst themselves many, many years ago and they asked a very simple question, which is ‘What do we want from our health care?'”

    The Canadian then admitted what many critics of single-payer often point out — that with single-payer health care comes a decline in the quality and quantity of care available.

    “And they came to the answer that what we want is a system that covers everyone, and what that means is we’re willing to give up choice, we’re willing to give up the most high-tech solutions to various medical problems, we’re not going to have expensive, shiny hospitals,” Gladwell said.

    “Basically, Canadians sat down and figured out what their priorities were,” Gladwell added.

    The Canadian journalist said he thinks one of the “root causes” of the current stalemate among U.S. lawmakers is that “no one’s ever had that conversation.”

    “I can’t figure out what people want. It seems to me that every party to the health care discussion wants something different and those things are all incompatible. You can’t want to curb the cost spiral and simultaneously have access to the newest drugs and simultaneously have patient choice and simultaneously have, you know, these are mutually contradicting options,” Gladwell observed.

    “So I think that we should take a little period and, a time-out, and say, you know, is it possible for us to agree on what we think the goal of our health care system is? And maybe out of that conversation you can reach a kind of a clear direction to a policy solution,” Gladwell said.


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  4. #528
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    That's fair. We chose for everyone to get good care. This means those who can afford spectacular care may be disappointed when they have to "settle" for good. I'm ok with this.

    If Americans were guaranteed everyone got Canadian level single payer i think it would be a no brainer to move in that direction. I think many moderates don't trust Washington to get that done. Hard to blame them for that lack of trust.

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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    That's fair. We chose for everyone to get good care. This means those who can afford spectacular care may be disappointed when they have to "settle" for good. I'm ok with this.

    If Americans were guaranteed everyone got Canadian level single payer i think it would be a no brainer to move in that direction. I think many moderates don't trust Washington to get that done. Hard to blame them for that lack of trust.

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    But you agree your single payer offers "good care"?

    Despite all the hysteria about substandard care and quality/quantity from the American side?

    What it boils down to is not single payer itself or government intrusion...it's taxation. Those against single payer couldnt give two fucks about quality/cutting edge because they won't use it. They're going to stick with their insurance and pay for what they deem the best.

    But someone like me doesn't get to have the conversation that Canadians had? My politicians just flat out reject?

    Bullshit.

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    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    But you agree your single payer offers "good care"?

    Despite all the hysteria about substandard care and quality/quantity from the American side?

    What it boils down to is not single payer itself or government intrusion...it's taxation. Those against single payer couldnt give two fucks about quality/cutting edge because they won't use it. They're going to stick with their insurance and pay for what they deem the best.

    But someone like me doesn't get to have the conversation that Canadians had? My politicians just flat out reject?

    Bullshit.
    Most of the criticism I've seen of our system in the US has been comical. The care here is very good.

    The real argument against single payer in America, in my opinion, is a lack of belief in your government doing it right. The concept is not the problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    That's fair. We chose for everyone to get good care. This means those who can afford spectacular care may be disappointed when they have to "settle" for good. I'm ok with this.

    If Americans were guaranteed everyone got Canadian level single payer i think it would be a no brainer to move in that direction. I think many moderates don't trust Washington to get that done. Hard to blame them for that lack of trust.

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    I've got a question for you Mike.

    What if the star player on the Toronto Maple Leafs suffers a severe injury? Where do they send him for treatment? Is he still confined to the Canadian system or can he seek care elsewhere?

    The reason I ask is because Peyton Manning went all over the country and to Europe to seek care when he was trying to come back from his neck injury. Obviously he can seek care where ever he wants because he can afford it and our system is private so there's no restriction on him doing so.

    Does Canada restrict it's citizens that can afford to pay from seeking care elsewhere if they deem the quality to be better?
    Last edited by Get The Show On The Road; 07.04.17 at 03:52 PM.
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  9. #532
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Get The Show On The Road View Post
    I've got a question for you Mike.

    What if the star player on the Toronto Maple Leafs suffers a severe injury? Where do they send him for treatment? Is he still confined to the Canadian system or can he seek care elsewhere?

    The reason I ask is because Peyton Manning went all over the country and to Europe to seek care when he was trying to come back from his neck injury. Obviously he can seek care where ever he wants because he can afford it and our system is private so there's no restriction on him doing so.

    Does Canada restrict it's citizens that can afford to pay from seeking care elsewhere if they deem the quality to be better?
    I'm not sure. The answer is probably it depends. They have a team doctor (i think its still dr Noah Forman) based in Toronto. For surgeries, i reckon they do what every team does and sends them to a specialist, typically in the states. Not sure why that matters. If i hurt my arm i'm not gonna see dr james andrews, neither are you.

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    Last edited by It's Mike; 07.04.17 at 04:04 PM.

  10. #533
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    To answer your question Canadians can seek care elsewhere. But they're paying out of pocket most times. The super wealthy often visit specialists in the states to avoid a wait. In the very rare case you cant find care here but can stateside, the government will cover it most times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    I'm not sure. The answer is probably it depends. They have a team doctor (i think its still dr Noah Forman) based in Toronto. For surgeries, i reckon they do what every team does and sends them to a specialist, typically in the states. Not sure why that matters. If i hurt my arm i'm not gonna see dr james andrews, neither are you.

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    It only matters in as much as I was curious if those with means could pay for the care they see fit.

    And don't be so sure that I couldn't see Dr. Andrews. I was injured myself training for the Boston Marathon in 2010 and was able to pay cash to have the Broncos massage therapist work on me and get me to the starting line.

    It wasn't cheap, but if you're willing to spend the dough, you can usually get in to see top notch specialists here.

    I hate to admit it, but I also got a free MRI and diagnosis to take to the guy because a friend of mine is an MRI tech at the VA. So he squeezed me in between his usual workload. Thus was before all the scandal came out so I feel bad about it now but there's no question it saved me a lot of money.
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  12. #535
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    Despite all the hysteria about substandard care and quality/quantity from the American side?

    What it boils down to is not single payer itself or government intrusion...it's taxation. Those against single payer couldnt give two fucks about quality/cutting edge because they won't use it. They're going to stick with their insurance and pay for what they deem the best.

    But someone like me doesn't get to have the conversation that Canadians had? My politicians just flat out reject?

    Bullshit.
    This makes no sense.and neither does handing our health care over to this government. Again, show me the evidence for your new found faith in our government.
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  13. #536
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    Quote Originally Posted by Get The Show On The Road View Post
    It only matters in as much as I was curious if those with means could pay for the care they see fit.

    And don't be so sure that I couldn't see Dr. Andrews. I was injured myself training for the Boston Marathon in 2010 and was able to pay cash to have the Broncos massage therapist work on me and get me to the starting line.

    It wasn't cheap, but if you're willing to spend the dough, you can usually get in to see top notch specialists here.

    I hate to admit it, but I also got a free MRI and diagnosis to take to the guy because a friend of mine is an MRI tech at the VA. So he squeezed me in between his usual workload. Thus was before all the scandal came out so I feel bad about it now but there's no question it saved me a lot of money.
    Sports teams up here often have relationships with hospitals so they do mris after hours. That sort of thing. The leafs stars arent waiting for an mri or other test.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bklynboy68 View Post
    Can someone explain to me how this is even allowed? This is disgusting and the perfect example of what happens when you hand your life over to government. Who the hell is the EU to say these people can't come to the USA for treatment if they choose to? Is there any wonder why Brexit happened? God have mercy on this planet.




    ‘Death Panel’: European Court Says Terminal Baby Must Die Despite Parents Funding Extra Care

    29 Jun 2017





    A European court has ruled that the parents of a critically ill baby cannot privately pay for him to go to the United States for “experimental treatment”, and the child must stay in a British hospital to “die with dignity”.
    The parents of 10-month-old Charlie Gard are reported to be “utterly distraught” after the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) denied them a final effort to save their dying son.


    After losing a battle in the UK’s Supreme Court, they had appealed to the court in France to fight the decision of British doctors at Great Ormond Street Children’s Hospital, who argued the baby could not be saved in the U.S. and must “die with dignity”.


    Chris Gard, 32, and Connie Yates, 31, had raised more than £1.3 million to take Charlie to the U.S. for partially untested, “experimental” treatment, which they claim could save his life.

    Britain has a socialised healthcare system, and despite the fact his parents raised private funds for treatment, the courts could have acted as what some in U.S. politicians call a “death panel”, decided who is and who is not worth saving.

    “We strongly feel as his parents that Charlie should get a chance to try these medications. He literally has nothing to lose but potentially a healthier, happier life to gain,” the mother wrote on a crowd-funding page.

    Some on social media agreed with the parents and expressed anger at the court.


    Kathy Clark, Author ‎@93NightWriter


    European Court of Human Rights? Odd name for a death panel. Look out America. Single payer coming.https://www.theguardian.com/law/2017...-support-fight

    2:34 PM - 28 Jun 2017




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    @standardnews very evil people.....$entencing a child to death! What an anti-child pagan $ociety we are. I pray for #CharlieGard!

    12:34 PM - 27 Jun 2017



    Charlie was born healthy, but suffers from a rare genetic condition, called mitochondrial depletion syndrome, and has serious brain damage.

    The ECHR ruled Tuesday that the British hospital was correct and the treatment in the U.S. could not help Charlie. The court said the application by the parents was “inadmissible” and added that their decision was “final”.



    They acknowledged “sensitive moral and ethical issues” had been raised in the case and said they respected the “domestic legal framework” of the UK which had come to the same judgement.



    A spokesman for Great Ormond Street Hospital said in a statement: “Our thoughts are with Charlie’s parents on receipt of this news which we know will be very distressing for them.

    “Today’s decision by the [ECHR] marks the end of what has been a very difficult process and our priority is to provide every possible support to Charlie’s parents as we prepare for the next steps.

    “There will be no rush by Great Ormond Street Hospital to change Charlie’s care and any future treatment plans will involve careful planning and discussion.”

    However, Charlie’s mother argued: “We just CAN’T let our baby die when there is something that might help him! We won’t give up on him because he has a rare disease.



    “He deserves a chance and he deserves a life as much as anyone else. We understand that rare diseases don’t get enough funding for research but why should that be a reason for a child to die?! He’s here now and this could help our baby.”



    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017...ng-extra-care/


    Charlie Gard Family Friend Sends Urgent Message to Trump: ‘Please Save This Baby’


    Maria Tatalovic sent an urgent message to U.S. President Donald Trump to talk with British doctors and lawmakers on behalf of baby Charlie Gard whose family wants to seek treatment for his condition in the United States.

    Ms Tatalovic appeared on former UKIP leader Nigel Farage’s LBC radio programme pleading with the American president to help intervene in the case of baby Charlie Gard who will have his life support removed Friday.

    President Trump, I never thought I would actually direct a message to you, but please save this baby,” she said.

    “We just need him to be released, transferred and receive treatment which will be paid for. We’re not asking for anyone to treat [Charlie] who doesn’t want to,” she added.

    “It’s about choice, it’s about parental rights, it’s about human rights and it’s about the right to life for this baby who deserves it.”

    Young Charlie suffers from a rare genetic condition and sought treatment in the United States after NHS health practitioners claimed he should be taken off life support. The parents of Charlie took the doctors to court in a case that went all the way up to the European Court of Human rights but the doctors’ decision was upheld.



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    No...I don't have any kids so therefore I can't possibly understand right? Ok...got that out of the way.

    My opinion nonetheless is I think it's cruel to prolong this baby's misery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    No...I don't have any kids so therefore I can't possibly understand right? Ok...got that out of the way.

    My opinion nonetheless is I think it's cruel to prolong this baby's misery.
    Kinda agree at first glance. But as a dad I don't know if I could do the same to my own kid.

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    The "death panel" thing appearing in the article is utter fucking garbage.

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