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  1. #9781
    Atomic Punk I Coulda Hada VH's Avatar
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    I was listening to Eddie Trunk's show yesterday on Hair Nation and he was going on and on about how there is just no audience for the majority of the 80's "Hair Bands". The one exception ... Bon Jovi.

    He talked about how even a band like Def Leppard (who had consecutive Diamond selling albums with Pyromania and Hysteria) always tours with other major bands (they're currently out with Poison and Tesla). So, I guess Van Halen (not a Hair Band) actually does alright when they go out on tour without another major band to help them sell tickets.
    "It's so lonely at the top because it's so crowded at the bottom" - Diamond David Lee Roth

    "The past ain't what it used to be"

    "Music is like candy. You throw out the rappers"

    "Be careful what you wish for because you just might lose what you already have"

    "Women and Children First ... The REAL Van Halen III"

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  3. #9782
    Good Enough VH1988's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toxic34 View Post
    Bon Jovi is one of the greats. If you like the Sammy era of VH, you like Bon Jovi. Just admit it. There's no real difference between them. If you like post-comeback Aerosmith, you like Bon Jovi.
    Dumbest thing I've ever read. I absolutely HATE Bon Jovi.
    [B]
    Eddie Van Halen in 2012:

    "ESQ: What are you going to do with all the material that you wrote with Sammy Hagar?

    EVH: Oh, I hadn't thought about that. That's some great music. They're just on vacation, maybe. They're off to college and they're going their own way. Who knows?"

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  5. #9783
    Atomic Punk bklynboy68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toxic34 View Post
    Bon Jovi is one of the greats.
     "He has a swaggering retro machismo that will give hives to the Steinem cabal" -Camille Paglia on Donald Trump

    "Make way for the bad guy"- Tony Montana

    'This hamburger don't need no helper"- David Lee Roth

    "I wish Bon Jovi would've given me a call before he recorded all of his hits, because the lyrics would've been smarter, the melodies would've been much more smashing, and they would've sold a lot fewer records." -David Lee Roth

    "My beef is people thinking Bon Jovi is good cuz they sold lots of records to housewives." -tango

    "But being number one doesn’t really mean jack fuck all. We sold twice as many records as other records that year (1984) that landed in the Number One position." ~Eddie Van Halen

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  7. #9784
    Unchained What a Rocker 1973's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bklynboy68 View Post
    Imagine if you had to be the undercard on a major tour with Bon Jovi....

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  9. #9785
    Good Enough VH1988's Avatar
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    Bon Jovi sells out stadiums.

    Blows my mind.

    Lots of cougars at those shows I imagine.
    [B]
    Eddie Van Halen in 2012:

    "ESQ: What are you going to do with all the material that you wrote with Sammy Hagar?

    EVH: Oh, I hadn't thought about that. That's some great music. They're just on vacation, maybe. They're off to college and they're going their own way. Who knows?"

  10. #9786
    Eruption
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    05.23.17 @ 12:39 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Coulda Hada VH View Post
    So, I guess Van Halen (not a Hair Band)
    It's all a matter of perspective. They kickstarted the hair band regime. They were the original good time, party band, fresh-faced and all smiles. Sporting the archetypal guitar god with an outrageous guitar and the archetypcal frontman with the outrageous attitude. So many people see Van halen as the archetypal hair band.
    Last edited by BlofeldsCat; 05.23.17 at 09:14 AM.

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  12. #9787
    Atomic Punk Raldo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VH1988 View Post
    Bon Jovi sells out stadiums.

    Blows my mind.

    Lots of cougars at those shows I imagine.
    Tons....from what I hear.
    Remember the Heroes - 9/11/01

    In 2012, the phoenix has risen!!

    "High speed, low drag."

    "Look at all the people here tonight!!!" - 10/5/07, 5/20/08 Mohegan Sun

    Congratulations to Van Halen as part of the Class of 2007 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame!

    Cinco de Cabo @ Foxwoods: "A giant party with live music" - S. Hagar

    got tequila?

    http://keepitaliveforever.com

  13. #9788
    Atomic Punk Little Dreamer's Avatar
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    Er, nope. Van Halen was NEVER "all smiles." They were "happy to be angry" and "angry to be happy," to quote DLR.
    They were walking down "mean street" and suffering from "loss of control." "Running with the Devil" and "on fire." Some of them were living in a "house of pain."

    That's a far cry from a "flower in your hair" good-time type of band. That you partied while listening to them, that's your decision/reaction. But VH's music always had an edge. Sure, they weren't goth-liked depressed or writing about serial killers like Slayer. They maintained a subtle balance between optimism and pessimism. Van Halen as a "party rock" band always sounded wrong to me. That the band themselves partied (heavily) doesn't mean the music was "party rock."
    Little Dreamer

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  15. #9789
    Atomic Punk jrk5150's Avatar
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    Been to see Bon Jovi 3-4 times. It's a fun show, decent music, and safe for kids. It was my daughter's first show at 10 years old.

    As opposed to my son's first show at 10, which was Foreigner, Styx and Def Leppard (2004). I got really lucky - as the camera was panning the crowd during Def Lep's set, I kind of got an "uh, oh" feeling, so I asked him how he liked the show. And sure enough, right as he turns to me to answer (away from the stage), there's the chick flashing her tits on the big screen. That was a "phew" moment, an awkward conversation avoided.

  16. #9790
    Atomic Punk bklynboy68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Dreamer View Post
    Er, nope. Van Halen was NEVER "all smiles." They were "happy to be angry" and "angry to be happy," to quote DLR.
    They were walking down "mean street" and suffering from "loss of control." "Running with the Devil" and "on fire." Some of them were living in a "house of pain."

    That's a far cry from a "flower in your hair" good-time type of band. That you partied while listening to them, that's your decision/reaction. But VH's music always had an edge. Sure, they weren't goth-liked depressed or writing about serial killers like Slayer. They maintained a subtle balance between optimism and pessimism. Van Halen as a "party rock" band always sounded wrong to me. That the band themselves partied (heavily) doesn't mean the music was "party rock."
    "FLOWER IN YOUR HAIR"...NO.

    "ARE YOU READY TO GET DOWN?" (Actual VH concert intro, btw)...YES!

    They were definitely a drinkin' and smokin' type of band and vibe.











    They look like they're smiling to me. They were not an "angry band"

    Oh yeah, the 1980 World Invasion tour was dubbed the "Party 'Til You Die" tour

    Last edited by bklynboy68; 05.23.17 at 10:26 AM.
     "He has a swaggering retro machismo that will give hives to the Steinem cabal" -Camille Paglia on Donald Trump

    "Make way for the bad guy"- Tony Montana

    'This hamburger don't need no helper"- David Lee Roth

    "I wish Bon Jovi would've given me a call before he recorded all of his hits, because the lyrics would've been smarter, the melodies would've been much more smashing, and they would've sold a lot fewer records." -David Lee Roth

    "My beef is people thinking Bon Jovi is good cuz they sold lots of records to housewives." -tango

    "But being number one doesn’t really mean jack fuck all. We sold twice as many records as other records that year (1984) that landed in the Number One position." ~Eddie Van Halen


  17. #9791
    Eruption
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Dreamer View Post
    Er, nope. Van Halen was NEVER "all smiles." They were "happy to be angry" and "angry to be happy," to quote DLR.
    They were walking down "mean street" and suffering from "loss of control." "Running with the Devil" and "on fire." Some of them were living in a "house of pain."
    Oh well if you're gonna play that game then they were also Hot for Teacher, Jumping with excitement when the Ice Cream Man came, Dancing in the Streets of oh oh oh oh Panama with the Unchained and Beautiful Girls. And this is long before they were given the Runaround when Love Walks In on Summer Nights and put the on Top of the World.


    That's a far cry from a "flower in your hair" good-time type of band.
    Hair bands as you Americans like to call them were never 'flower i your hair' - that's the hippy movement you're thinking of - especially those who were going to Fat Sam's Disco.

    As for those hair bands, many were Locked In a Darkened Room, saying You're All I Need a they were desperate for Something to Believe In and begging: Don't Close Your Eyes. They said 'We're Not Gonna Take It' and became the Youth Gone Wild in the Still of the Night down at Uncle Tom's Cabin telling non-believers to Get The Funk Out. So not all happy flower in your hair at all.


    But VH's music always had an edge.
    Which is why I said it's all about perspective. You can deny it all you want, the truth is they were the archetypal hair band and the majority of the heavy rock scene feel that way.


    Sure, they weren't goth-liked depressed or writing about serial killers like Slayer. They maintained a subtle balance between optimism and pessimism.
    Same goes for Overriding optimism is not defacto of hair metal.


    Van Halen as a "party rock" band always sounded wrong to me.
    But that is what they are known as whether you like it or not. Even Van Halen Rising had it as its subtitle.
    Last edited by BlofeldsCat; 05.23.17 at 11:38 AM.

  18. #9792
    Eruption
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    Quote Originally Posted by VH1988 View Post
    Bon Jovi sells out stadiums.

    Blows my mind.

    Lots of cougars at those shows I imagine.
    Yeah, because Jovi only had female fans

    For you of all people to say this is laughable Mr I Can't Stop Loving You.

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  20. #9793
    Eruption
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrideofPasadena View Post
    I'm not saying none of them were dropped, but they made it easy for the companies to drop them by not delivering any good stuff Some of them prior to grunge. Grunge helped them clean house on acts they mighta held on to for a little longer if grunge didn't hit.
    You're just looking at this way too simplistically. They only made it easy to be dropped because they were the antithesis of the musical tide of grunge and hip hop. As has been pointed out by Ziggy and I, they had usper talented musicians who wrote knockout tunes and still do - even in different genres. Had the musical tide changed in 1985 then Jovi never would have broken through and VH would've been dropped because a band who's previous single were Jump, Panama and Hot for Teacher - and who were fronted by a larger than life blonde bimbo in arseless chaps - would have been the prime target. And then someone else instead of you would be saying they didn't last because they couldn't write good music.

    It didn't help that many bands had crises just as they needed to hunker down. Crue, Skid, Ratt, Poison, Dokken (even Jovi) to name just a few had major lineup changes and in most case to their most visible member: the singer. Most of all, many tried to change with the musical tide, chasing trends and not being congruent with who they are. Whether it was Warrant, Crue, Tyketto or whoever - too many chopped their hair, dropped their tuning as well as guitar solos and went all angsty resulting in alienating what fans stayed behind and not being cool enough to sway grunge and nu-metal fans. And before they even got going, that scene was over and all of rock was dead.

    I agree that not all of the band were good - and that is a result of the scene being so successful as labels couldn't wait to sign the next White Lion and Poison - but I disagree that it was a siple matter of 'if they were good enough they would have survived'. You also have to look at them, especially those from '87-'92 through the lens of the times. By that I mean labels wanted big hair, big personalities, high-jinks in videos and songs about pulling girls. Southgang had great hooks but the crass lyrics of Tainted Angel were a product of the era as opposed to reflecting who they were. Same goes for Warrant and Cherry Pie.

    When you're in fashion then even the most dubious (Slaughter) can get multiple album deals and when you're not then even the best (Bee Gees, as someone mentioned) get kicked to the kerb. As I said before, talent isn't a major component as to whether someone succeeds or not.


    Did the big bands have an advantage, sure, did the companies jump on the bandwagon, sure, but if those bands had anything great left to offer it woulda been put out by now.
    How can it be out when the companies didn't believe in them? Wouldn't return their calls? For a while in the mid-late 90s when Stallone was bombing, places like The Ivy were suddenly always full and studio execs were inextricably never able to 'do lunch'. Yet when he had a comeback, doors and diaries reopened. But not every is lucky enough to get a Stallone/Bee Gees second chance.


    Those bands weren't ever gonna string out 6, 7, or more, great records. I think the record companies knew that.
    You don't know what they were or were not capable of. No one is. Even if released now we wouldn't know because any big chorus songs about being cool with chicks and sad ballads with singers crying into their pints over their broken hearts will sound cheesy to us in 2017.

    As for the record companies only ever knew the musical landscape. And they never cared about how good a band was. in 1991 they would have insta-tossed demos of Appetite for Destruction, Slippery When Wet, 1984 and 1987 even though they're landmarks of the genre. That's the simple truth. They are business first and last. They care only about ROI (and rightly so). And in the 90s all they wanted was three badly strummed chords and crap singing.


    The great bands could, thus, they got to carry on.
    They got to carry on because they were already, as you say, great and had the fanbase to carry them through. Maiden, Ozzy and Priest released their dodgiest material during the 90s and so it had nothing to do with producing better material than their peers.

    Anyway, that's all I have say on the matter.

 

 

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