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  1. #1
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    Question What If?-Irving Azoff became manager in '93/'94?

    Many of us agree that the hiring of Ray Danniels to manage the band after Ed Leffler's death was a mistake, regardless of whether we consider him a decent man who tried his best to work things out or the equivalent of Mephistopheles. We can all agree, however, that he was the wrong man for the job. The full band involvement for the Twister soundtrack was his idea, he pushed for the 1996 VMAs appearance, and he personally swayed Eddie and Alex to choose Gary to fill the frontman role, all of which were massive mistakes that deeply affected the band. These were all blunders that a better manager would've easily not went for. While Eddie did need to take back control of what was rightfully his and change the dynamic from someone who was just rubber-stamping Sammy's calling the shots, Danniels was not the right decision, and the family connection was clearly the primary reason for it.

    So who should've been the manager after Leffler's death? My money would be on Irving Azoff, who has of course managed VH's affairs for more than a decade at this point. Azoff is of course the last real true manager/powerbroker in the music industry that's left. His longstanding relationship with the Eagles and his bringing together the Hell Freezes Over resumption tour made him the figure many want to be representd by. Journey switched to his guidance during the recording of Trial by Fire and planned the massive tour that would've resulted were it not for the tension caused by Steve Perry's hip injury, and has also helped bring about their recent resurgence with Arnel Pineda. Azoff has also managed various pop stars of the last 20 years, including NSYNC, Justin Timberlake's solo career, Christina Aguilera, and so on. Clearly, Don Henley knew what he was talking about when he said of Azoff, "he may be Satan, but he's our Satan."

    So, what would've happened if Azoff had come into the VH fold earlier than he did? The end of the Sammy era wouldn't have been much different. Sammy would've bitched and complained regardless of who Eddie and Alex chose, and would've continued his passive aggressive mindfucking. The only real difference is that Azoff would not have sought the Twister soundtrack or at least not pushed for it to be a VH project, and the original plan to take 1996 off would've held. The lineup would've held for a bit longer, but not much. Only Ed Leffler could've kept Van Hagar alive, and no one else ever could, and Sammy would've left in his desire to feel free to express himself. Maybe Azoff would've tamped down some of the bitterness to a point where it could be more easily put toether again, but there would've been a rift anyways, and Sammy would still be blatantly lying and taking his cheap, personal potshots at Eddie and call him the worst human being on the face of the Earth

    After Sammy's departure, however, the results are cloudier and uncertain. Three possibilities emerge, each of which is equally possible. Mitch Malloy or another person gets hired, no drama and no big problem, and the Best Of Vol. 1 either doesn't figure/doesn't emerge, or gets finished with this individual. The Best Of Vol. 1 reunion with Dave happens anyways, but there is no VMAs appearance, and Azoff works to reinforce the plans and disabuse Dave of his denial that he can get Eddie and Alex to change their minds. There is confusion, but no real drama. Or, Azoff pushes for a CVH reunion album and tour, and the late '90s close out with this massive and successful repairing. Each is equally likely, and I can't say with any certainty which one it would've been. All I do know is that Sammy would've left, and the drama of 1996 would never have occurred.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
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    I'm sure others know more than I do but I just don't see that Azoff has done a single thing other than schedule shows like a secretary for the last decade. As far as I can tell VH doesn't really have any management. There's no office or team or organization of any kind. I realize you're asking about the early 90s but I'm just saying that after a decade back with Dave I don't even have an impression of Azoff one way or another (although Dave certainly doesn't like him) to project how he may have affected them at other times. For the last 15 years Van Halen has just felt like a home brew operation to me. A giant band run like a mom and pop shop.

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  4. #3
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    I would have like to seen Herbie Herbert at the time. He had better experience at managing a dysfunctional band and a big enough personality to not be anyone's lap dog. Daniels was not well suited to the dysfunction of Van Halen, in all fairness few likely are.

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  6. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin Stephens View Post
    I would have like to seen Herbie Herbert at the time. He had better experience at managing a dysfunctional band and a big enough personality to not be anyone's lap dog. Daniels was not well suited to the dysfunction of Van Halen, in all fairness few likely are.
    Interesting that of course, Herbert was made to step down from managing Journey as Steve Perry's condition for rejoining them to do Trial by Fire, and also personally pushed them to hire Azoff, citing the Hell Freezes Over tour. Which of course made Perry's refusal to get hip replacement surgery to be able to proceed with a tour all the more baffling to the others. But they managed to stick around with it for 18 months before giving Perry an ultimatum, and he decided to simply leave.

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    Perry and Herbert hate each other. Herbie is 100% spot on about perry, just a bad human.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

  8. #6
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    Considering there is virtually no real works about Journey besides the Behind The Music episode, I can't really say. Would you say that if Herbert had not stepped down, we wouldn't even have Trial by Fire and the group original planned reformation with Kevin Chalfant would've gone through?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toxic34 View Post
    Considering there is virtually no real works about Journey besides the Behind The Music episode, I can't really say. Would you say that if Herbert had not stepped down, we wouldn't even have Trial by Fire and the group original planned reformation with Kevin Chalfant would've gone through?
    Oh wow a Chalf reference. Possibly, Chalf is a killer singer and good dude. Journey is as dysfunctional as Van Halen just better managed. Because of Herbie none of them ever had to work again a day in their life. The lighting company made them all rich which was created by Herbie just to fucking spite Perry which is awesome. That lighting company gave you Raised on Radio and set them up for life. Here is my favorite Herbie factoid, Journey sold more records while technically broken up than while they were an actual band. Herbie can print money for his artists and make their catalogs evergreen. He actually managesn Schon personally so he still had a lot to do with Journey even to this day the members meet at Herbie's cove to make big decisions. Herbie is my idol on the business side of the biz, love the man and his craziness. Reality is no constraint.

  10. #8
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    Irving Azoff is not Ed Leffler.

    He uses his clout to make the most money possible for his clients. But a band nanny he isn't.
    Taylor Swift is nice to look at. Adele can sing.

    Emperor Brett - "I can't believe you guys are analyzing song-by-song Van Halen III? What next, analyzing the script of Stroker Ace looking for some shred of Citizen Kane?"

    David Lee Roth did the impossible. He made Van Halen better. Deal with it!

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  11. #9
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    Thought I'd post this here. It's an eye opener


    Journey’s End: a must-read interview

    April 09, 2015


    Love ‘em or hate ‘em, the band Journey made its mark in the late 70s and early 80s with rousing rock anthems and weepy pop ballads, and though the band may have been hated by critics, audiences grew with each successive release.  Not only did multiple personnel changes not hurt Journey, it seemed as if the changes were destined to be, as each new member added an element that bolstered and heightened the band’s success.  For a while, they could do no wrong. 

    And then in 1986 something happened: gone was the rhythm section of Steve Smith and Ross Valory, gone were the one-word album titles and interesting artwork, and gone was – to my ears – the band’s edge.  Rumor had it that lead singer Steve Perry had taken control of the band, except specifics were hard to come by.  Try searching “Journey fire Steve Smith and Ross Valory” on Google, and most of what you’ll find are brief sentences summarizing the event and little of substance even from former band members.  VH1’s “Journey Behind the Music” adds nothing critical to the story, and watching the “rockumentary,” one gets the feeling that Perry controlled its content, as he’s featured far more prominently than other band members.

    But a few months ago my friend Aaron forwarded a 2001 interview of long-time Journey manager Herbie Herbert by long-time Journey fan Matthew Carty.  A more intriguing, entertaining read you’ll be hard-pressed to find, unless it’s a  2008 interview of Herbie Herbert by Andrew McNeice.  Herbert is an interviewer’s goldmine: outspoken, knowledgeable, funny, and an old-school, hard-nosed character whose musical instincts and marketing savvy were spot-on.

    Next time you have half an hour, read the 2001 Carty interview, and you may walk away with an entirely different understanding of the band, of the music industry and – possibly – human nature.  I’ve read it twice, and I’ll read it again.  It’s that good.
     "He has a swaggering retro machismo that will give hives to the Steinem cabal" -Camille Paglia on Donald Trump

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    "I wish Bon Jovi would've given me a call before he recorded all of his hits, because the lyrics would've been smarter, the melodies would've been much more smashing, and they would've sold a lot fewer records." -David Lee Roth

    "My beef is people thinking Bon Jovi is good cuz they sold lots of records to housewives." -tango

    "But being number one doesn’t really mean jack fuck all. We sold twice as many records as other records that year (1984) that landed in the Number One position." ~Eddie Van Halen

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  13. #10
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    Azo$$ would have pushed the DLR reunion, obviously, because that is where the BIG money would have been, and we all know how he loves his money.

  14. #11
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    I dig the Santana IV Neal Schon just did with Carlos. The Schonicity meter is high on that one!
    Little Dreamer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Dreamer View Post
    I dig the Santana IV Neal Schon just did with Carlos. The Schonicity meter is high on that one!
    Thanks for the reminder. I forgot about IV being released. Been wanting to hear Schon with Rolie again... and away from Jonathan Cain.
    Last edited by Number 47; 09.20.16 at 03:48 AM.

  17. #13
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    It will be a great day when Asshoff retires or whatever.
    "Never is just reven spelled backwards." -House

    "Did I listen to pop music because I was miserable or was I miserable because I listened to pop music?" -THE Rob Gordon

 

 

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