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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
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    12.11.17 @ 04:37 PM
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    Default Pharma CEO gave herself an $18 million raise after hiking EpiPen prices

    http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/ar...allergy-epipen

    Members of Congress are in an unusual position as they demand an explanation for Mylan NV’s 400 percent price hike for the EpiPen and focus attention squarely on its CEO: Heather Bresch.
    If lawmakers follow the usual script, Bresch could get called up to Capitol Hill next month to explain her company’s justification for raising the price on the life-saving allergy shot. But that could be awkward, since she’s the daughter of Democratic Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia.

    http://usuncut.com/class-war/pharma-ceo-epipen/
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.” -- Gen. George S. Patton

  2. #2
    Atomic Punk edwardv's Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 08:01 AM
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    Pharma is out of control just another reason your paying 6-13k a year for crappy health insurance with a 3000k deductable and 10-20% coinsurance.

    400% price hikes and 18 million dollar personal pay raise hey this makes Ticketbastard look reasonable. Piece of Shit
    EVH 1979: Well, actually it's not much of a vacation, because we run everything ourselves. We design our own album cover, we have to be in the office every day to sign checks - the whole corporation revolves around us. Nothing can be done without our approval. We even have photo approval.

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  4. #3
    Sinner's Swing! Jesus H Christ's Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 06:39 AM
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    Default The Lack of EpiPen Competitors is the FDA's Fault

    There’s a new bout of outrage over an expensive medicine or medical treatment. While the good in question changes each time, the blame always seems to fall on greedy corporations who just aren’t regulated enough. Free markets and capitalism are the scapegoat, even when nothing remotely resembling unhampered markets in health care is in place in the United States.

    This time, it’s the EpiPen, a device that easily and safely injects epinephrine to quickly open up airways for people undergoing severe anaphylaxis because of an extreme allergy. It has saved the lives of countless people who are allergic to bee stings, certain foods, or other drugs because it can be administered on the spot by somebody without any medical training.

    EpiPen is sold by Mylan, and the price for a pack of two has increased from about $100 in 2007 to over $600 as of May 2016. Mylan has tried to quell the storm by pointing out that many of their customers pay nothing for the drug because of insurance. Their deflection has been unsuccessful.

    The economist looks for competitors in cases like this. A firm cannot just willy-nilly raise their prices without a competing firm leaping in to give consumers what they want at a lower price. As it turns out, Mylan has a great friend who keeps would-be competitors out of the market, or at least makes it so difficult for them that they eventually go out of business. That friend is the FDA.

    With the FDA, patents, and cozy insurance relationships, Mylan has been able to steadily increase the price of EpiPens without significant market repercussions. Though, the current backlash may push many patients and doctors to look for alternatives. The only problem is that alternatives are few and far between because of government interventions.

    Epinephrine is extremely cheap—just a few cents per dose. The complications come from producing the easy auto-injecting devices. Mylan “owns” their auto-injector device design, so competitors must find work-arounds in their devices to deliver the epinephrine into the patient’s body. This task, coupled with the tangled mess of FDA red tape, has proven to be difficult for would-be EpiPen competitors. It’s like expecting somebody to come up with a new way to play baseball without bases, balls, gloves, or bats, but still getting the game approved by the MLB as a baseball game substitute.

    A French pharmaceutical company offered an electronic device that actually talks people through the steps of administering the drug, but it was recalled because of concerns about it delivering the required dose. Just this year, Teva Pharmaceutical’s attempt at bringing a generic epinephrine injector to market in the US was blocked by the FDA. Adrenaclick and Twinject were unable to get insurance companies on board and so discontinued their injectors in 2012.

    Adrenaclick has since come back, but it is still not covered by many insurance plans, and the FDA has made it illegal for pharmacies to substitute Adrenaclick as a generic alternative to EpiPen. Another company tried to sidestep the whole auto-injector patent barrier by offering prefilled syringes, but the FDA has stalled them, too.

    Mylan has been repeatedly protected from competition, and it has repeatedly (and predictably) increased the price of EpiPens in response. Allowing all of these companies to compete in producing epinephrine auto-injectors would be the best course for all of the many patients who want a cheaper solution for severe allergic reactions.

    One thing is for sure: capitalism is not to blame. Government regulations have choked this market and many others. What we need is a big dose of freedom.

    https://mises.org/blog/lack-epipen-c...ors-fdas-fault
    "The less I needed, the better I felt." ~ Charles Bukowski.

  5. #4
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    There are advantages to capitalism and there are situations like this

  6. #5
    Atomic Punk CaboChris's Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 01:58 PM
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    "OMG...the government FORCED me to give myself an $18 million raise...."!!!!

    Those damn government regulations.

    Lol!!!

  7. #6
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 11:04 AM
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    I love this math.

    Greed
    +
    Government gives company a monopoly
    +
    Government writes laws requiring two shots so company can sell only two-packs
    +
    Government requires epinephrine in certain public places (like schools) but the law is written so that only EpiPens qualify and no competitors do
    +
    Government gives EpiPen special advertising leeway their competitors don't get
    +
    CEO has Washington connections (dad's a Senator)
    =
    free-market capitalism failure

    This math is why people think Obamacare followed the failure of the free market capitalism in health care.
    Last edited by lovemachine97(Version 2); 08.24.16 at 03:27 PM.

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    Sinner's Swing! evhintexas's Avatar
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    12.09.17 @ 03:43 PM
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    Piss on that bitch

  10. #8
    Atomic Punk edwardv's Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 08:01 AM
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    Be a good debate question how to handle a situation like this??.........good luck there
    EVH 1979: Well, actually it's not much of a vacation, because we run everything ourselves. We design our own album cover, we have to be in the office every day to sign checks - the whole corporation revolves around us. Nothing can be done without our approval. We even have photo approval.

  11. #9
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    I love this math.

    Greed
    +
    Government gives company a monopoly
    +
    Government writes laws requiring two shots so company can sell only two-packs
    +
    Government requires epinephrine in certain public places (like schools) but the law is written so that only EpiPens qualify and no competitors do
    +
    Government gives EpiPen special advertising leeway their competitors don't get
    +
    CEO has Washington connections (dad's a Senator)
    =
    free-market capitalism failure

    This math is why people think Obamacare followed the failure of the free market capitalism in health care.
    too lay most of this on government is a pretty laughable premise.
    Last edited by It's Mike; 08.24.16 at 04:56 PM.

  12. #10
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 11:04 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    too lay most of this on government is a pretty laughable premise.
    I did say it takes greed. Not ignoring that.

    However, if I had a product on the market that cost as much as $1.8 billion to get to market, I can think of a few ways the government could help a brother out so I could charge a fuckload for it.

    For instance . . . they could keep nearly all competitors off the market by holding their product to higher standards than they hold my product to--even those making a generic version of my product . . . they could require two of my product in all cases even if a third of my customers only need one . . . they could require all schools and other public places carry my product and write the laws in ways that none of my competitors would meet the written standards in the law so only I can sell it to them . . . they could allow me to advertise to those who have allergies AND who are "at risk" while having competitors only advertise to those who have allergies, so demand for my product increases.

    In this case, the government did all those things. This is greed meeting government-imposed monopoly and crony capitalism.

    There is a very easy way to solve this. Let the generic version of the injector hit the market RIGHT NOW. They started on it in 2012 and got rejected this year because they didn't meet standards HIGHER than what the EpiPen is held to. At this point it won't hit until 2017 or 2018 at the earliest. But it is doubling the amount of time spent in approval, which is just going to make the generic more expensive when it hits the market. They will have spent way more money than needed to get it to market AND the market value has increased due to all this time with no competition.
    Last edited by lovemachine97(Version 2); 08.24.16 at 05:52 PM.

  13. #11
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Default

    Same product cost a fraction north of the border. This is just good old fashioned greed and private sector ownership of your elected representatives.

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    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    Same product cost a fraction north of the border. This is just good old fashioned greed and private sector ownership of your elected representatives.
    We're saying the exact same thing, Mike. Greed meets unnecessary government-imposed monopolies and crony capitalism. Crony capitalism and enforcing monopolies is not "capitalism."

    The only reason no generic is out for the EpiPen injector is the previous owner kept the price low. This person saw a situation to exploit just like Shkreli did. Once the price started creeping up, an Israeli company started work on a generic. And guess what? It meets the same standards as EpiPen does.

    There is no good, Goddamn reason that the EpiPen generic needs to hit a higher standard than the brand name version already on the market. Same thing happened with Martin Shkrelli--there was no good, Goddamn reason that the drug needed to be updated from its grandfathered status and therefore given a monopoly against competitors and generics. It was already approved and on the market for decades. It's regulation for regulations sake.

    This is the kind of shit that drives guys like me nuts. We want regulation? Fine. Make sure things are safe. But don't do it in a way that is so complicated and expensive that it allows greedy douchebags to bypass the regulatory safeguards of the free market. Example: if I were a greedy douchebag, I could probably charge a lot of ice cream if the government said no one else could sell dessert. However, with all kinds of desserts and ice cream on the market, more than about $4 for a half gallon is pushing it.

  16. #13
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    We're saying the exact same thing, Mike. Greed meets unnecessary government-imposed monopolies and crony capitalism. Crony capitalism and enforcing monopolies is not "capitalism."

    The only reason no generic is out for the EpiPen injector is the previous owner kept the price low. This person saw a situation to exploit just like Shkreli did. Once the price started creeping up, an Israeli company started work on a generic. And guess what? It meets the same standards as EpiPen does.

    There is no good, Goddamn reason that the EpiPen generic needs to hit a higher standard than the brand name version already on the market. Same thing happened with Martin Shkrelli--there was no good, Goddamn reason that the drug needed to be updated from its grandfathered status and therefore given a monopoly against competitors and generics. It was already approved and on the market for decades. It's regulation for regulations sake.

    This is the kind of shit that drives guys like me nuts. We want regulation? Fine. Make sure things are safe. But don't do it in a way that is so complicated and expensive that it allows greedy douchebags to bypass the regulatory safeguards of the free market. Example: if I were a greedy douchebag, I could probably charge a lot of ice cream if the government said no one else could sell dessert. However, with all kinds of desserts and ice cream on the market, more than about $4 for a half gallon is pushing it.
    ice cream is a bad example, most things are. You don't need ice cream or any other desert to live. We have regulations on EpiPens too just like you guys. Difference is we set the price on the product. We give you a patent but you need to get your price approved by the Patent Medicine Prices Review Board. So instead of paying 300 per epipen we pay under 100. And the company still makes plenty of money on them.

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    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    i guess what i'm saying it you guys don't have "regulations", you have owned politicians. Regulations wouldn't allow what's happening.

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    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    ice cream is a bad example, most things are. You don't need ice cream or any other desert to live. We have regulations on EpiPens too just like you guys. Difference is we set the price on the product. We give you a patent but you need to get your price approved by the Patent Medicine Prices Review Board. So instead of paying 300 per epipen we pay under 100. And the company still makes plenty of money on them.
    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    i guess what i'm saying it you guys don't have "regulations", you have owned politicians. Regulations wouldn't allow what's happening.
    But that's where this gets complicated. The average cost to get a treatment to market is $1.8 billion. As they say, the first one costs $1.8 billion, the others cost pennies each. When foreign governments price fix, it's fine as long as the retail price is above the actual cost to manufacture it. That's balanced out by charging higher prices than they otherwise would need to in the US. Now, I am not saying pharmaceutical companies don't do well, but if we completely limited their profitability in the US, we run into problems not just here, but globally, because we're responsible for the vast majority of new research and treatments. They get filthy rich here, but they also come up with a bunch of new treatments. It's no accident that the place where they can profit handsomely is also the place where most new ideas come from. We can lower prices, but we'd also retard advancements. That's great for the kid with an allergy, not so much for the mother with Zika.

    The problem with the regulatory scheme, Mike, is that we're constantly angry at the people who pay for favors, but we never stop to think, "Should government be dictating that?" As I mentioned, the federal government essentially required schools to carry the EpiPen and no other source of epinephrine would qualify. Now they're lobbying for mandated carrying on airplanes. Instead of being pissed at EpiPen, maybe we should ask what business it is of the federal government to require medicine be kept by a private airline? If government couldn't do that, then they wouldn't get lobbied to do it. Today, government in the US nearly has unlimited powers. Why are we surprised that human beings want to influence that power?

    The other tragedy here is that Teva, an Israeli company, has been trying to get a generic version of EpiPen's injector on the market for 10 years. And while it holds up to the same standards as EpiPen, the FDA keeps rejecting it because of a possible failure rate amongst those who don't know how to use it properly. But since most people never use their EpiPen's, the failure rate is similar. But the FDA says the generic has to do better. That's bullshit. The FDA is a terrible, terrible entity that needs a total revamp at best.

 

 

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