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  1. #1
    Hang 'Em High Reckless Fable's Avatar
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    11.28.17 @ 10:56 AM
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    Default What Would a 1997 Release with DLR Been Like?

    Ok, time machine time. I get my time machine, I go back and kill Hitler first, then I go out and steal all the black and white makeup ever, so KISS is destroyed without harming anyone. THEN, I go back and pull the fire alarm at the MTV Music Awards and everyone has to exit and no show.

    VH stays together with Dave.

    Now, instead of doing two tunes on BOV, they become two tracks on a new album they all decide to do together.

    OK, I know some of you are just going make-up hyperbolic songs that never existed to say it would have rivaled Led Zep IV, or it would have been so bad that VH3 would have been in comparison like, um, Led Zep IV. So, have fun with what that entirely predictable thread will look like.

    BUT, I'd like to tap into the forensics. We know that Ed had material THEN that found its way onto VH3 of course, but also ADKOT.

    I'm wondering what you think a Glenn Ballard produced record in that likely would have come out in '97 could realistically, based on what we know, could have been like. Obviously, lots of room for speculation and interpretation, but I know there are a lot of people here who know the origins of certain tunes.

    So, lets play.

  2. #2
    Atomic Punk Raldo's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 03:59 AM
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    Default

    I think they definitely would have waited until Dave got his voice into shape.
    From what I remember from interviews, just to do the 2 BOV1 songs, it took awhile.
    I think musically, it would have been really cool!!
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  3. #3
    Atomic Punk I Coulda Hada VH's Avatar
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    Default

    It would have rocked like a Jell-O wrestling match between Margot Robbie and Minka Kelly.
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  4. #4
    Hang 'Em High Reckless Fable's Avatar
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    11.28.17 @ 10:56 AM
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    Default

    Not qualitatively....I'm saying specifically, knowing the bits, riffs and songs that Ed was working on then, what it could have been like...

    We all know the Dave guys think it would have been the greatest ever and the Sam guys will think it would have sounded like they all recorded the time they went duck hunting.

    K, I'll start. Giving where they were with MWM & CGTSNM, the tone of the album would have been produced by Ballard with a little more edge.

    So, we know that Ed had the Dirty Water Dog riff for a long time. It was almost an entirely written song with "I Want Some Action" in 86. He'd been sitting on that one a while.

    I think that riff/song would have been used and the clean channel that ended up making it on VH3 would NOT have been used. I think Dave would have been in his sweet spot with that song. Especially when he does that low scatty singing thing as the riff main riff trails.

    I always loved that riff with Ed. They softened it because of the direction and tone that VH3 went in. It would not have been used so "lightly" by Ballard and DLR.

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  6. #5
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    Default

    MWM is a bit of an anomaly in the vh catalog, doesn't really remind me of anything else they did much. there's almost something like proto nu-metal riffing in there. maybe Ed would've persued that kind of direction? I think despite dave, a 97 album with him on board would've been more 'serious' vh than party time vh. that just seemed to be where Ed was at musically (imo)

  7. #6
    Atomic Punk RRvh1's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 06:36 AM
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    Default

    Judging by Ed's remarks about Dave struggling in the studio, I think it's unlikely that such an album would've been an actual "thing" that year. Maybe the tail end of the year.

    Regardless, it didn't pan out. What if Charles never married Diana?
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  8. #7
    Good Enough DRFC's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 08:02 AM
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    Default

    So many other moving parts made that time period more than just Dave not being there.

    Would Mikey be playing bass on more than three songs? Would Ed want total control? I mean, I don't care if Ed agreed to do an album with Dave. If he pushed for How Many Say I to make the record, Dave would have walked out the door.

  9. #8
    Hang 'Em High Reckless Fable's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRFC View Post
    So many other moving parts made that time period more than just Dave not being there.

    Would Mikey be playing bass on more than three songs? Would Ed want total control? I mean, I don't care if Ed agreed to do an album with Dave. If he pushed for How Many Say I to make the record, Dave would have walked out the door.
    I'm not sure this is how things would have went down. I think Ed (in his mind) getting burned by Sam, then by Dave again, said, "Ok mutherfuckas, this shit is all me from here on out."

    Ballard was a more influential and positive producer, too. Mikey is all over those two BOV songs. I think Ballard would have burned the piano before the first "Have you ever" was uttered.

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  11. #9
    Atomic Punk JUNGLE DRUMMER's Avatar
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    Default

    Well, under Ballard's production and Erwin Musper's engineering, MWM and CGTSNM are the best studio tracks, sonically, of VH's career. If they kept that same formula for an entire album, with the undeniable push/pull chemistry that Dave and Edward have had on EVERY recording they've ever done, then I believe it could have been an incredible and big album followed by an even bigger tour. I know I've always wanted a full album with that awesome, huge drum sound Al had on the BOV1 tracks.

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  13. #10
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    12.23.16 @ 10:32 AM
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    Default

    I'd rather they go back to Bruce Fairbairn for producer rather than Ballard.
    Bruce got their best sound on Balance while the Ballard songs don't sound full like they should. Even Humans Being is a little flat sounding compared to stuff on Balance.

    Was Ted still doing records back then? Because if not Bruce then why not reunite everyone and use Ted as well.

    Either way it would have sounded better than VH3 and ADKOT because Dave sounded much better back then.

    Who knows what the album would have been, but a tour back then with the four ORIGINALS with proper promoting (not just tweets by Cody ) would have been huge like the KISS reunion was that year.
    Last edited by Greenpaw; 07.19.16 at 03:05 PM.

  14. #11
    Hang 'Em High Reckless Fable's Avatar
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    Default

    So what other bits of songs could have made it on this hypothetical album? Blood and Fire had the music done. The main riff from As Is was something Ed played at NAMM around then, too.

  15. #12
    Banned! Odin's Magick's Avatar
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    Default

    It would have sucked.

  16. #13
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    I think the '97 album with Dave would have sounded really good. To me, Humans Being, Me Wise Magic and CGTSNM are great tunes musically. There were some tunes/music from "3" that would sound good with Dave - Fire in The Hole, Dirty Water Dog,

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  18. #14
    Eruption
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reckless Fable View Post
    So what other bits of songs could have made it on this hypothetical album? Blood and Fire had the music done. The main riff from As Is was something Ed played at NAMM around then, too.
    I think Big Trouble would have been used. I always loved that original track. Big River is great, but I liked where Dave was lyrically back then and I think he would have written better lyrics

    I could also see Fire in Hole getting worked in there, that song seems right up the alley

    Dave would have struggled creatively and lyrically with that's why I love you

    I'd be very interested to see what Dave would have done with the without you music

    I still dig without you, and I think Dave could have rocked that, that's my two cents

    Staying far away from the usual Dave and Sam banter

    I also think Ballard could work great, personally the tone on the BOV tunes is one of my favorites, Ed was tearing it up back then
    He really blossomed on Balance and those three tunes creatively and I think was hitting a great stride
    Also having Mikey on background could have turned a warm fart into a bunt cake back then

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  20. #15
    Atomic Punk I Coulda Hada VH's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Odin's Magick View Post
    It would have sucked.
    So, you didn't like Me Wise Magic or Can't Get This Stuff No More?
    "It's so lonely at the top because it's so crowded at the bottom" - Diamond David Lee Roth

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