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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
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    Default Why You're Not a Jerk for Firing a Longtime Employee

    http://fortune.com/2016/05/30/firing-loyal-employee/


    Frank has been with us for more than 20 years. He works in the warehouse and has done a good job for us. I like him. But, to be honest, for the work he performs I could easily replace him someone younger and… cheaper. Would it be wrong to let him go?


    And the costs are rising, right? You’re increasing Frank’s salary every year, at least by the cost of living. And that’s not all. You’re contributing to his healthcare and his 401(K). He’s earning more and more vacation each day that he’s working for you. And as he gets older, you’re increasing the risk that he will cost your company more – maybe he gets injured or needs financial assistance because he’s not putting enough away for his retirement. Sure, he’s got experience. He’s proven. He’s a known card. But he’s costing you. And you know you can get the same job done by someone else for less money. I see this with many of my clients, and it’s a complicated issue. Are you a heartless cad if you let this guy go? Doesn’t loyalty count for anything? The guy’s given you 20 years of his life, and you’re just going to cut him loose? You must be some kind of awful person.

    Actually, no you’re not an awful person. I am not encouraging that you should discriminate based on your employee’s age. Age discrimination is against the law. However, your job is to make the decisions. The hard decisions that are necessary to grow your business and ensure it as a going concern for years to come. Why? Because you have employees, customers, partners, suppliers and everyone’s family members (including yours) that rely on you and your company for their livelihoods. And their interests should rise above the interest of any one specific person. OK, maybe you don’t have to be so harsh. Maybe you can ease him out over the next two years. Or find another role for him where he could actually be more productive for you (Driving a forklift? Maintenance? Customer service?) as he gets older. But if you’re letting your overhead get too high and your profitability becomes negatively-impacted because you’re unable to make those hard choices, then you’re hurting everyone who depends on you.
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.” -- Gen. George S. Patton

  2. #2
    Atomic Punk japeape's Avatar
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    Default

    This is the pattern all businesses are following, currently.
    People have become disposable, sadly, no matter their experience or loyalty.
    My friend, 45 years old, with loads of experience, was forced out of his job
    of ten years, three years ago.
    He has interviewed endlessly.
    Still unemployed.

    Then there was an article about Generation Y (or Z), and how they are great,
    because they are super eager & expect zero loyalty from their employers.
    The ideal employee, apparently.

  3. #3
    Baluchitherium Ted Van Halen's Avatar
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    I've been with my company 23 yrs. I dreamed I got laid off the other night. It's probably gonna happen at some point. I am highly specialized in what I do and experience is key as one small mistake can cost tens of thousands of $. Not to mention the ill will earned when customers start getting warranty returns. It's inevitable though. "Human Capital" is a commodity in endless supply.
    -TVH-


    If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace. -Thomas Paine


    What is government itself but the greatest of all reflections on human nature? - James Madison


    Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the Government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian. - Henry Ford

  4. #4
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 05:21 PM
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    Default

    One of the main reasons I still go to school at 45 years old to keep adding degrees, adding certifications, etc.

    I never want to be in the position that I can't find a job. I have no problem with working below what I think I should be doing, I don't have that kind of ego. I just want to make sure I can always have a paycheck.
    Taylor Swift is nice to look at. Adele can sing.

    Emperor Brett - "I can't believe you guys are analyzing song-by-song Van Halen III? What next, analyzing the script of Stroker Ace looking for some shred of Citizen Kane?"

    David Lee Roth did the impossible. He made Van Halen better. Deal with it!

    Preferred pronouns: he/him/his

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    DONATE TO THE LINKS YA CHEAP BASTARDS!!!!

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  6. #5
    Gird your loins Daisy Hill's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 07:55 PM
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    Default

    years ago I dreamed of owning my own bookstore and took a class offered by the American Booksellers Association on the realities of running a book shop these days

    one of the most hotly debated topics was when is it right to let a long term employee go.

    The issue was that in many cases you hire a employee at a wage and that wage increases in the short term due to their learning skills that improve your business. but at a certain time, many positions do not progress like that and it becomes harder and harder to justify an increased wage. With many small retail businesses there is little turnover and you have long term employees who get yearly raises until they are at a point where it becomes a drain for the business.

    so do you continue to give raises and continue on in the same manner when the core of the thing is that it threatens your financial health and perhaps leads to making the decision to lay off...or even close?

    one school of thought was that if the employee was not being more productive it was actually a reflection on ownership/management. That there should always be ways for that employee to be more productive. But in reality, if you have an employee on a retail level, just how involved can that get?

    my thought is that it depends on the job description. First you have to stick to merit raises. If this employee can justify their pay thru their productivity, fine. But if you get to a point where you are paying someone 18 an hour to do a 9 an hour job, you are being irresponsible to the point of endangering everyone's livelihood. Tough choice.

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  8. #6
    Baluchitherium
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    08.21.17 @ 09:32 PM
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    Default

    Who says younger is better. I see young people everywhere that completely suck at their jobs. I don't see pride and effort being that much better with this generation. You might go thru ten younger people before you find one that's half way decent. Or do that cycle for years.

    I don't want an entire staff of inexperience. If I'm the boss I'd want someone their that could run the joint if I'm unable too. Or just wanna get the hell out of their once in awhile.

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  10. #7
    Atomic Punk RRvh1's Avatar
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    I'm a factory worker. Good pay scale & perks, yet it's shit work. "The Man" is trying to make earning day-to-day wages an absolute nightmare.
    Recent months have seen me miserable/irritable/antisocial, and just off my game.

    Having said that, I'm actually stellar at what I do. Provided the crew I'm assigned to does what is supposed to be done.
    Funny thing is... I've been trying to train kids half my age and twice my size, who can't cope/keep up...
    "There's too many people on this basketball that's floating around the sun, who are too afraid to allow themselves to FEEL" - Edward Van Halen
    "Van Halen was never about the singer..." - a very wise fan.
    "Embrace the past. Live in the moment but keep your eyes on the future, and keep on moving forward..." - Richie Sambora

  11. #8
    Atomic Punk Raldo's Avatar
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    12.12.17 @ 02:44 AM
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    Default

    Give companies an excuse to keep you. Although, that doesn't always work but it's something I strive for.
    Remember the Heroes - 9/11/01

    In 2012, the phoenix has risen!!

    "High speed, low drag."

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  12. #9
    Atomic Punk japeape's Avatar
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    Default

    It's all about saving a few pennies as opposed to looking at the bigger picture.

    Working at a major book store chain, the one thing we had over Amazon,
    was old school booksellers with incredible knowledge and a passion for actual
    books.

    Customers would come in, get hands on treatment & recommendations, feel good
    about their purchase & come back.

    That changed.
    The experienced workers with all the knowledge suddenly became a drain
    on resources, and ultimately, disposed of.

    In their place you get several part-timers, kids, that say:
    Charles who? Bukowski? How do you spell that?

  13. #10
    Atomic Punk jrk5150's Avatar
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    12.11.17 @ 07:48 PM
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    Been in HR for over 20 years, done my share of layoffs.

    And in that original scenario, yes, you are a bad person and a jerk if you fire that employee just because someone else can do the job for less. Unless it's a going out of business unless I cut costs decision, doing stupid shit like that will ultimately cost you profits because your staff won't go above and beyond for you in that kind of environment. After all, most people can get someone else to pay them more for doing the job they do for you, too. Especially the ones that are high performing.

    You NEVER make it about money, because there's always a deeper pocket around the corner. Bad business.

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  15. #11
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by japeape View Post
    It's all about saving a few pennies as opposed to looking at the bigger picture.

    Working at a major book store chain, the one thing we had over Amazon,
    was old school booksellers with incredible knowledge and a passion for actual
    books.

    Customers would come in, get hands on treatment & recommendations, feel good
    about their purchase & come back.

    That changed.
    The experienced workers with all the knowledge suddenly became a drain
    on resources, and ultimately, disposed of.

    In their place you get several part-timers, kids, that say:
    Charles who? Bukowski? How do you spell that?
    But the business didn't make that decision; customers did. I feel for those people, but now you have the ability to crowd-source recommendations with reviews, find people online you have stuff in common with and make recommendations (much like people do with music on this board), and have the book delivered to your door for the same price as going to the book store.

    I miss the days of browsing the music stores and looking at CDs. When I worked at a mom and pop musical instrument store, people liked to come in and shoot the shit about music, gear, etc. But that didn't necessarily translate into sales if you didn't carry what people wanted (we had an ongoing discussion with our owner about the floorspace given to baby grand pianos versus turning people away on accessories we didn't carry, but could with that floorspace). But today it's even better. I get to HEAR any music I want, get recommendations from all kinds of diverse people, and I can do it all from my home.

  16. #12
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Default

    Corporations are getting leaner and leaner. All the banks up here, despite obscene profits, are cutting between 4-6% of their staff. It's depressing for people entering the workforce. Worse for older people who are being let go and entering the labour force. Never a more important time to have cash in reserve.

    Sent from my Z10 using Tapatalk

  17. #13
    Atomic Punk RRvh1's Avatar
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    Default

    "Good luck with your layoffs..., I hope your firings go really well!" - "Peter" from Office Space.
    Great movie!!!
    "There's too many people on this basketball that's floating around the sun, who are too afraid to allow themselves to FEEL" - Edward Van Halen
    "Van Halen was never about the singer..." - a very wise fan.
    "Embrace the past. Live in the moment but keep your eyes on the future, and keep on moving forward..." - Richie Sambora

  18. #14
    Atomic Punk japeape's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    But the business didn't make that decision; customers did. I feel for those people, but now you have the ability to crowd-source recommendations with reviews, find people online you have stuff in common with and make recommendations (much like people do with music on this board), and have the book delivered to your door for the same price as going to the book store.

    I miss the days of browsing the music stores and looking at CDs. When I worked at a mom and pop musical instrument store, people liked to come in and shoot the shit about music, gear, etc. But that didn't necessarily translate into sales if you didn't carry what people wanted (we had an ongoing discussion with our owner about the floorspace given to baby grand pianos versus turning people away on accessories we didn't carry, but could with that floorspace). But today it's even better. I get to HEAR any music I want, get recommendations from all kinds of diverse people, and I can do it all from my home.
    Yeah, all true.

    I remember raving about an older woman named Carole that literally read every book ever
    released.
    She was truly passionate about writers, and working in a bookstore was her dream job.

    I recall my manager, at the time, saying: Yeah, but computers can do all that now.

    I thought, Not really.

    A computer blurting out recommendations versus a passionate human voice & person,
    listening & understanding the authors you like and making suggestions based on
    that.

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  20. #15
    Good Enough Tropical Storm Tracey's Avatar
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    This is why I work for myself.

 

 

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