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    Default Liberal NYT Op-Ed Writer Takes Liberals to Task Over Their ‘Intolerance’

    Liberal NYT Op-Ed Writer Takes Liberals to Task Over Their ‘Intolerance’ — and They Aren’t Very Happy About That

    After liberal New York Times op-ed writer Nicholas Kristof penned his Sunday column, “A Confession of Liberal Intolerance,” conservative readers reacted with delight over Kristof’s breath-of-fresh-air perspective.

    Liberal readers? Not so much.


    “We progressives believe in diversity, and we want women, blacks, Latinos, gays and Muslims at the table,” he begins his column, “er, so long as they aren’t conservatives.”

    From there, Kristof noted the “liberal arrogance” that says conservatives aren’t intellectually equipped to teach certain disciplines at college. He also cited studies showing a third of social psychologists would discriminate against more conservative job candidates if they were as qualified as other candidates, as well as 59 percent of anthropologists and 53 percent of English professors who said they’d be less inclined to hire an evangelical.


    More from Kristof’s column:


    Some liberals think that right-wingers self-select away from academic paths in part because they are money-grubbers who prefer more lucrative professions. But that doesn’t explain why there are conservative math professors but not many right-wing anthropologists.

    It’s also liberal poppycock that there aren’t smart conservatives or evangelicals. Richard Posner is a more-or-less conservative who is the most cited legal scholar of all time. With her experience and intellect, Condoleezza Rice would enhance any political science department. Francis Collins is an evangelical Christian and famed geneticist who has led the Human Genome Project and the National Institutes of Health. And if you’re saying that conservatives may be tolerable, but evangelical Christians aren’t — well, are you really saying you would have discriminated against the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.?

    “Universities should be a hubbub of the full range of political perspectives from A to Z, not just from V to Z,” he concludes. “So maybe we progressives could take a brief break from attacking the other side and more broadly incorporate values that we supposedly cherish — like diversity — in our own dominions.”

    .

    While Kristof’s liberal readers may have been inclined to enjoy the lion’s share of his columns, that didn’t seem to be the case with this one.

    “Is intolerance necessarily a bad thing?” one NYT commenter responded Monday. “As a liberal, I’m intolerant of many things such as human trafficking, racism, sexism, homophobia and anti-feminism. So I too, confess to being intolerant and am not ashamed of it.”

    A Facebook commenter wrote Monday that she “couldn’t agree LESS” with Kristof’s point of view:


    Conservative voices in this day and age are divisive, exclusive, and often cruel. The conservative leadership espouses that crap and there is no reason we need to entertain it. The Ku Klux Klan also has a philosophy built on historical premise — should we also include their voices on campus? We do not have a quid pro quo here. Either conservative voices distance themselves from the sludge that is their leadership or they don’t get a place at the table.

    Another Times commenter had a blunt take: “I don’t understand this thing called ‘liberal arrogance’. Is it arrogant to want to address issues with fact, critical thinking, an empirical viewpoint, one that privileges data and acquisition of real world experience over faith? Liberal arrogance, seems to me, to be just a pejorative for living in the real world, and refusing to apologize for it.”

    As did this responder: “I suppose we might say being intolerant of intolerance is a form of intolerance, but when your whole way of thinking is built upon imposing your personal views on everyone else I think a little intolerance is in order. I will defend every person’s right to believe in whatever invisible omnipotent being, political, social, and economic concept they want but when they force those ideas on others I draw the line.”

    One Kristof reader admitted that “it’s not that conservatives aren’t bright; it’s that, for the most part, they are narrow-minded and are sure they have the right answers. (Think William Buckley Jr or Paul Ryan or Thomas Friedman.) Most that I know or know of don’t have much exposure to the world outside their ideological strata, and not much interested in such exposure; it’s part of being conservative. Who would want such narrow thinkers and true believers to be part of academia?”

    Conservatives who appreciated Kristof’s column very much reflected this Times reader’s response:


    Bravo Mr Kristof. But it’s not just academia. The smug self assuredness of liberalism permeates every aspect of life in our country. Advocates of liberal causes almost always paint the opposing side as venal, stupid, racist etc. then accuse those who hold opposing views of intolerance. Shutting down dissent has a long history on the left, and the most visible example today, President Obama, sets up his straw men regularly. Civil discourse is nearly impossible today and freedom under assault. We need more voices on the left pointing out the cancer eating at the core of our society.

    Read Kristof's column

    A Confession of Liberal Intolerance
    Nicholas Kristof

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/08/op...tolerance.html
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    I actually posted the op-ed in the Harvard thread. It's a good read, and I think fits nicely with a recent column by Dennis Prager and a comment you made earlier. We are basically educating our youth out of knowing what made America different and prosperous.


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    Wait a second. Brook, I thought you only posted articles from a Breitbart!

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    While I wouldn't call myself a conservative, I would say that I do have exposures to other sides. I've heard a fair number of opinions and views. I don't have much respect for Republicans or Democrats. Both sides want to restrict freedoms.

    I will be voting for a 3rd party (as long as it's someone I really believe in) this time. I think the time is right. Trump vs. Hillary bottom of the barrel and people are looking for other options. One single vote doesn't change a whole lot. However, when enough people get fed up with what they're getting, then votes start to really matter. I think enough people are fed up with our two political football teams.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    I actually posted the op-ed in the Harvard thread. It's a good read, and I think fits nicely with a recent column by Dennis Prager and a comment you made earlier. We are basically educating our youth out of knowing what made America different and prosperous.


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    It's not what you think anymore... It's how you FEEL.

    The left is trying to force everyone to love each other.

    It's an admirable thing to want on the surface, but trying to force people to do things will result in backlash and hostility.

    The writer is correct in saying that expressing opposing views will get you tagged with racist and bigot labels. The issue now is that it's boiling over.Progressives have turned the boiler too high and those that oppose them are tired of being nice.

    Of course the other side is bad for calling those that oppose them a "communist". I even hear warmongers and anti gay marriage advocates calling other big government lovers.
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    "I have never seen it, but by all accounts it is terrible. However, I have seen the house that it built and it is terrific."

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    I think it's ironic how some of the quotes talk about how the right "wants to impose their beliefs onto others" as if that's a one-sided concept. I guess they missed the stories about forcing a baker to make a cake for a gay wedding, women to accept a man who "identifies" as a female into the locker room as one of their own, or forcing others to change the way they speak because someone somewhere might get offended by their use of a pronoun.

    I think Motherload was a perfect example of this thinking: I'm right and if you don't agree you're an idiot. They get in their cocoon and don't really listen to ideas outside of their comfort zone. That they openly discriminate against others and then back it up with a belief that they are doing the world a favor by doing it is all the more ironic.
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    The comments that The Blaze includes in their article on this are similar to actual comments that are in Kristof's column. From his article:

    I’ve been thinking about this because on Facebook recently I wondered aloud whether universities stigmatize conservatives and undermine intellectual diversity. The scornful reaction from my fellow liberals proved the point.

    “Much of the ‘conservative’ worldview consists of ideas that are known empirically to be false,” said Carmi.

    “The truth has a liberal slant,” wrote Michelle.

    “Why stop there?” asked Steven. “How about we make faculties more diverse by hiring idiots?”

    It is worth noting not all of the comments are that way. Some self-professed liberals on campus have commented on his Facebook post saying they hate that it is this way because non-liberal students are much more likely to stay quiet in classroom discussions. I think many people are likely reasonable on this issue, and I am sure part of the problem is that conservatives are simply less likely to become college professors. But I can say that from my anecdotal perspective, I only had one conservative-ish college professor, while most were openly liberal. Every single former professor of mine that I am friends with on Facebook is a Bernie Sanders supporter and unwilling to listen to anything that differs with their worldview. I have a friend who teaches college who uses a class that has nothing to do with politics to espouse liberal points of view, often times admittedly without even understanding a topic before toeing the liberal line.

    I am not concerned about the students who are curious by nature and think critically. I am concerned about the standardized test taking students in college now and heading to college whose education is judged on arriving at the correct answer, not how they arrived at it, nor whether or not they can think critically. These are the people that, post-college, will be "on the side of science" when it comes to climate, but not when it comes to GMOs, which is a giant intellectual inconsistency.

    I will also say is that this is a symptom of people not having a consistent or principled philosophy when it comes to public policy. Take this, from the posted Blaze article:

    “Is intolerance necessarily a bad thing?” one NYT commenter responded Monday. “As a liberal, I’m intolerant of many things such as human trafficking, racism, sexism, homophobia and anti-feminism. So I too, confess to being intolerant and am not ashamed of it.”

    Yes, we ALL discriminate and we ALL are intolerant in some way. But to throw human trafficking in there with being intolerant of conservatism is mind-blowing to me. Human trafficking is bad because, in a free country that protects individual rights, we cannot allow groups of people to buy and sell other groups of people. To equate that with being intolerant of what someone else thinks is a comparison that I can't even wrap my mind around. But this is where we have a problem where most people do not have a consistent set of principles or beliefs when it comes to public policy. Private versus public action and majority rule versus individual rights are things that can be blurred based upon how one personally feels about them. That's no way to run public policy. But when conservative thought is lumped in with human trafficking, "hate speech" is argued not to be protected by the first amendment, and words are considered violence on college campuses where conservative voices aren't welcome, well, maybe we are headed towards a version of this country where thinking like a conservative is considered as big of a crime as human trafficking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bklynboy68 View Post
    Liberal NYT Op-Ed Writer Takes Liberals to Task Over Their ‘Intolerance’ — and They Aren’t Very Happy About That

    After liberal New York Times op-ed writer Nicholas Kristof penned his Sunday column, “A Confession of Liberal Intolerance,” conservative readers reacted with delight over Kristof’s breath-of-fresh-air perspective.

    Liberal readers? Not so much.


    “We progressives believe in diversity, and we want women, blacks, Latinos, gays and Muslims at the table,” he begins his column, “er, so long as they aren’t conservatives.”

    From there, Kristof noted the “liberal arrogance” that says conservatives aren’t intellectually equipped to teach certain disciplines at college. He also cited studies showing a third of social psychologists would discriminate against more conservative job candidates if they were as qualified as other candidates, as well as 59 percent of anthropologists and 53 percent of English professors who said they’d be less inclined to hire an evangelical.


    More from Kristof’s column:


    Some liberals think that right-wingers self-select away from academic paths in part because they are money-grubbers who prefer more lucrative professions. But that doesn’t explain why there are conservative math professors but not many right-wing anthropologists.

    It’s also liberal poppycock that there aren’t smart conservatives or evangelicals. Richard Posner is a more-or-less conservative who is the most cited legal scholar of all time. With her experience and intellect, Condoleezza Rice would enhance any political science department. Francis Collins is an evangelical Christian and famed geneticist who has led the Human Genome Project and the National Institutes of Health. And if you’re saying that conservatives may be tolerable, but evangelical Christians aren’t — well, are you really saying you would have discriminated against the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.?

    “Universities should be a hubbub of the full range of political perspectives from A to Z, not just from V to Z,” he concludes. “So maybe we progressives could take a brief break from attacking the other side and more broadly incorporate values that we supposedly cherish — like diversity — in our own dominions.”

    .

    While Kristof’s liberal readers may have been inclined to enjoy the lion’s share of his columns, that didn’t seem to be the case with this one.

    “Is intolerance necessarily a bad thing?” one NYT commenter responded Monday. “As a liberal, I’m intolerant of many things such as human trafficking, racism, sexism, homophobia and anti-feminism. So I too, confess to being intolerant and am not ashamed of it.”

    A Facebook commenter wrote Monday that she “couldn’t agree LESS” with Kristof’s point of view:


    Conservative voices in this day and age are divisive, exclusive, and often cruel. The conservative leadership espouses that crap and there is no reason we need to entertain it. The Ku Klux Klan also has a philosophy built on historical premise — should we also include their voices on campus? We do not have a quid pro quo here. Either conservative voices distance themselves from the sludge that is their leadership or they don’t get a place at the table.

    Another Times commenter had a blunt take: “I don’t understand this thing called ‘liberal arrogance’. Is it arrogant to want to address issues with fact, critical thinking, an empirical viewpoint, one that privileges data and acquisition of real world experience over faith? Liberal arrogance, seems to me, to be just a pejorative for living in the real world, and refusing to apologize for it.”

    As did this responder: “I suppose we might say being intolerant of intolerance is a form of intolerance, but when your whole way of thinking is built upon imposing your personal views on everyone else I think a little intolerance is in order. I will defend every person’s right to believe in whatever invisible omnipotent being, political, social, and economic concept they want but when they force those ideas on others I draw the line.”

    One Kristof reader admitted that “it’s not that conservatives aren’t bright; it’s that, for the most part, they are narrow-minded and are sure they have the right answers. (Think William Buckley Jr or Paul Ryan or Thomas Friedman.) Most that I know or know of don’t have much exposure to the world outside their ideological strata, and not much interested in such exposure; it’s part of being conservative. Who would want such narrow thinkers and true believers to be part of academia?”

    Conservatives who appreciated Kristof’s column very much reflected this Times reader’s response:


    Bravo Mr Kristof. But it’s not just academia. The smug self assuredness of liberalism permeates every aspect of life in our country. Advocates of liberal causes almost always paint the opposing side as venal, stupid, racist etc. then accuse those who hold opposing views of intolerance. Shutting down dissent has a long history on the left, and the most visible example today, President Obama, sets up his straw men regularly. Civil discourse is nearly impossible today and freedom under assault. We need more voices on the left pointing out the cancer eating at the core of our society.

    Read Kristof's column

    A Confession of Liberal Intolerance
    Nicholas Kristof

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/08/op...tolerance.html
    The comments attacking his column are illustrative.

    It's like the Dunning-Kruger effect where incompetent people are too incompetent to realize that they're incompetent.

    Did these dipshits even read what they wrote before the clicked "send?"

    “I suppose we might say being intolerant of intolerance is a form of intolerance, but when your whole way of thinking is built upon imposing your personal views on everyone else I think a little intolerance is in order. I will defend every person’s right to believe in whatever invisible omnipotent being, political, social, and economic concept they want but when they force those ideas on others I draw the line"

    Hmm. I don't know any true conservatives that want to force their ideas on others. That's what liberals do. The gay wedding cake being a perfect example. The conservatives that I know (myself included) just want to live our lives in peace and be left the fuck alone.

    "I don’t understand this thing called ‘liberal arrogance’. Is it arrogant to want to address issues with fact, critical thinking, an empirical viewpoint, one that privileges data and acquisition of real world experience over faith? Liberal arrogance, seems to me, to be just a pejorative for living in the real world, and refusing to apologize for it."

    Ahh, yes. The good ole liberals just want to address issues with "fact" and "live in the real world." You know. The real world where money grows on trees, we can solve everyone's problems if we just tax the rich a little more, that there's no negative consequences to jacking up the minimum wage to $15 an hour, we can make college "free" for everyone, and maybe if we negotiate and appease dictators like Hitler and Stalin, they'll make nice with us. I could go on and on but I don't want to waste the space.

    Is intolerance necessarily a bad thing?” one NYT commenter responded Monday. “As a liberal, I’m intolerant of many things such as human trafficking, racism, sexism, homophobia and anti-feminism. So I too, confess to being intolerant and am not ashamed of it.”

    Nice try. It is you liberals that see race, gender, sexual orientation and every other "ism" under the sun in EVERYTHING! It permeates your entire world view and dominates your daily thoughts. And - if you're allowed to be intolerant of conservatives, then I guess that means I have the right to be intolerant of any of the groups you mentioned. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. If you're going to run around screaming "tolerance" you don't get to selectively choose what deserves to be tolerated and what doesn't. But it doesn't surprise me that hypocrisy would come out of the mind of a liberal.
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    I would love Gary Johnson to be able to get to the 15% polling threshold so he could participate in the debates.

    I think seeing a sensible person argue for less government and more personal freedom who can make it intelligently would be nice contrast for the average American voter to see.

    Will never happen, but a man can dream.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    I would love Gary Johnson to be able to get to the 15% polling threshold so he could participate in the debates.

    I think seeing a sensible person argue for less government and more personal freedom who can make it intelligently would be nice contrast for the average American voter to see.

    Will never happen, but a man can dream.
    There is still an outstanding lawsuit on that to allow participation with more reasonable standards and not the arbitrary 15% polling standard. It was filed originally in 2012 but thrown out on a jurisdictional technicality--that the Commission on Presidential Debates doesn't do enough central business in California, where the suit was filed. Once the suit was thrown out during the last election, it was too late to file to affect the debates that time around. This lawsuit was filed last fall.

    This is different from a separate suit brought against the FEC last summer by an organization called Level the Playing Field, which also has the Libertarian and Green Parties as co-plaintiffs.

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    Gary Johnson is a good guy with good ideas, but I don't think he would fair well in a debate, and I'm not sure he is all that driven. As much as I hate Bernie Sanders policies, there is no doubt he has lot of drive. Gary would be like a Ben Carson in that people would like him for a time, but lose interest in him if there was someone on the stage that comes off as more driven.
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    Look at what Bernie has done as proof that people with low polling numbers have a chance.

    5% should be enough, not 15%.

    Or at a minimum the top three or four political parties.
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    He isn't that driven, which one thing I like about him. As I have said before, it's the ultimate in narcissism to say, "You know who would be good to lead the free world? Me!" I remember reading he goes hiking to avoid calling donors.

    He would do fine in the debates. He's not a wonk, but he's mix it up. You don't have to be specific.

    I think if you're on the ballot in enough states to win and qualify for public funds you should be in the debate. That would add the LP and GP in 2012.


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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    He isn't that driven, which one thing I like about him. As I have said before, it's the ultimate in narcissism to say, "You know who would be good to lead the free world? Me!" I remember reading he goes hiking to avoid calling donors.

    He would do fine in the debates. He's not a wonk, but he's mix it up. You don't have to be specific.

    I think if you're on the ballot in enough states to win and qualify for public funds you should be in the debate. That would add the LP and GP in 2012.


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    Despite my concern that he might struggle against more driven people, I do feel as if people are fed up enough with the parties now that a 3rd option has a bigger chance. People were not quite there in 2012. It still felt like the voters were still jumping on their political football team too much.

    I think we're at that point to where voting for a 3rd party doesn't feel as much like a wasted vote. There is proof that the Libertarian Party is growing and the numbers say that people are looking for other options.

    I'll probably lay down my vote this time. It's time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    I would love Gary Johnson to be able to get to the 15% polling threshold so he could participate in the debates.

    I think seeing a sensible person argue for less government and more personal freedom who can make it intelligently would be nice contrast for the average American voter to see.

    Will never happen, but a man can dream.
    To be honest, as jaded as the normal, common sense American voter is, I would have figured you have a figure well over 15%.

    What even worse, is that guys like GJ are fighting a up hill battle against a system that is designed to basically force them into a dark corner where there message gets lost. And, when I say system, I mean the, DC, Beltway machine and a media system that is so corrupt and one sided.

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