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    Default Libertarian Debate

    blah blah blah Devin Townsend blah blah blah

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    Banned! Motherload's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildman View Post
    Is it really worth it financially to produce a libertarian debate for TV? These people have no chance in hell - so unfortunately this kind of looks like the table for losers, even if have the potential to be the greatest President ever. I am all for them being heard, it just looks pathetic at this point.

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    No better time than now to begin educating American voters that there are more candidates out there. With the Reps and Dems scrambling to control their fracturing parties, and so much public dissatisfaction over the current candidates, now is the time.

    Sure, it will not matter this election, but third party candidates are making bigger strides every election. Revolutions have to start somewhere.

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    Banned! Motherload's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildman View Post
    No better time than now to begin educating American voters that there are more candidates out there. With the Reps and Dems scrambling to control their fracturing parties, and so much public dissatisfaction over the current candidates, now is the time.

    Sure, it will not matter this election, but third party candidates are making bigger strides every election. Revolutions have to start somewhere.

    Sent from my HTC331ZLVWPP using Tapatalk
    Hopefully we get the first gay atheist President soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Motherload View Post
    Hopefully we get the first gay atheist President soon.
    You forgot transgender. Maybe plus size, too.
    blah blah blah Devin Townsend blah blah blah

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    Good Enough pickslide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motherload View Post
    Is it really worth it financially to produce a libertarian debate for TV? These people have no chance in hell - so unfortunately this kind of looks like the table for losers, even if have the potential to be the greatest President ever. I am all for them being heard, it just looks pathetic at this point.
    The answer to your question will be found when the ratings are reported.

    But it is absolutely essential to hear from so-called third parties. The two main parties are essentially shadowy reflections of each other, and their only true disagreement is who gets to be in charge. Any substantive policy discussion in a multi-cultural society of 300 million people requires more than two tired, re-treaded viewpoints.

    TK

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    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    The duopoly do everything they can to keep third parties at bay. Top two primaries, campaign finance reform, making the debate rules...it all has the effect of keeping third parties as footnotes.

    I honestly think Gary Johnson is right that most people are libertarian and just don't know it--they are basically fiscally conservative and socially liberal. They may like programs that benefit them and not like programs that benefit others, but just like other parties there is room for difference of thought along a line from left to right. They may not take what seem like extreme positions, but hell, Gary Johnson is not against anti-discrimination laws which is goes against some fundamental libertarian ideas.

    Only three parties will be on the ballot in all 50 states, and likely only 3 or 4 parties will receive federal campaign funds. Yet the Republicans and Democrats make the rules, so only they will be in the debates. I looked at Twitter after Johnson was on CNN yesterday, and there people saying if Bernie isn't the nominee, they will vote for him. I know a far, far leftist from New Mexico who likes Johnson--he was a Republican elected governor in a state where Democrats outnumber Republicans 2 to 1--and while she would probably vote for Hillary before him, she has told me she actually looks at libertarians as allies because she is much more concerned about social issues that fiscal issues.

    Since he is at 11% in the one poll that included him, I think it is worth taking about breaking up the duopoly. Sure it's a fake number. No one has attacked him--but no one has heard from him either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Motherload View Post
    Is it really worth it financially to produce a libertarian debate for TV? These people have no chance in hell - so unfortunately this kind of looks like the table for losers, even if have the potential to be the greatest President ever. I am all for them being heard, it just looks pathetic at this point.
    looked like an SNL skit.. lol (in production/size, at least)

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    It was an episode of Stossel on Fox Business. He just as easily could have had all three on the show asking questions. He just wanted to make it look like a debate.

    The problem is that no one other than Johnson is going to get the nomination.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Motherload View Post
    Is it really worth it financially to produce a libertarian debate for TV? These people have no chance in hell - so unfortunately this kind of looks like the table for losers, even if have the potential to be the greatest President ever. I am all for them being heard, it just looks pathetic at this point.
    The expansion of the discussion of policy outside of the Democratic and Republican party is worth it. Both parties have failed the country, time for additional voices to be heard. If they let Gary Johnson be a part of the general election debates, and people saw him as a possible real alternative to Clinton or Cruz/Trump, he would get a good chunk of the vote, not the 1% he gets now, maybe 5%, 10%, and that would be a good start.

    But the powers that be will never let that happen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motherload View Post
    Hopefully we get the first gay atheist President soon.
    Hillary will be inaugurated next year, so it's not too long a wait.
    Taylor Swift is nice to look at. Adele can sing.

    Emperor Brett - "I can't believe you guys are analyzing song-by-song Van Halen III? What next, analyzing the script of Stroker Ace looking for some shred of Citizen Kane?"

    David Lee Roth did the impossible. He made Van Halen better. Deal with it!

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    Presidential pre-election polling doesn't mean a whole lot for the Libertarian Party. In 2012, Johnson was polling pretty good for an outside-party candidate, but he ended up just shy of 1% in the general election. I remember other polls where he was even higher than he is here (below), but I'm not going to take the time to find them. If he's polling over 10% in several polls come September, he'll be in the debates. If he's in the debates, he'll score more than 1% in the general. But he's not going to be polling high enough with the right organizations, so he's not going to be in the debates. And he's not going to win his lawsuit to get in either.

    That's all if he's selected as the LP candidate in Orlando next month. The delegates could go with McAfee (no way in hell they'll go with Petersen), but I doubt it. If McAfee's the nominee, his polling numbers will be lower, and he will score lower in the general.

    Wikipedia on Johnson's polling numbers in 2012:

    Polls[edit]
    National[edit]
    10–13 July 2012, JZ Analytics: Barack Obama 43.6%, Mitt Romney 38.0%, Gary Johnson 5.3%, not sure 13.1%[49]
    August 2012, Rasmussen Reports poll includes Johnson for the first time. One in ten likely voters are familiar with him and 1 percent intends to vote for him.[50][51]
    September 2012, CNN poll includes Johnson. 4% of registered voters say that they would vote for him.[52][53]
    November 1, 2012 CNN poll includes Johnson. 5.1% of 796 likely voters indicated that they would vote for Gary Johnson.[54]
    Results[edit]
    On Election Day, Johnson received 1,275,951 votes and 0.99% of the popular vote, setting a record for the most votes won by a Libertarian Party presidential nominee. Johnson's best showing was in his home state of New Mexico, where he received 3.55% of the popular vote.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_J...campaign,_2012

    Wikipedia on Bob Barr's polling numbers in 2008 (Barr ended up with .40 % in the general):

    On July 23, CNN polling placed Barr at 3% in a four-way race, while Zogby placed Barr at 6%.[35] He polled at 8% in Georgia, Colorado, Iowa, and Minnesota, and at 9% in Oklahoma, New Mexico, and Nevada. Surveys in New Hampshire put Barr at 10%.[45]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Ba...campaign,_2008
    Last edited by UncleCrappy; 04.15.16 at 12:26 PM.

  16. #13
    Atomic Punk rocknblues81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motherload View Post
    Is it really worth it financially to produce a libertarian debate for TV? These people have no chance in hell - so unfortunately this kind of looks like the table for losers, even if have the potential to be the greatest President ever. I am all for them being heard, it just looks pathetic at this point.
    Well, things are so fucked that I guess they have no choice. Like I said before... The problem is that the general public is not going to go for someone like Johnson because he doesn't really present himself all that well. I'm not that he is dumb or something (I don't think he is), but you can just look at how he carries himself and you know the general public isn't likely to buy into him.

    Yeah, you could argue that such things shouldn't matter, but they often do. Sad as it is to say. On top of that, it's going to be hard for libertarians to win because they don't just pander to people, and they're not offering anything. Politicians have basically been bribing the voters forever. Promising them everything under the sun. Offering and increase in freedoms isn't enough for people. They have to offered "free" college or favor ability towards religion.... Favors to unions. More wars. Whatever.

    People expect to get something now. Being for Liberty is not enough to win you an election.

    As for John Stossel, when his name is brought up I can't help but to think of this:


    Michael Caine on Jaws: The Revenge:

    "I have never seen it, but by all accounts it is terrible. However, I have seen the house that it built and it is terrific."

    Samuel Johnson 1775 : “Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel”

    "McDonalds is The Antichrist" - Bill Hicks

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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    It was an episode of Stossel on Fox Business. He just as easily could have had all three on the show asking questions. He just wanted to make it look like a debate.

    The problem is that no one other than Johnson is going to get the nomination.
    Johnson is worthy based on policies, but I don't think he presents himself well, and that matters to a lot of people. He will not come off as being Presidential to most people. yeah, I guess you could say the same about Trump and Sanders, but they pander to people in a way that Libertarians will not do. So, it's hard to see someone like Johnson getting far.
    Michael Caine on Jaws: The Revenge:

    "I have never seen it, but by all accounts it is terrible. However, I have seen the house that it built and it is terrific."

    Samuel Johnson 1775 : “Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel”

    "McDonalds is The Antichrist" - Bill Hicks

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSH6ofHbeUw

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    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    Like I said, Johnson's 11% in the one poll so far that includes him is a fake number. He is an alternative and no one has attacked him.

    On the flip side, barely anyone knows what he is about. He is a very likable guy who is actually a bit uncomfortable with everything that comes with running for President, which is a bit refreshing with all the power-hungry people running now.

    Both the Libertarian and Green Parties have sued the Commission on Presidential Debates to get in. We shall see what comes of it. If there was every a year to chip away at the duopoly, it would be this year. I bet he could get 5-10% in the election and be a spoiler. That's all that we need to open the door.

    Johnson isn't a seasoned politician, but he is rarely on TV except for small things or being on Red Eye. Ironically, Citizens United is the only thing that is going to help Clinton compete with all the free coverage Trump gets. And if someone like Johnson can be a spoiler, maybe the Kochs can put some money back into libertarian candidates and not just think tanks which they sit on the boards.

 

 

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