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  1. #1
    Banned! Motherload's Avatar
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    Default Unfortunate Acceptable Loss And The Free Market

    I came across this video by actress Tracy Nelson and while it's a couple of years old - I am curious to hear your response. Her "agenda" is that she just wants to remain alive due to her three times up at bat with cancer.



    Watch this as well.

    Last edited by Motherload; 04.08.16 at 12:23 PM.

  2. #2
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    I think it's great that things are better for her, but she has no idea what a free market is if she thinks pre-Obamacare health care in the US was "free market health care."

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    Banned! Motherload's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    I think it's great that things are better for her, but she has no idea what a free market is if she thinks pre-Obamacare health care in the US was "free market health care."
    So when she was told - sorry, it's unfortunate that you are going to die by her insurance company and millions of other people were told the same thing - what do you classify that under?

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    I was on the Obamacare website about a month ago searching for a plan. The cheapest one (the only one I can reasonably afford) had a 7,000 dollar deductible and it did not cover co pays, prescriptions or hospital visits until I met the deductible. While I'm happy that she and others can get the help she needs, why the fuck should I have to pay 1,200 dollars a year for insurance that will not help except in the absolute worst case scenario? And everyone is required to have a plan no matter how shitty it is so it's not like there will be a lot of competition among the insurance companies to offer better coverage for cheaper prices. There was so much unnecessary shit thrown into that legislation it reeks of special interests and government inefficiency.

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    Banned! Motherload's Avatar
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    This really isn't a discussion per se in support of Obamacare - it's more of a discussion about why people in a country as great as America - are being told by insurance companies - that we are fine with your death and this is somehow acceptable because that's the free market or whatever excuse people want to give.

  7. #6
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motherload View Post
    So when she was told - sorry, it's unfortunate that you are going to die by her insurance company and millions of other people were told the same thing - what do you classify that under?
    To use an easy to understand analogy, let's say minimum wage jobs see a reduction of 2% overall due to the minimum wage in CA rising to $15 hour. Are those lost jobs a failure of the free market or an unintended consequence of the new law?

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    Banned! Motherload's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    To use an easy to understand analogy, let's say minimum wage jobs see a reduction of 2% overall due to the minimum wage in CA rising to $15 hour. Are those lost jobs a failure of the free market or an unintended consequence of the new law?
    We are talking before Obamacare - your healthcare system for many years well before people knew the name Obama.

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motherload View Post
    So when she was told - sorry, it's unfortunate that you are going to die by her insurance company and millions of other people were told the same thing - what do you classify that under?
    Sorry but if you planned ahead better and worked harder, you could have had better insurance...as it's not my responsibility...besides, we have charities and you should have family to help you..."

    "Oh and btw...government sucks and wastes too much money...and something about liberty..."

    Does that cover it, Load?

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    Banned! Motherload's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    Sorry but if you planned ahead better and worked harder, you could have had better insurance...as it's not my responsibility...besides, we have charities and you should have family to help you..."

    "Oh and btw...government sucks and wastes too much money...and something about liberty..."

    Does that cover it, Load?
    That response should be stickied on this forum and new members should be forced to read it before engaging in discussion.

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    Before the individual mandate saying you must have health insurance people with pre exisiting conditions who were not insured at the time of their illness could not get coverage. People who were also employed and changing jobs that had illness and already covered would also be rejected on new group policies after their COBRA expired under the former pre existing conditions clause. I knew a sales rep who changed jobs in the 1980s and 2 weeks before he started his wife had a premature baby. His new companies plan would NOT cover his kids condition and he was up shits creek and ended up bankrupt eventually. To me going back to this would be wrong. However, the law is flawed and needs to be amended because it does not contain costs even with high deductable plans and it has too many regulations that are a burden to employers and employees.
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    Pre-existing conditions should have been covered way before the PPACA, not sure why we needed that abomination of a tax law to address some very simple problems that existed with the American health system.
    Taylor Swift is nice to look at. Adele can sing.

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  14. #12
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    *Sigh* Prior to the Affordable Care Act...

    After WWII, wages were frozen by government mandate. So companies, as an unintended consequence of the law, started offering "benefits" as opposed to "wages," to entice employees and skirt the law. As people got used to this and it created large, diverse pools, insurers liked it, so the government gave employers a tax break for offering insurance through employment versus taxes on wages. So most Americans relied upon their employers for insurance.

    However, an unintended consequence of that was that if you developed a condition, like cancer, then lost your job, which meant you lost your insurance, insurers would deny you for having a pre-existing condition when you tried to by a plan outside an employer pool (an individual plan). Government regulations on what insurers can charge prevented them from being able to charge enough to cover people with preexisting conditions. Insurance is about finding low-risk people to pool with high-risk people. You can't charge those two groups the same thing because, if you did, a competitor could simply woo your healthy clients and leave you with a pool of only sick patients at too low a cost, leaving you bankrupt. And when most people are already in their employer pool, the individual market gets sticky when trying to pool healthy (typically young people who choose to spend money on other things instead of insurance) with riskier people. So those with preexisting conditions were denied coverage.

    Wouldn't making larger pools around multiple states help? Well, states mandate different things in basic health coverage. So if I live in a state that mandates accupuncture and fertility treatments, wouldn't it be cheaper to buy insurance from a state without those mandates? Probably, but the fear is a "race to the bottom" where people buy insurance that does not have enough coverage, which is whatever the state decides is the right amount. So consumers, unlike car insurance, are limited to what is offered only in their own state.

    It is simply impossible for (according to the Department of Health and Human Services) the 1% of people denied insurance coverage to be a failure of the free market.
    Last edited by lovemachine97(Version 2); 04.08.16 at 02:29 PM.

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    Agreed, but as a society, we have decided, and rightly so in my opinion, that said 1% needs to be protected from not having access to medical insurance, at a shared expense for all of us.
    Taylor Swift is nice to look at. Adele can sing.

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  16. #14
    Banned! Motherload's Avatar
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    Another interesting thing is that she is a celebrity of sorts.

    Meaning she probably had a very nice bank account through her acting AND family money when you consider the history of Ricky Nelson and Ozzie and Harriet - not to mention any money the Nelson twins gave her to help. So we are talking millions that were burned through and she was still fucked. No special treatment for her as an actress.

    So what does that say about the average schmo making 40,000 a year that gets the same news. And there are millions of people like that and lose everything.
    Last edited by Motherload; 04.08.16 at 02:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Motherload View Post
    Another interesting thing is that she is a celebrity of sorts.

    Meaning she probably had a very nice bank account through her acting AND family money when you consider the history of Ricky Nelson and Ozzie and Harriet - not to mention any money the Nelson twins gave her to help. So we are talking millions that were burned through and she was still fucked. No special treatment for her as an actress.

    So what does that say about the average schmo making 40,000 a year that gets the same news. And there are millions of people like that and lose everything.
    Tracy is also family with mark Harmon. She got the help she needed. Gunter and Matthew have more money than you think getting their dads royalties. It's sad but she did just fine.

 

 

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