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    Default Mississippi Gov. Signs Sweeping Anti-LGBT "Religious Liberty" Law

    Thank you Mississippi for not letting people down regarding stereotypes of people from Mississippi. You are as bigoted and homophobic as ever.

    The new law will allow businesses, individuals, and broadly defined "religiously affiliated organizations" to refuse service to LGBT people, and effectively denounces transgender people's identities.

    Mississippi now boasts the nation’s most aggressive anti-LGBT law, after Gov. Phil Bryant signed House Bill 1523 into law this morning.

    The first-of-its-kind law will take effect in July, and allow businesses, individuals, and religiously affiliated organizations to deny service to LGBT people, single mothers, and others who somehow offend an individual's "sincerely held religious belief." It also directly targets transgender residents, effectively claiming that one's sex assigned at birth is immutable, and will be the only gender recognized by the state.

    The Republican governor announced that he had signed the bill in a tweet on Tuesday morning. It was accompanied by a statement contending that he signed HB 1523 “into law to protect sincerely held religious believes and moral convictions.”

    “This bill merely reinforces the rights which currently exist to the exercise of religious freedom,” the governor’s statement continued. “This bill does not limit any constitutionally protected rights or actions of any citizen of this state under federal or state laws.”

    Opponents say the legislation, formally called the Protecting Freedom of Conscience from Government Discrimination Act, is one of the broadest anti-LGBT bills in the nation.

    The act states that the government cannot penalize an individual, organization, or business for acting according to the following "sincerely held religious beliefs or moral convictions": that "marriage is or should be recognized as the union of one man and one woman"; that "sexual relations are properly reserved to such a marriage"; and that "male (man) or female (woman) refer to an individual’s immutable biological sex as objectively determined by anatomy and genetics at time of birth."

    "Gov. Phil Bryant's decision to sign HB 1523 into law is unconscionable,” said Jody E. Owens, managing attorney in Mississippi at the progressive Southern Poverty Law Center in a statement. “This newly enacted law — like the draconian anti-LGBT laws in other states — uses the guise of ‘religious freedom’ to justify discrimination, mistreatment and bigotry. It’s the same sort of rationale used by white supremacists in earlier eras to justify slavery and Jim Crow. The estimated 60,000 LGBT people in Mississippi deserve better. We need to stand up for the rights of all people."

    The Human Rights Campaign, which helped organize a rally outside the governor’s mansion Monday night urging Bryant to veto the bill, was similarly pointed.

    “Gov. Phil Bryant adds his name to a list of disgraced Southern governors by signing this hateful and discriminatory bill into law,” said HRC president Chad Griffin in a statement today. “Governor Bryant refused to meet with LGBT people and even turned us away at the door of his office. He refused to listen to business leaders. He refused to listen to Mississippians. And now his state will suffer because of his ignorance and failure of leadership.”

    “This is a sad day for the state of Mississippi and for the thousands of Mississippians who can now be turned away from businesses, refused marriage licenses, or denied housing, essential services and needed care based on who they are,” said Jennifer Riley-Collins, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Mississippi in a statement. “This bill flies in the face of the basic American principles of fairness, justice and equality and will not protect anyone’s religious liberty. Far from protecting anyone from ‘government discrimination’ as the bill claims, it is an attack on the citizens of our state, and it will serve as the Magnolia State’s badge of shame.”

    Mississippi already had a strong Religious Freedom Restoration Act, considered by some to be the first true "license to discriminate" law, enacted in 2014. Bryant has a history of opposing LGBT rights. Last year he argued — unsuccessfully — that individual states should be able to ignore the Supreme Court’s ruling on marriage equality. He has also defended the state's ban on adoption by same-sex couples.

    http://www.advocate.com/religion/201...us-liberty-law

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    It will be struck down, that's why we have a Supreme Court. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 will be expanded to include sexual orientation, hopefully this will spurn the Court into action. As of right now, I think approximately 20 states include sexual orientation as a protected class for public accommodation. And let's get that clear Bible thumpers...we are just talking about public accommodation as defined by the 1964 Act, you don't have invite them to dinner, but if you are a restaurant, you should have to serve them a cheeseburger and fries if they are willing to pay for it.

    Only 2% of Mississippi is LGBT? Thought it would be more.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    It will be struck down, that's why we have a Supreme Court. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 will be expanded to include sexual orientation, hopefully this will spurn the Court into action. As of right now, I think approximately 20 states include sexual orientation as a protected class for public accommodation. And let's get that clear Bible thumpers...we are just talking about public accommodation as defined by the 1964 Act, you don't have invite them to dinner, but if you are a restaurant, you should have to serve them a cheeseburger and fries if they are willing to pay for it.

    Only 2% of Mississippi is LGBT? Thought it would be more.
    So if I'm a photographer do I have to shoot a gay wedding?

    I'm not talking about the law here. I'm asking if you believe a photographer should be forced to shoot a gay wedding against his/her wishes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Get The Show On The Road View Post
    So if I'm a photographer do I have to shoot a gay wedding?

    I'm not talking about the law here. I'm asking if you believe a photographer should be forced to shoot a gay wedding against his/her wishes.
    Is that actually an issue? Or is the photographer (baker, florist, whatever) who doesn't want to shoot it just making a big deal out of something that needn't be? I'm a professional photographer (commercial / editorial not weddings though) and I'll often get inquiries about jobs that for one reason or another I don't want to shoot. When that happens, first thing I do is check with some other photographers in town and see of any one them do want to shoot it, and at least one will always say yes. Then reply to the inquiry saying "sorry, I'm not available but give this guy a call". No one gets offended.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cfimages View Post
    Is that actually an issue? Or is the photographer (baker, florist, whatever) who doesn't want to shoot it just making a big deal out of something that needn't be? I'm a professional photographer (commercial / editorial not weddings though) and I'll often get inquiries about jobs that for one reason or another I don't want to shoot. When that happens, first thing I do is check with some other photographers in town and see of any one them do want to shoot it, and at least one will always say yes. Then reply to the inquiry saying "sorry, I'm not available but give this guy a call". No one gets offended.
    It was for a lady in New Mexico who was fined and ultimately lost her business for refusing to shoot a gay wedding.

    The example really doesn't matter. The bigger issue I was trying to get at was finding out if people think it is okay for the government to force private entities to enter in to contracts against their will.
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    I would hope that we come to the point as a nation that if a person or group of persons is polite and has the money to pay, and they want to pay for a service or product that you provide, that what they do in the privacy of their own home is none of the business owner's concern.

    So let me answer your question with a question.

    Do you believe it is ok for the government to force restaurants to not have different sections and different bathrooms for White patrons and non-White patrons?

    Do you believe a restaurant should be able to say "no, we don't serve blacks here" or "no, we don't serve Catholics here"?
    Last edited by Dave's Dreidel; 04.06.16 at 07:17 AM.
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    Default Mississippi Gov. Signs Sweeping Anti-LGBT "Religious Liberty" Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    It will be struck down, that's why we have a Supreme Court. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 will be expanded to include sexual orientation, hopefully this will spurn the Court into action. As of right now, I think approximately 20 states include sexual orientation as a protected class for public accommodation. And let's get that clear Bible thumpers...we are just talking about public accommodation as defined by the 1964 Act, you don't have invite them to dinner, but if you are a restaurant, you should have to serve them a cheeseburger and fries if they are willing to pay for it.

    Only 2% of Mississippi is LGBT? Thought it would be more.
    Dude, it's Mississippi. All people care about is the casinos and the peavy plant. It's the south's armpit.

    And I have to drive through there going to New Orleans 8 times a year. It's a shithole.

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    It really just comes down to human decency. In the case of most businesses this should 100% be a non issue. If you're a pizza place then the sexual orientation of your customers means nothing. Just make the fucking pizza and take the money. In a case like the photographer from new Mexico (I think) it was just unreasonable people acting that way. If you're really uncomfortable shooting a gay wedding how bout respectfully recommending someone who will. And if you're the customer how bout just understanding that hiring someone who is excited about taking your cash is the way to go. If government needs to get involved it means we have failed to act well.

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  13. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    I would hope that we come to the point as a nation that if a person or group of persons is polite and has the money to pay, and they want to pay for a service or product that you provide, that what they do in the privacy of their own home is none of the business owner's concern.

    So let me answer your question with a question.

    Do you believe it is ok for the government to force restaurants to not have different sections and different bathrooms for White patrons and non-White patrons?

    Do you believe a restaurant should be able to say "no, we don't serve blacks here" or "no, we don't serve Catholics here"?
    Yes. I believe that an individual or a private business owner has the right to refuse service to whoever he wishes to. Be that blacks, whites, Catholics, Jews, etc.

    Now, there may be ramifications of this type of behavior, such as going out of business because people find your behavior to be abhorrent. But I would rather the bigot be exposed for who he is then the government be in the business of telling people what they can and can't do, believe, etc.

    I do not believe that people should have the power to force an individual to associate with someone who they wish not, regardless of whether you, I, or anyone else thinks that it is wrong. We do not have the right to force our beliefs on to others, whether one is engaged in business or not is irrelevant. Their right to associate freely does not end just because they open a business.

    I'm guessing most people don't have a problem with a black BBQ owner who would kick out a guy who comes in to patronize his establishment in a white hood. I'm guessing that most people wouldn't have a problem with a Jewish deli owner who refuses to serve a Neo-Nazi skinhead who comes walking in with a vest full of swastikas.
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    It really just comes down to human decency. In the case of most businesses this should 100% be a non issue. If you're a pizza place then the sexual orientation of your customers means nothing. Just make the fucking pizza and take the money. In a case like the photographer from new Mexico (I think) it was just unreasonable people acting that way. If you're really uncomfortable shooting a gay wedding how bout respectfully recommending someone who will. And if you're the customer how bout just understanding that hiring someone who is excited about taking your cash is the way to go. If government needs to get involved it means we have failed to act well.

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    We have a cake shop owner here who has been put through the ringer because he refused to bake a cake for a gay wedding.

    Let's flip the script. Should a gay baker be forced to bake a cake ordered by some religious fundamentalist that says, "God hates gays?" I would argue that the answer is no.

    "If you're really uncomfortable shooting a gay wedding how bout respectfully recommending someone who will. And if you're the customer how bout just understanding that hiring someone who is excited about taking your cash is the way to go. If government needs to get involved it means we have failed to act well."

    Exactly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Get The Show On The Road View Post
    Yes. I believe that an individual or a private business owner has the right to refuse service to whoever he wishes to. Be that blacks, whites, Catholics, Jews, etc.
    Well, we want to live in a different type of country then. I know many Libertarians and conservatives will disagree, but agreeing to sell someone a cheeseburger if they have the money to pay would seem to me a basic part of a modern society.

    Their race, creed or beliefs has zero impact on the business owner, therefore the reason public accommodation laws were put into place. And thank God they were, or you would still have signs in shit holes like Mississippi that looked like this:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Get The Show On The Road View Post
    We have a cake shop owner here who has been put through the ringer because he refused to bake a cake for a gay wedding.

    Let's flip the script. Should a gay baker be forced to bake a cake ordered by some religious fundamentalist that says, "God hates gays?" I would argue that the answer is no.

    "If you're really uncomfortable shooting a gay wedding how bout respectfully recommending someone who will. And if you're the customer how bout just understanding that hiring someone who is excited about taking your cash is the way to go. If government needs to get involved it means we have failed to act well."

    Exactly.
    I can how backing a cake that said "Adam and Steve" instead of "Adam and Eve" would really harm his sensibilities. Makes perfect sense.
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    So here we have a discussion that is perfect regarding rights being applied across the board, even when they are used in ways we find repugnant.

    It's understood that the first amendment, between speech and assembly, provides protection for the right of free association. You can freely associate with whom you want and not associate with whom you do not want. There is no clearer violation of this right than forced segregation, which is what the Jim Crow south was. Sure, racism, even in business, was permissible, but Plessy v. Ferguson was not a case about voluntary segregation. Louisiana had a law that said Blacks must ride on separate rail cars. Yeah, private racism was a problem, but the entire reason to make it law is that racist business owners in cahoots with racist politicians were afraid people, if left free, would act in ways they didn't like.

    There is also no, as far as I can tell, business or corporate exemption to the first amendment. A lot of people wish there were, and some of our laws reflect that wish, but a simple reading of the Constitution shows that you do not lose your rights as a group.

    But what happened to Blacks in this country was so repugnant that we made an exception--one part of the Civil Rights Act said that if you're in a particular business, you cannot discriminate or refuse service to someone based upon race, religion, etc. I completely understand why this happened and I understand why people are in favor of this. However, we understand slippery slopes when it comes to censorship, where we know that if we allow government to restrict free speech in one way, it becomes difficult to control how that may otherwise be used, so we protect it across the board. But people rarely apply this logic to other rights, and it becomes easier to say, 'This one exception to the right of free association is for the greater good.'

    Where this gets tricky is that forced integration, even passed pure of heart for the "greater good," is just as much a violation of free association as forced segregation. The usual reply is that people don't want to live in a world where businesses can just hang a "No Coloreds Allowed" sign and to be perfectly honest, neither do I. But what is worse is the loss of free association rights and the government being able to set parameters, often at the whim of the majority, on who you may and may not associate with. Today, we might feel righteous forcing a bigoted baker to provide a cake for a same-sex wedding, but we probably feel less righteous when that means a Black photographer must shoot the wedding of two KKK Grand Wizards.

    Now, this particular law in Mississippi isn't a very good one and it goes way beyond the parameters of other laws looked at recently, and it is most definitely not a Religious Freedom Restoration Act. But these series of laws are not all that surprising overreactions to forcing people into associations they do not want to be part of.
    Last edited by lovemachine97(Version 2); 04.06.16 at 09:43 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    I would hope that we come to the point as a nation that if a person or group of persons is polite and has the money to pay, and they want to pay for a service or product that you provide, that what they do in the privacy of their own home is none of the business owner's concern.

    So let me answer your question with a question.

    Do you believe it is ok for the government to force restaurants to not have different sections and different bathrooms for White patrons and non-White patrons?

    Do you believe a restaurant should be able to say "no, we don't serve blacks here" or "no, we don't serve Catholics here"?
    Yep. As far as I am concerned - turning down gay people because they are gay is no different than turning down black people because they are black.

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    ^
    ^
    I don't know, maybe because the gay couple probably didn't want the baker swinging dead from the end of a rope while burning a cross right underneath it.

    We live in a society, not an anarchy, and a society has to have a certain basic level of cooperation among its citizens. We have shared assets and expenses as taxpayers, and to refuse a taxpayer service when he or she has helped pave the roads, pay for the schools, pay for the hospitals and fire stations and much more that benefits that business owner as well, both personally and commercially, is lunacy to me.

    Serving someone in a restaurant that you might not like is yes, TECHNICALLY, an infringement upon the concept of free association. But as a society we have determined that certain basic acceptance and behavior toward other genders, races, etc. is just part of being a civilized human being.

    If you don't like gay guys, don't have them over to your house, and don't go to the glory hole and suck dick.

    But if he comes into your ice cream parlor and wants a fucking ice cream cake...make it for him, and take his money.
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