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  1. #1
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    Default California Raises Minimum Wage To $15 An Hour



    A deal to raise California’s minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2022 was reached Monday by Gov. Jerry Brown and state legislators, making the nation's largest state the first to lift base earnings to that level and propelling a campaign to lift the pay floor nationally.

    The increase will boost the wages of about 6.5 million California residents, or 43% of the state’s workforce, who earn less than $15, according to the National Employment Law Project (NELP). The proposal had been headed to a statewide referendum.

    “This plan raises the minimum wage in a careful and responsible way and provides some flexibility if economic and budgetary conditions change,” Brown said. The governor can temporarily suspend the hikes in the event of poor economic conditions or a large budget deficit.

    About a dozen cities have approved bumps in their minimum wages to $15, including Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle and several other municipalities in California.

    In New York, Gov. Andrew Cuomo has proposed a $15 pay floor for New York City starting in 2019 and across the state by 2021. A plan is already in place to hike wages for fast-food and state government workers in both New York City and the state.

    Increases to $15 in New York and California “clearly would create national momentum for other states to follow their lead,” particularly Democratic- leaning coastal states, said Paul Sonn, NELP’s general counsel.

    Under California’s plan, its minimum wage, currently one of the highest in the nation at $10 an hour, would rise to $10.50 in 2017, $11 in 2018 and a dollar each year through 2022.

    The pact was also hailed by labor advocates. “This is a very, very significant increase and for the first time would begin to reverse years of falling pay at the bottom” of the income ladder, Sonn said

    The California legislation follows a series of one-day strikes by low-wage and other fast food workers demanding a $15 wage over the past 3Ĺ years, protests funded by the Service Employees International Union. The crusade was written off as quixotic when it began but NELP officials credited it with prodding lawmakers as well as companies such as Facebook, Google and Nationwide Insurance to set $15 as base pay.

    A $15 wage has even become a centerpiece of the presidential campaign. The Democratic Party adopted a $15 minimum in its platform and Sen. Bernie Sanders supports it. Hillary Clinton has said she backs a $12 pay floor.

    Proposals to increase the federal minimum wage from $7.25 an hour to about $10 have been blocked by Republicans in Congress. Republicans and other critics say the state-level increases will force some businesses to replace workers with technology and even shut down in the face of rising costs.

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/marke...mWC?ocid=fbmsn

  2. #2
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    12.16.17 @ 06:36 AM
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    I am not a fan of government doing things like this, but in my opinion, business has been giving over thirty years to get it right, and they haven't.

    The productivity of the US worker has doubled over the last forty years, and yet the real value of the minimum wage has declined over that period. The article doesn't really detail out how this law effects teenagers, farm labor, service industry labor, etc.

    But getting it up to an inflation adjusted number, and then tying it to CPI just seems like common sense. Will be curious to see the effect on the amount of labor actually used, whether certain businesses pack up and move, what "loopholes" will be in the final law if passed (you know there will be, it's politics, nothing gets passed without loopholes and kickbacks).

    Hard to believe that 43% of the California workforce makes less than $15 an hour. I don't know how people live on that, especially in California. Makes me feel a little guilty for what I get paid an hour. Well, off to spend almost $15 at Starbucks for breakfast. Cherio!
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    I think the article is playing with the truth a little. They say it'll boost the wages of 43% of the state that makes under 15 bucks. That's not true as it'll be 6 years before it's 15 bucks. So assuming 2% inflation they're basically raising the min wage to about 13.25 in today's dollars. I really hope this law includes an annual adjustment at the inflation rate or it'll be more bad policy. Personally I think min wages are better set at a city/region level as min wage in LA should be higher than in some small town.

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    Last edited by It's Mike; 03.29.16 at 04:38 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    I think the article is playing with the truth a little. They say it'll boost the wages of 43% of the state that makes under 15 bucks. That's not true as it'll be 6 years before it's 15 bucks. So assuming 2% inflation they're basically raising the min wage to about 13.25 in today's dollars. I really hope this law includes an annual adjustment at the inflation rate or it'll be more bad policy. Personally I think min wages are better set at a city/region level as min wage in LA should be higher than in some small town.

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    Agreed, and that is one of many reasons that a national minimum wage level should be kept at a certain floor level. $15 in Los Angeles is completely different than $15 in Lincoln.

    Tying it to CPI is just good common sense for a multitude of reasons, both economic and political.
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    This state is in such dire shape, and this bill is poorly written and incredibly wrong headed. Another example of state government trying to circumvent supply/demand capitalism. Wage rates are such that pay should be determined by the number of people willing to fill and work any such position, not by some arbitrary number special interest groups aka: Unions) feel should be some magic number. Thus, if no one is going to bus tables at the steak house, the owner would raise the wage to attract employees, not the State.

    First off, California, is flooded with cheap (and largely illegal) labor that benefits from cheap or free medical care, supplemental income and other freebees that weighs heavily on the middle and upper income tax brackets. The reason especially Southern California has such a large percentage of unskilled, low end labor is that it's coming in from Mexico.

    It is incredibly tough for any business, much less small businesses to get started and survive in this environment. And here we have the dim bulbs in Sacramento pushing a time table for likely unsustainable minimum wages not taking into account future economic situations such as another recession and other unforeseen changing factors.

    Finally, the bill is basically a waste of time as there's all sorts of exemptions and loopholes (many for government jobs of course) and businesses will simply find cost-cutting methods to circumvent the minimum wage like making employees part-time.

    Minimum wage jobs are traditionally those for people (mostly young people) just starting their working career usually in low or unskilled positions. You take your first job flipping burgers or working an assembly line, get some experience and job skills, focus on a career and move on. If you're in your 30's and 40's supporting a wife and family and still making minimum wage, you've made some poor life choices.
    Last edited by T.B.; 03.29.16 at 10:08 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by T.B. View Post
    This state is in such dire shape, and this bill is poorly written and incredibly wrong headed. Another example of state government trying to circumvent supply/demand capitalism. Wage rates are such that pay should be determined by the number of people willing to fill and work any such position, not by some arbitrary number special interest groups aka: Unions) feel should be some magic number. Thus, if no one is going to bus tables at the steak house, the owner would raise the wage to attract employees, not the State.

    First off, California, is flooded with cheap (and largely illegal) labor that benefits from cheap or free medical care, supplemental income and other freebees that weighs heavily on the middle and upper income tax brackets. The reason especially Southern California has such a large percentage of unskilled, low end labor is that it's coming in from Mexico.

    It is incredibly tough for any business, much less small businesses to get started and survive in this environment. And here we have the dim bulbs in Sacramento pushing a time table for likely unsustainable minimum wages not taking into account future economic situations such as another recession and other unforeseen changing factors.

    Finally, the bill is basically a waste of time as there's all sorts of exemptions and loopholes (many for government jobs of course) and businesses will simply find cost-cutting methods to circumvent the minimum wage like making employees part-time.

    Minimum wage jobs are traditionally those for people (mostly young people) just starting their working career usually in low or unskilled positions. You take your first job flipping burgers or working an assembly line, get some experience and job skills, focus on a career and move on. If you're in your 30's and 40's supporting a wife and family and still making minimum wage, you've made some poor life choices.
    this is the biggest issue with what they are doing.

  12. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motherload View Post
    It amazes me that people think that this type of thing happens in a vacuum. Liberals and progressives act like you can arbitrarily raise the minimum wage and there will be no negative consequences to that action. Hence why I posted in a different thread that if $15 is good, why not go to $30?

    Well here is the reality for those who slept through or simply didn't take an economics course. This isn't happening in a vacuum. If you're a business owner, and the cost of the labor that you hire goes up 80-90% (labor generally being the biggest expenditure for a business) you have a couple of options. You can raise your prices 80-90% to recoup your losses. That's generally not palatable because you're going to lose a lot of customers if your $5.00 burger now costs $9.00. Not to mention that now the alleged beneficiary of the increase in the minimum wage has seen their increase in purchasing power vanish leaving them right where they were before.

    The other options are reducing hours, and/or eliminating positions. Let's take a scenario where I have have budgeted $30.00 per hour for labor. Right now I have three full time employees who make $10.00 per hour. You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to lay off one of them and expect the other two to pick up the slack. So now I've gotten rid of a third of my workforce so that I can keep my labor costs in line with my budget. Now imagine that on a larger scale. There's going to be a lot of people losing their jobs. I'd rather make $10.00 an hour than zero.

    Large companies are going to look for other ways too - like more self checkout stands and fewer paid cashiers at the grocery store.

    The real way to improve people's standard of living is for them to learn skills that then translate to employers willing to pay them more, not monkeying around with the labor market by the government mandating an arbitrary wage.
    Last edited by Get The Show On The Road; 03.29.16 at 10:50 AM.
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    ^^^ Great points. As you say, why not just raise it to $25 and everyone can be middle class? Actually, let's make it $75 an hour and everyone can be upper class.

    This is about as valid for increasing wealth as the government printing more money to pay off its debts.
    Last edited by BlindtotheWorld; 03.29.16 at 10:56 AM.
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    So...for those of you who are against a living wage, how do you feel about guaranteed annual income?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlindtotheWorld View Post
    Why not just raise it to $25 and everyone can be middle class? Actually, let's make it $75 an hour and everyone can be upper class.
    Why do those against raising the minimum wage always bring up this fucking stupid argument that is the equivalent of - well if we let gay people get married - what's next? Humans and animals? Pedophile marriages?

    Conservatives and their love of the slippery slope.

    As I said before:

    Why stop at $15? Why not $50? Why not $100? Why not raise the minimum wage to $100,000?

    The reason you don't raise the minimum wage to $100,000 an hour is because it would be unreasonable economically for someone working the drive-thru to make $4 million dollars a week. But I feel like there might be a reasonable place in between the $290 dollars a week they make now, and the $4 million dollars a week.

    The same applies to $4,000 a week at $100 dollars an hour.

    Perhaps we can come to a negotiated and reasonable compromise of $15 dollars an hour instead.

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    Everyone here who is interested knows my opinion on minimum wage, so no reason to get into the weeds on that again. I would say that where you cut numbers off can be misleading. Motherload's numbers above, that 88% are 20 or older, is misleading in that the majority of minimum wage workers are young adults in school, 16-24. That is why that age group is tracked and separated. So cutting it off at 20 is misleading.

    As I have said before, no doubt that some people will be helped. When this is implemented, we will see news stories of people exactly like the left describes--struggling to get by, adults with kids, and now they have gotten a major raise that has made a difference in their life. My guess is that person will be in a populated community like LA County. The problem, to Mike's point about being more local, nearly a quarter of California counties--13 of them--have double-digit unemployment. They are smaller communities without much political voice who will likely be much more negatively affected by this than areas like LA county where income per capita is significantly more because more affluent areas can absorb the increase better. So when we see that person on TV who this helped, remember the smaller communities you won't hear about.

    Los Angeles last year commissioned a report on this because LA's minimum wage will hit $15 before the state's will. The conclusion from economists, according to the LA Times, "[M]any prices will increase, including those that lower-income households commonly face; wages will rise for those in minimum wage jobs that remain employed; employment opportunities for those at the bottom of the skills ladder will be diminished." They also concluded that "[E]mployment growth will slow." The report further states that 20% of businesses who employ minimum wage workers said they would reduce the total number of minimum wage workers they employ. So right there in Los Angeles' research in this, they know that necessarily some people who make minimum wage will become unemployed.

    The problem that we run into is that when minimum wage jobs go away, the median income goes up. When people drop out of the workforce, it isn't accounted for in unemployment numbers the news publishes, so while we know what is going to happen, the numbers will stay pretty good, which helps drive the narrative that this increase is only good with no collateral damage. Just from a purely anecdotal perspective, last year I got a text from an old friend asking me a few things about different jobs. This person owned a franchise of a large pizza chain. The reason was basically this paraphrased quote: "With pizzas staying $5 and minimum wage going up to $15, we can no longer be in the pizza business." They have already shut their doors in anticipation of this, so all of the people they employed have lost their jobs.
    Last edited by lovemachine97(Version 2); 03.29.16 at 11:04 AM.

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    I wonder if me and lovemachine97 have our 36th debate on minimum wage here. Lol

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    Dupe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Motherload View Post

    The reason you don't raise the minimum wage to $100,000 an hour is because it would be unreasonable economically for someone working the drive-thru to make $4 million dollars a week. But I feel like there might be a reasonable place in between the $290 dollars a week they make now, and the $4 million dollars a week.
    I won’t disagree with your point but who decides what that rate is and where is the supporting study to demonstrate its real impact (both positive and negative)? The reality is that the liberal government loves to play class warfare and these initiatives guarantee the lower income voting bloc regardless if it passes. They also are in a no lose situation because even if it passes and there is a negative impact (lost jobs), they can just blame it on the evil corporations.

    I’m all for a balanced approach but this isn’t one.
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