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  1. #31
    Banned! Motherload's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad to the Bone View Post
    as I remember it, Vai was offered a huge amount of money by Coverdale and left for that but he might have been gone after skyscraper either way.

    I think as soon as 5150 was a success, Dave in some ways regretted his decision to leave and YES, I believe it was his call to leave. Ed might have been a prick but I don't think Ed has the balls to actually fire Dave in 1985. I think the fact that 5150 out sold EEAS and the 5150 tour did better than the EEAS tour really burned Dave's ass, I think that's why skyscraper is so different from EEAS. Dave-IMHO-tried to do what VH had done with 5150 when he did skyscraper and it didn't work for some reason.

    by 91, VH was still kicking ass and Dave was an after thought, he was probably steamed at that point.
    I realize that A Little Ain't Enough didn't set the world on fire - even though I really dig that album, but I really wonder who Roth was trying to appeal to with Your Filthy Little Mouth. It's almost like he decided to make an album that would destroy his career. I am surprised that the label didn't reject it. I think they loved the idea of having Van Halen fans buy both albums, but Van Halen fans were not going to be interested in YFLM.

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  3. #32
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    Steve Vai about joining Whitesnake and he smiles when he talks about DLR - as if to say that he happily left the band. I know he wasn't happy with Roth per interviews that I have read.

    As for Whitesnake - it sounds like it's just about the money as opposed to joining the band for the long term with his clarification that he's a member of WS now, but who knows about tomorrow.

    Last edited by Motherload; 03.16.16 at 09:51 AM.

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  5. #33
    Hang 'Em High Reckless Fable's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motherload View Post
    Steve Vai about joining Whitesnake and he smiles when he talks about DLR - as if to say that he happily left the band. I know he wasn't happy with Roth per interviews that I have read.

    As for Whitesnake - it sounds like it's just about the money as opposed to joining the band for the long term with his clarification that he's a member of WS now, but who knows about tomorrow.

    Completely untrue. Wouldn't be a thread if you weren't trying to poke the Dave guys with a stick. Here are the facts:

    http://www.vhnd.com/2012/08/21/steve...avid-lee-roth/

    "Examiner: Talking about other debates in rock circles, people are always analyzing whether the original Eat ’Em and Smile band was better musically than the original lineup of Van Halen. What are your thoughts about this?

    Vai: “Better” is such a subjective term, you know? I just don’t respond to these competitive comparisons. They’re useless and meaningless, because if it’s better for one person and not for another, then they’re both right. Your opinion is the important thing. You can never deny the immense talent, rock credibility and iconic historical contribution that Van Halen made. And Edward Van Halen is a guitar god of the highest order. I have immense respect and love for Edward, you know? I would probably be playing the guitar very differently if he never came along. He’s a totally inspired person.

    When we started Eat ’Em and Smile, Dave got the best musicians he could, who he thought was the best. And I thought it was a hell of a band. It was one of my favorite times in my whole musical career, because we were rock stars, you know? And touring with somebody like Dave, you can’t even imagine what it was like. It was just glorious, man. And I knew it was fleeting, and I knew it was something that I wasn’t going to be doing my whole life, because my brand of music in my own head is very different. So, if you like Van Halen better than the Eat ’Em and Smile band, then you’re right. And if I like Eat ’Em and Smile better than Van Halen, then I’m right. But I don’t like one better than the other. The Eat ’Em and Smile band was fierce. And that’s it.

    Examiner: A lot of people like to adopt a sports mentality when it comes to this. They want to have winners.

    Vai: Yeah, I know. And you know what, it’s a big fucking bore after a while.
    Speaking of big fucking bore...

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  7. #34
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    Seems to be forgotten but Dave worked on 5150 for a couple of months, he just did not dig the material. If he had not left then it would probably have occurred a few years later but was inevitable. Not due to vocals but due to song writing, the gap between the two halves of that song writing team were simply getting too big besides all the ego horseshit. Much of 5150 was EVH and Mick Jones which is why it is so polished. Dave never leaves, no Mick so 5150 would have been a very different record but eventually it had to break up.

    A better question might be what would have happen if the 5150 studio was never built? The source of much of the dynamic change and overall decrease in output correlates to that. What if EVH had to leave his house?

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  9. #35
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    I would add Ed may have had a better chance of bottoming sooner if he had no 5150 studio and Dave still in. That is because he has the advantage of knowing EVH as just Eddie the skinny kid not the guitar legend. That ability to have that reference point may have given a non yes voice to him. The yes men and never having to leave the house really enabled the worse in EVH to take hold. Possibly that could have been helped but Dave had his own issues so who the hell knows.

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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reckless Fable View Post
    Completely untrue. Wouldn't be a thread if you weren't trying to poke the Dave guys with a stick. Here are the facts:



    Speaking of big fucking bore...
    What you just posted doesn't negate anything that I said and I am not trying to attack Dave. Happy during Eat Em And Smile? Sure. It was new, exciting and fun. Skyscraper? Not fun.

    When Vai joined Whitesnake, he did a radio interview where he complained about Roth. He stated that initially it was supposed to be a band situation where everyone gets to have input and make decisions, but it quickly turned into Roth telling Vai what to wear, how to play, what to say and it basically turned into a complete control situation.

    Funny enough, Vai seemed more annoyed by being told what to wear/how he should look over Roth controlling him over his guitar playing. Vai was turned off by Dave's ego and he left. I don't think that's surprising considering Sheehan also bailed.
    Last edited by Motherload; 03.16.16 at 10:20 AM.

  12. #37
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    Ed said in guitar world that Dave only came to a few rehearsals and at most he heard the riffs to a couple of songs (good enough and summer nights if I remember right) and he may have heard dreams but Ed couldn't remember for sure.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad to the Bone View Post
    Ed said in guitar world that Dave only came to a few rehearsals and at most he heard the riffs to a couple of songs (good enough and summer nights if I remember right) and he may have heard dreams but Ed couldn't remember for sure.
    it is curious... IF Dave heard some material and didn't like Ed's direction...you'd figure Dreams, LWI, WCTBL. But from all rumors it was some of the more rocking songs....Still maybe it was all too different to his ears.
    Last edited by thismusicsux; 03.16.16 at 10:28 AM.

  14. #39
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    Going to give this a serious shot.

    I think what happened is that Ted was sort of like Ray Danniels. He became a champion of Dave instead of remembering what made him really want VH in the first place. Eddie. So had Ted cooled his jets on this larger than life personality, maybe he could have exacted some pressure on the guys to play nice. Maybe tell Eddie to cool it with the synth music?

    They honestly could have really blown up with a follow up to 84. Had Ted been involved the production would have probably been better. I much prefer EEAS production over 5150. I think it still could have worked. Had egos not gotten in the way, they would have been bigger than what actually occurred. NOT BECAUSE DAVE IS BETTER THAN SAM. God I hate having to type that out because people believe any positive thing about VH that doesn't include Sam or Dave is a slight.

    The would have been bigger because they would have rode the MTV bandwagon. The band post 84 really didn't embrace MTV until OU812. So they missed out on 3 years. 3 years with a big ham like Dave. I think had they stuck with it, they would have gotten to another level with CVH. MTV would have ate it up

    This would have lasted up until grunge. I don't think they would have put out an album once hair metal was dead. I think Dave would have been considered to be more of a liability at that point. Probably would have created enough friction where they parted ways up until the 2000's

    Just my opinion.

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    Both Dave and Templeton said he had actually recorded vocals to scratch tracks for what would become Summer nights and Good Enough and had WCTBL and another tune that never made it he worked on before walking off.
    It was going to occur eventually.

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  18. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motherload View Post
    What you just posted doesn't negate anything that I said and I am not trying to attack Dave. Happy during Eat Em And Smile? Sure. It was new, exciting and fun. Skyscraper? Not fun.

    When Vai joined Whitesnake, he did a radio interview where he complained about Roth. He stated that initially it was supposed to be a band situation where everyone gets to have input and make decisions, but it quickly turned into Roth telling Vai what to wear, how to play, what to say and it basically turned into a complete control situation.

    Funny enough, Vai seemed more annoyed by being told what to wear/how he should look over Roth controlling him over his guitar playing. Vai was turned off by Dave's ego and he left. I don't think that's surprising considering Sheehan also bailed.
    Interestingly, you can't find the back-up to prove your point which I believe is entirely made up. Some phantom "radio interview" you heard back when George Bush Sr was still in Office.

    Here's some more facts straight from Vai's mouth.

    Here's Vai talking about making Skyscraper...in 1988:

    http://www.guitarworld.com/steve-vai...terview?page=3

    "Fortunately for me and Dave, we do see eye to eye, we do have a lot in common, and that's why we're still in good standing with each other. Because if the kick drum is too loud or too soft, it's all a matter of taste. Music is art, and there's nobody to really say, 'This is the way it should be or shouldn't be.'

    “Of course, you're not gonna go and print your kick drum at + 20dB, either [laughs]. And if I were sitting alone, doing all these things alone, it would just be my own personal taste involved. But with this album it was with Dave, and so we discussed things and came to decisions; that's the way everything went. It's just an informal relationship, y'know.

    “Dave is the executive producer: he's the one who makes all the decisions about what songs are gonna go on the record and things like that, although we talk about everything. And he's very much involved in everything.

    “I'll play him a bunch of different EQ's, for instance, and we talk about whether it needs more or less high end or whatever. Almost every step of the way we took together."

    The album went well, if you judge it by the sonic results; but there was a key casualty along the way. Bassist Billy Sheehan, the fiery two-handed tapper who translated that six-stringer's attack to his own ax with such finesse, left the band once the tracks were completed.

    Stories of behind-the-scenes flare-ups are exaggerated or untrue, according to Vai: "I mean, I wish I could sit here and give you the kind of big gory story that everybody loves to read and start some nice soapy media gossip, because then everybody would want to interview me [laughs]. But I'll leave that to somebody else [laughs], so let me put it to you like this.

    "When two people get together and they're playing music and everything goes fine until one of them wants to do something different, it's best to get together and talk about it, and if one of them decides to move on, that’s it. It was Dave's decision, but it's best for Bill and it's best for Dave; that's at least the way I feel about it. And there don't seem to be any hard feelings going around; it's not like the Van Halen extravaganza [laughs]."

    More to the point in any case, as Vai sees it, is how the band recovered and came back from the blow that Sheehan's departure inevitably dealt them. "The main thing is the band sounds really good now, even if it's a different good from before. You know, Matt is [drummer] Greg [Bissonette]'s brother, and they've played together for their whole lives. So they've really got this chemistry.

    “Even the way they argue is their own language, every way they communicate is their own language. If you slap one guy in the face the other guy feels it [laughs]. They're like Siamese twins. They kid around about it, too: one guy'll drink a beer and the other will spit it out. But the main thing is that they really work together well Greg is a great musician; we only found him after auditioning literally hundreds of people. And then we went out and played 112 shows over six months -- a nice leisurely pace, right [laughs]? But Greg never dropped one beat on that whole tour. Never. He's amazing.

    "Now of course, Bill is a very fine, very very talented musician. So I thought, 'Okay, there's no way we're gonna settle for anything less than something that's gonna work great here.' Greg was very reluctant to mention his brother because he didn't want it to be too awkward for everybody; but then when we heard and saw him play, I was really surprised that he was such a fine player.

    "He's not a flash enthusiast, but he's very very solid, and since the two of them are together all the time, it gives the band a real pump. There's something about the genetic structure of the rhythm section that makes me very happy to be playing with them. It's like what Hendrix must have felt with Billy Cox and Mitch Mitchell as a rhythm section, it's just welded together. These guys are like the Cement Brothers [laughs]."

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  20. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by thismusicsux View Post
    it is curious... IF Dave heard some material and didn't like Ed's direction...you'd figure Dreams, LWI, WCTBL. But from all rumors it was some of the more rocking songs....Still maybe it was all too different to his ears.
    Especially if your ears are being tuned to look for a reason to leave

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad to the Bone View Post
    Ed said in guitar world that Dave only came to a few rehearsals and at most he heard the riffs to a couple of songs (good enough and summer nights if I remember right) and he may have heard dreams but Ed couldn't remember for sure.
    Interesting. What were they rehearsing for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reckless Fable View Post
    Interestingly, you can't find the back-up to prove your point which I believe is entirely made up. Some phantom "radio interview" you heard back when George Bush Sr was still in Office.

    Here's some more facts straight from Vai's mouth.

    Here's Vai talking about making Skyscraper...in 1988:

    http://www.guitarworld.com/steve-vai...terview?page=3

    "Fortunately for me and Dave, we do see eye to eye, we do have a lot in common, and that's why we're still in good standing with each other. Because if the kick drum is too loud or too soft, it's all a matter of taste. Music is art, and there's nobody to really say, 'This is the way it should be or shouldn't be.'

    “Of course, you're not gonna go and print your kick drum at + 20dB, either [laughs]. And if I were sitting alone, doing all these things alone, it would just be my own personal taste involved. But with this album it was with Dave, and so we discussed things and came to decisions; that's the way everything went. It's just an informal relationship, y'know.

    “Dave is the executive producer: he's the one who makes all the decisions about what songs are gonna go on the record and things like that, although we talk about everything. And he's very much involved in everything.

    “I'll play him a bunch of different EQ's, for instance, and we talk about whether it needs more or less high end or whatever. Almost every step of the way we took together."

    The album went well, if you judge it by the sonic results; but there was a key casualty along the way. Bassist Billy Sheehan, the fiery two-handed tapper who translated that six-stringer's attack to his own ax with such finesse, left the band once the tracks were completed.

    Stories of behind-the-scenes flare-ups are exaggerated or untrue, according to Vai: "I mean, I wish I could sit here and give you the kind of big gory story that everybody loves to read and start some nice soapy media gossip, because then everybody would want to interview me [laughs]. But I'll leave that to somebody else [laughs], so let me put it to you like this.

    "When two people get together and they're playing music and everything goes fine until one of them wants to do something different, it's best to get together and talk about it, and if one of them decides to move on, that’s it. It was Dave's decision, but it's best for Bill and it's best for Dave; that's at least the way I feel about it. And there don't seem to be any hard feelings going around; it's not like the Van Halen extravaganza [laughs]."

    More to the point in any case, as Vai sees it, is how the band recovered and came back from the blow that Sheehan's departure inevitably dealt them. "The main thing is the band sounds really good now, even if it's a different good from before. You know, Matt is [drummer] Greg [Bissonette]'s brother, and they've played together for their whole lives. So they've really got this chemistry.

    “Even the way they argue is their own language, every way they communicate is their own language. If you slap one guy in the face the other guy feels it [laughs]. They're like Siamese twins. They kid around about it, too: one guy'll drink a beer and the other will spit it out. But the main thing is that they really work together well Greg is a great musician; we only found him after auditioning literally hundreds of people. And then we went out and played 112 shows over six months -- a nice leisurely pace, right [laughs]? But Greg never dropped one beat on that whole tour. Never. He's amazing.

    "Now of course, Bill is a very fine, very very talented musician. So I thought, 'Okay, there's no way we're gonna settle for anything less than something that's gonna work great here.' Greg was very reluctant to mention his brother because he didn't want it to be too awkward for everybody; but then when we heard and saw him play, I was really surprised that he was such a fine player.

    "He's not a flash enthusiast, but he's very very solid, and since the two of them are together all the time, it gives the band a real pump. There's something about the genetic structure of the rhythm section that makes me very happy to be playing with them. It's like what Hendrix must have felt with Billy Cox and Mitch Mitchell as a rhythm section, it's just welded together. These guys are like the Cement Brothers [laughs]."
    Believe whatever you want. I am telling you what Vai said in 1989. Logic dictates that he if he was so damn happy - he wouldn't have left. Of course he was asked why he left DLR to join Whitesnake.

    You can tell by the video clip above that things didn't end well with Vai and Roth. But you are using recent interviews where maybe his view has changed. Maybe he now thinks he was wrong, but in 1989 - young Stevie Vai had problems with Dave per what I stated.
    Last edited by Motherload; 03.16.16 at 10:53 AM.

  23. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motherload View Post
    Believe whatever you want. I am telling you what Vai said in 1989. Logic dictates that he if he was so damn happy - he wouldn't have left. Of course he was asked why he left DLR.
    It isn't a matter of belief. Facts are on my side.

    Vai never intended to stay in Dave's band. He signed a record deal to produce a solo album for Capitol after Flexible. The Dave gig came up and it was always going to be temporary. He started working on after Dave then the Whitesnake thing came in. He never viewed that as a permanent solution either. Capitol let him do the Whitesnake gig because they thought it would help him to get more exposure and sell more solo albums.

    So far, the only thing you can offer up is some radio interview you heard almost 30 years ago. One that contradicts everything Vai has said in print then and now.

    Do you want to keep taking this beating or would you like to continue?

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