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  1. #1
    Good Enough nobozos's Avatar
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    12.18.17 @ 08:50 AM
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    Default Fun Fact About Amp Settings...

    Ran into an old friend of the family, and one of the best EVH style guitar players in the area, and invited him over to my house to check out my gear.

    While he was here, he was just using my Classic 30 amp, and showed me something I never knew. He was playing through the lead channel, and he said that if you turn up the clean channel volume all the way, it will change the gain and tone on the lead channel, and fatten up the tone.

    I thought he was full of shit, but he showed me, and he was 110% right. I couldn't believe how noticeable it was. He said, "You really gotta be careful that you don't accidentally switch channels though, or you'll blow your eardrums out."

    I went to my Hot Rod Deluxe, and tried a variation of that experiment. I play through my clean channel exclusively, and use pedals for my gain. I wanted to see if it would make a difference if I turned up the Drive and the Gain on my Lead channel while playing on my Clean channel.

    To my surprise, yes, it does make a difference. Sounds much better. I'm not sure what is going on inside the amp to cause this effect, but I'm sure glad I know about it now. I haven't been switching between channels for a while now, so my Lead channel on both my amps will be dimed while I'm on my clean channel from now on.
    "Having an opinion that people disagree with doesn't make you a Douche, arguing with the people who disagree with your opinion and calling them stupid does!" -Me.

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  3. #2
    Hot For Teacher
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    08.27.17 @ 03:51 PM
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    Very interesting looking forward to trying this out.

  4. #3
    Sinner's Swing!
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    11.25.17 @ 09:06 AM
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    Actually this would make sense to me with how the switching works in a lot of today's amps. Usually both channels remain active, and the switching is not actually turning a channel on or off....Simply choosing the path to the output power section, so there's bound to be some shaping going on in the preamp section with turning up the channel not in use.
    In a more primitive way, when you jumper an old Marshall's inputs like mine with a patch cord, you are effectively bringing the character of one "I" channel to a "II" channel or vice versa depending which input your guitar is plugged into. There's no actual switching in this case, but raising the channel "I", will actually help fatten up, as well as giving the "II" channel more rich harmonic overtones.

  5. #4
    Atomic Punk RRvh1's Avatar
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    12.18.17 @ 08:49 AM
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    Interesting stuff!!!
    "There's too many people on this basketball that's floating around the sun, who are too afraid to allow themselves to FEEL" - Edward Van Halen
    "Van Halen was never about the singer..." - a very wise fan.
    "Embrace the past. Live in the moment but keep your eyes on the future, and keep on moving forward..." - Richie Sambora

  6. #5
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    11.25.17 @ 09:06 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by RRvh1 View Post
    Interesting stuff!!!
    Yeah! I think in the OP's case, it's really an unintended effect in the design, but it only makes sense that as both channels are technically active, but only one audible, the fact that both share components in the chain...especially where tubes are concerned, When demands are placed on them in specific ways, the character changes.
    The 5150 blockletter for example was different in some ways. They shared the same components as well, but it had a different way of switching from clean to overdrive.
    In the 5150, the clean actually employed voltage stepping method for the clean channel. The voltage was stepped down. I can't remember who told me...Maybe MRJ years ago that the voltage was stepped down by around 50%.....Not 100% sure...He'd be the guy to ask.
    I think it was a bit ambitious really, and wasn't very effective in terms of an option with the rather limited controls that both channels shared.
    When you'd hit the switch, and you had a great lead channel tone, the clean sounded damn wimpy by comparison in overall delivery because of the shared EQ section. Very hard to dial in both. I generally used the Crunch button to compensate, but one thing I hated was that even though it was billed as being versatile for both clean, and high gain, it really wasn't. I loved the amp, but I just viewed it more in the veign of being like an old Marshall. Once you get that one great tone,pretty much leave it alone.
    The 5150 II was a huge step up in the design simply because you had a whole other bank of controls.
    Made fine tuning much simpler.
    The Classic 30 is a great little amp though!
    Last edited by we die young; 03.15.16 at 01:58 PM.

  7. #6
    Good Enough nobozos's Avatar
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    12.18.17 @ 08:50 AM
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    Although I am familiar with electronics, I'm no amp tech, so the following theory may be way off base. If any of you know the guts of amps, please correct me if I'm just way wrong.

    So, I have a theory on why this may be happening. When I turn up the channel not in use, there is a subtle, but noticeable thickening of the tone. Here is what I think may be going on. If i go from the clean channel to the dirty channel on a Classic 30, I'm assuming what is happening is the pre-amp is reconfigured internally through different components to generate more pre-amp gain and saturation. The Pre knob adds more hair in the pre-amp, and the Post knob controls the amplitude of the signal passed to the power tubes, driving them harder and making the output louder.

    Here is what I am wondering. When I'm on the dirty channel, and I turn up the clean channel volume, is the power section being driven the same way? Basically, I'm thinking that what I'm hearing is the power tubes being driven into full saturation by the unused channel, and the signal passed from the dirty channel gets the advantage of the power tube saturation, even though the dirty channel is not pushing to overall volume.

    Put in another way, the clean channel is making the power tubes run hot, and the pre-amp signal from the dirty channel sounds better because of it.
    "Having an opinion that people disagree with doesn't make you a Douche, arguing with the people who disagree with your opinion and calling them stupid does!" -Me.

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  9. #7
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    11.25.17 @ 09:06 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by nobozos View Post
    Although I am familiar with electronics, I'm no amp tech, so the following theory may be way off base. If any of you know the guts of amps, please correct me if I'm just way wrong.

    So, I have a theory on why this may be happening. When I turn up the channel not in use, there is a subtle, but noticeable thickening of the tone. Here is what I think may be going on. If i go from the clean channel to the dirty channel on a Classic 30, I'm assuming what is happening is the pre-amp is reconfigured internally through different components to generate more pre-amp gain and saturation. The Pre knob adds more hair in the pre-amp, and the Post knob controls the amplitude of the signal passed to the power tubes, driving them harder and making the output louder.

    Here is what I am wondering. When I'm on the dirty channel, and I turn up the clean channel volume, is the power section being driven the same way? Basically, I'm thinking that what I'm hearing is the power tubes being driven into full saturation by the unused channel, and the signal passed from the dirty channel gets the advantage of the power tube saturation, even though the dirty channel is not pushing to overall volume.

    Put in another way, the clean channel is making the power tubes run hot, and the pre-amp signal from the dirty channel sounds better because of it.
    Tough to say exactly what is going on without a schematic, but I'm thinking along the lines of what you said, though I'm not 100% sure you could be saturating the power tubes with the clean channel, and not notice a VERY dramatic change in your lead channel.
    I personally would guess what it is is a form of bleed over to the channel in use.
    Take an analog flanger I have for example. It has silent switching, true bypass etc. but even with all this, I can still hear the slightest little bit of flangeing effect in my dry signal if I'm not playing, and all I hear is the hiss from the amp. Technically it should not be there, and probably "within acceptable signal to noise ratio spec" wise, it isn't but all I know is if my guitar is down, and with my headphones on, I can hear the flange slightly through the hiss, so it's obviously some degree of bleed in the circuit finding it's way through.
    I'm pretty positive in the case of the Classic 30, it's the fact that much of the signal chain is shared, and turning up the clean channel is somehow altering the line voltage somewhat, and in this case making it sound a bit rounder and fuller. It could be parasitic draw, or simply the fact that the amp is working harder, and the valves are clipping in a more pleasing way.
    Like again with my old Marshall SL 100w. It has four INPUTS. You plug the guitar into your choice of single input, and jumper two opposing inputs with a 1ft. patch cord, and the amp becomes a different animal, because you are forcing the one non master channel not used (such as Channel I Low) into the non master channel section that is. Like Channel II High)
    By doing this, I am incorporating the lower inputs character which has a little more bass emphasis, and more natural presence into the Channel II which naturally has a brighter crunchy tone. It becomes way rounder, and much more full sounding.
    This is my amp that I'm talking about for anyone wondering about the inputs I'm talking about. (They're on the right of the panel)


    It brings a hole different character to the amp, and it's a very basic design.
    3 eq controls, a presence, and a volume 1 ,and a volume two.
    It doesn't turn it into a master volume amp in doing this, but it just blends the color of the two channels together, and does give it a bit more gain.
    I'm thinking along these lines, in that you are getting a form of bleed from the clean being run so hot. Your signal is going to both channels regardless, but it's probably the switching type, and how the amp deals circuitry wise with physically routing the signal to the output stage.

    Again, it's just my thinking, and I could be totally off base, but I think it's really cool TBO.
    I've got lots of old gear that has little quirks that I've found work in my favour, so whatever the reason, it's great you found that info out!
    Last edited by we die young; 03.16.16 at 03:27 PM.

 

 

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