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  1. #1
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    02.17.17 @ 06:11 AM
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    Most folks around here have taken the position that the VH-WB split is bad news for the reunion because WB would never give up the cash cow of a VH reunion.

    While I, like most others on the Forums, would buy multiple copies of a reunion CD for the car, home, office, walkman and an extra "just in case," I don't necessarily agree that a reunion CD is the guaranteed blockbuster that WB is looking for. It probably will sell a ton of records (may 4-5 million) but don't expect the Britney-like numbers that WB would want. These are strange musical times and even the biggest names aren't selling well (i.e., Kid Rock, Mariah, etc.). At bottom, VH is a classic rock band that will not appeal to the largest segments of the record buying public -- the teenyboppers.

    A lot of issues could have gone into the split with WB even with Dave on board. Remember, WV has gone through a major upheaval and many of the old-timers who share history with the band are gone. The new blood at WB is probably looking for the next N'Stank, who they can sign to a multi-album, merchandising megadeal -- not the last hurrah of a volitile, hard rock act.

    The contract itself could have been problematic. It was drafted in a different time and before VH3 showed a "chink in the VH armor).The band's contract could have provided for more upfront money than WB wanted to pay or a larger cut to WB than the band wanted. Who knows what was in the Ray Danniels-negotiated deal? VH could have been on the hook for promotional dollars lost on the VH3 fiasco.

    I still hold out hope that a Dave-reunion will happen. It is the only move (other than retirement) that makes sense.

  2. #2
    Eruption
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    05.18.12 @ 09:24 AM
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    I don't agree. Selling 4-5 millions copies of a record is a lot of profit. WB wouldn't let that go. I think they'd settle for 1-2 million.

    Eddie just can't stand Dave and would rather bury VH than work with him again.

    It's truely sad.

  3. #3
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    who's to say eddie is'nt doing his own label i mean shit he has the studio. i could be wrong but its a thought
    "CANT CROW BEFORE I'M OUTTA THE WOODS BUT THERES EXCEPTIONS TO THE RULE"

  4. #4
    Eruption
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    05.18.12 @ 09:24 AM
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    Originally posted by dkcou812:
    who's to say eddie is'nt doing his own label i mean shit he has the studio. i could be wrong but its a thought
    I'm sure that's exactly what he is doing. WB won't sell a album without Dave. Eddie will not work with Dave so he'll have to set up his own label.

  5. #5
    Atomic Punk jrk5150's Avatar
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    12.10.17 @ 05:44 PM
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    Originally posted by dj88:

    Eddie just can't stand Dave and would rather bury VH than work with him again.

    It's truely sad.
    1. Some of this WB wouldn't drop them...assumes that WB knows what's going on. WB didn't dump them, but mutually negotiated a separation at the behest of VH according to all the reports I've seen. There could be dozens of reasons it happened. Everyone keeps saying they wouldn't dump VH with a DLR reunion on the way, but WB apparently doesn't know any more than we do, so who knows?

    2. Now, as to the above quote, here is what you are asking Eddie to do. I want you to get back together with the woman (or man) that you had the most acrimonious break up with. I want you to spend every day with her/him for one or two years so that you can go to a bunch of parties and family get togethers, because we all liked him/her, and are bummed you broke up/divorced, and want to see you together one last time. Now, you won't get a damn thing from it but our gratitude, and, hey, shouldn't that be enough? After all, we've been your friend for years, we've supported you, we DESERVE it. (And I know VH would make $, but they don't need it, so it amounts to nothing).

    People, I wouldn't do that for my mother, and VH owes us less than I owe my mother. If they CAN make it work, fine, but if they can't, stop asking them to do something you wouldn't do.

    [ February 04, 2002 at 09:54 AM: Message edited by: Incredible Edible Dude ]</p>

  6. #6
    Eruption
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    05.18.12 @ 09:24 AM
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    I like the analogy, but I don't agree with it.

    #1) They can call it what they want, but WB did drop VH. They bought out their contract. It's no different than what Daniel Snieder did with Marty Shottenhiemer. Here's some cash, now go away. There's no way they do this if they thought Dave would be back in any capacity.

    #2) Music groups that have had major problems in the past have reunited for both the money and for the fans. The Eagles come to mind. Those guys hated each other, but they put that aside for one last tour. That's all I want from them. Others may want the reunion to be permanent, but I think we all know that's not going to happen.

    #3) Lets say for the sake of argument that they reunite. How often do they really have to be together? After you get a set list agreed upon and your shows all set up, you really only have to see each other on the stage at the gigs. Then you can go your separate ways, stay in separate hotels, take separate planes etc... Now I can see some friction when these guys have to agree on ANYTHING, but if they could get past that it would be easy street.

    #4) Does VH owe us anything? I think they do. I think they at the very least owe us an explanation of what's been going on for the past four years. You may disagree, but I don't think that's asking too much. Do they owe us a reunion? No, but it would sure be a nice gesture to their die hard fans if they could actually set their massive ego's aside for a farewell tour. Dave needs a band. VH needs a singer. Why can't Eddie get over it and just do a freaking tour?

    We don't know what's really going on because Eddie wants to keep us in the dark. I just don't understand why he'd want to sink VH instead of preserve it. Give us one last tour Ed. Hire someone to talk to Dave through you if you have to so that you never even have to speak to him. We just want one more ride before you destroy the band you, Alex, Mike and Dave worked so hard to construct.

  7. #7
    Hot For Teacher
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    02.17.17 @ 06:11 AM
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    How many folks on the Boards are in the "biz"?

    My point was that there is no lock that WB would have wanted to keep even a reunited VH. Unless someone professes to know the particulars about the contract as well as WB/AOL's plans for the record division, the talk of WB insisting on a VH reunion smacks of "talking out yer ass" (which, don't get me wrong, is perfectly acceptable on fan bulletin boards.

    But there is a lot more involved than what us fans might know. After all, EMI did not pay $22 million to Mariah to buy out of her deal (and she will sell more records than a reunited VH) because EMI is philanthropic and doles out charity to chubby and confused former divas. Bean counters at WB/AOL may not have the same view of the profitability of the VH reunion to keep the company in the game.

  8. #8
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    02.17.17 @ 06:11 AM
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    #1) They can call it what they want, but WB did drop VH. They bought out their contract. It's no different than what Daniel Snieder did with Marty Shottenhiemer. Here's some cash, now go away. There's no way they do this if they thought Dave would be back in any capacity.
    Does this mean that Steve Spurrier is the new lead singer of Van Halen? [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]

    GO GATORS!

  9. #9
    Eruption
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    05.18.12 @ 09:24 AM
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    Actually we're using quotes from the lawyers involved in the situation who stated that WB wanted a reunited VH (with DLR) but that Eddie vetoed that as our source of information. Here's the link I'm talking about.

    Of course I'm speculating about certain things as well, because that's what we're forced to do apparently because Eddie wants to keep us in the dark.

    [ February 04, 2002 at 11:05 AM: Message edited by: dj88 ]</p>

  10. #10
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    Originally posted by dj88:
    Eddie just can't stand Dave and would rather bury VH than work with him again.

    And why, praytell, should Eddie work with someone he hates? He doesn't need the money, he doesn't need to do so in order to become 'famous', and it's someone he's already worked with extensively in the past (with obviously many bad experiences during that time).

    That leaves only one possible reason for it to happen, and that would be as a favor to the couple of thousand die hard Dave fans left in the world. These people aren't particular Eddie fans, or Van Halen fans; they're Van Roth fans and Dave-solo fans. I see no incentive for Ed to do them any favors; after all, they haven't done any for Ed over the years.

    Hell, he doesn't seem very interested in his OWN fans as of late.

    Dave IS the grave. Ed working with Roth would be the ultimate defeat: "I've been a world-renowned musician for over 20 years and I have to sell out to an OLD formula that fizzled out YEARS ago in order have a voice in music anymore." Ed's ego has been criticized here quite a bit; what makes anyone think he'll suddenly overcome his ego to satisfy the wishes of a few fans that generally have allegiance to somebody else?

    Sammy was right when he said that doing a 'Greatest Shits' package would signal the death knell of the band. At that point, they essentially force themselves into a nostalgia trip. While nostalgia tours are fine for rock and roll 'stars' and their fans, someone who considers himself a musician isn't likely to welcome such a proposition.

    WB dropped VH because they refuse to be rock and roll stars. WB only sells stars; music is not their concern. Now Eddie's problem is that he has to realize that, in order to be a 'musician', he has to ditch the rock and roll image, and the rock and roll cliches. One of those cliches is the large, adoring fan base. So far, he's doing a pretty good job of eliminating them. Another is a huge record contract. Massive tours for 30,000+ fans, with sound systems in the gigawatt range and lighting worthy of the 4th of July, don't fit the bill either. Music is as art; rock and roll is a spectacle; rarely do the two ever meet on equal footing.

    So what is the point of a reunion? For the band, there really is none; they don't need the $$, and they obviously have little regard for their fans. For the fans, it's nostalgia. People trying to relive something that happened in the past. Funny thing about time: it only moves in one direction. We can't go back; we can't do it all over again. Conveniently, we have memories. We can't relive a memory, nor can we really recreate one. Strangely enough, that just happens to be a major impetus for the creation of art: since you cannot relive what your memory has shaped into a little slice of utopia, you try and create another. And another. And another. But never do you revert to a Xerox of a past work.

    Everyone keeps looking at this situation from their own point of view, THEIR desires, and THEIR concept of what should be. However, it's the band (whoever that may be at this point) that makes the decisions, and it's THEIR perspective that will determine the outcome. And as long as they see themselves as 'artists' and not 'rock and roll stars', Van Roth will remain a memory.
    Don't bark at me...<b>I</b> didn't name ya.

  11. #11
    Hot For Teacher
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    02.17.17 @ 06:11 AM
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    Actually we're using quotes from the lawyers involved in the situation who stated that WB wanted a reunited VH (with DLR) but that Eddie vetoed that as our source of information
    Sorry, my friend, you have failed Reading Comprehension 101. Mintz said nothing about David Lee Roth. The "Ed vetoed it" came from an unnamed "source."

    For all I know that "source" could be some DJ from Tunafish, Wyoming, who heard the news from some WB rep pushing the latest from the boy band, O-Town.

    Point is that when Ed wants to reject Dave, he had always done it publicly himself or through his channels. Remember, the terrible way he misrepresented Dave's dad's call in Rolling Stone about 10 years ago or how he slagged Dave on MTV in 1996 after Ed's fiasco. Ed has no problem saying that Dave is washed up and that he won't play with him.

    Ed's silence, given his history, speaks volumes.

  12. #12
    Eruption
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    05.18.12 @ 09:24 AM
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    Originally posted by AbeVanHalen:
    And why, praytell, should Eddie work with someone he hates? He doesn't need the money, he doesn't need to do so in order to become 'famous', and it's someone he's already worked with extensively in the past (with obviously many bad experiences during that time).

    That leaves only one possible reason for it to happen, and that would be as a favor to the couple of thousand die hard Dave fans left in the world. These people aren't particular Eddie fans, or Van Halen fans; they're Van Roth fans and Dave-solo fans. I see no incentive for Ed to do them any favors; after all, they haven't done any for Ed over the years.
    He should do it for his original Van Halen fans. There are a lot of them out there. I would guess more than just a couple hundred thousand, but I really have no idea. Doing this would be a huge favor given to all of his fans to be able to see the original line-up one last time. I know I would be very grathful to him if he could do this.

    Hell, he doesn't seem very interested in his OWN fans as of late.
    No argument here.

    Dave IS the grave. Ed working with Roth would be the ultimate defeat: "I've been a world-renowned musician for over 20 years and I have to sell out to an OLD formula that fizzled out YEARS ago in order have a voice in music anymore." Ed's ego has been criticized here quite a bit; what makes anyone think he'll suddenly overcome his ego to satisfy the wishes of a few fans that generally have allegiance to somebody else?
    I disagree. I think the only way VH has any chance of surviving is with Dave. The formula never fizzled out, Dave's ego (which is just as large as Eddie's I might add) got the best of him and he left the band. It was a mistake. That old formula was the best one. The fans just want to see it one more time and the timing couldn't be any more perfect than now.

    Sammy was right when he said that doing a 'Greatest Shits' package would signal the death knell of the band. At that point, they essentially force themselves into a nostalgia trip. While nostalgia tours are fine for rock and roll 'stars' and their fans, someone who considers himself a musician isn't likely to welcome such a proposition.
    Lets face facts here. It's been a nice run, but Van Halen is over. They've entered into the greatest hits era and the nostalgia era simply because it's time. They've had a hell of a run, but it's over.

    WB dropped VH because they refuse to be rock and roll stars. WB only sells stars; music is not their concern. Now Eddie's problem is that he has to realize that, in order to be a 'musician', he has to ditch the rock and roll image, and the rock and roll cliches. One of those cliches is the large, adoring fan base. So far, he's doing a pretty good job of eliminating them. Another is a huge record contract. Massive tours for 30,000+ fans, with sound systems in the gigawatt range and lighting worthy of the 4th of July, don't fit the bill either. Music is as art; rock and roll is a spectacle; rarely do the two ever meet on equal footing.
    I disagree. I think they dropped them because they know a 4th singer would bring even lower sales than VHIII and Eddie is dead set against working with Dave.

    So what is the point of a reunion? For the band, there really is none; they don't need the $$, and they obviously have little regard for their fans. For the fans, it's nostalgia. People trying to relive something that happened in the past. Funny thing about time: it only moves in one direction. We can't go back; we can't do it all over again. Conveniently, we have memories. We can't relive a memory, nor can we really recreate one. Strangely enough, that just happens to be a major impetus for the creation of art: since you cannot relive what your memory has shaped into a little slice of utopia, you try and create another. And another. And another. But never do you revert to a Xerox of a past work.
    The purpose of the reunion would be to give the fans what they want. We want to see the original line-up one last time. Call it nostalia if you want. Hell that's all it probably is, but why not give the fans he has left one last wish? The answer is because he's too proud to do it. He doesn't care about his fans anymore and I don't know if he ever did. I'm not saying he owes it to us, but hey, would it really hurt anything to do it? I know it wouldn't hurt his pocketbook and more money is never a bad thing. He may not NEED the money, but I'm sure it would be nice.

    Everyone keeps looking at this situation from their own point of view, THEIR desires, and THEIR concept of what should be. However, it's the band (whoever that may be at this point) that makes the decisions, and it's THEIR perspective that will determine the outcome. And as long as they see themselves as 'artists' and not 'rock and roll stars', Van Roth will remain a memory.
    Guilty as charged. That's why I'm here talking about it. It's my opinion. I'd love to see the original line-up one more time. I am being selfish. But you know what? Am I really asking for that much from a band that I have supported over the year? Maybe I am. But that's what I would like more than anything. Every time VH lost another singer and I heard the news on the radio my heart would skip a beat. Every time I was praying for Dave to get back in the band. Every time my prayers went unanswered. I don't think I'm asking for that much. Just do a tour with Dave. Stay in separate rooms, don't talk to each other etc. Just give us the real thing one more time before you run this ship into the ground. Everyone knows VH with a 4th singer isn't going anywhere. Why not do that later after you given the fans what they want?

    I dunno, just my opinion.

    [ February 04, 2002 at 11:37 AM: Message edited by: dj88 ]</p>

  13. #13
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    12.31.69 @ 04:00 PM
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    DJ88:

    I understand where you're coming from. But reread your post and the overwhelming focus is the concept of 'doing it for the fans'.

    How does Van Halen treat their fans? Well, the only contact we generally have with the band is via their website. We know who runs that website and his mannerisms. We know how he deals with fans. How about meeting band members? Rols and Fullbugz (?) can attest to that. How about MA flipping everyone the bird about 367 times? The last DEFINITIVE statement from the band? Approximately Nov. 5, 1999. Oddly, 44 years after Doc Brown invented the Flux Capacitor.

    Your point is that VH would be doing it for the fans. My point is that VH does NOTHING for the fans. If anything, they do the OPPOSITE of what their fans want. Based on that...

    If you want Van Roth to return, I suggest everyone start flooding the VH mailbox with letters expressing in no uncertain terms how much they despise the thought of Roth ever returning. Upon seeing that, the band would probably set out immediately to reunite, just for spite.
    Don't bark at me...<b>I</b> didn't name ya.

  14. #14
    Eruption
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    05.18.12 @ 09:24 AM
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    I understand what you're saying Abe. Let me add just one more thing though. They don't need to reunite for just the fans sake. They need to reunite just to survive. A 4th singer isn't going to work. If Eddie wants the band to move forward, he has to move backward to do it at this point in his career. A reunion with Dave would be huge. Hell, a reunion with Sammy might even save them. But no reunion spells instant death of VH. If Eddie's fine with that then I guess he should go ahead and do it.

    VH has deteriorated to the point where they really have no choice. Make up with Dave and you'll instantly be revived. Make up with Sam and I think you'd still preserve VH for a couple more years. Get singer #4 and you might as well just retire.

    VH's time is over, but like a lot of bands before them they still can go out with a bang instead of a whimper. The Eagles did it, Kiss did it, VH should do it.

  15. #15
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    03.03.15 @ 08:31 PM
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    4-5 million albums may not seem like much, but a person has to consider that there's considerably less cost involved in selling those albums than in the intensely competitive teen-pop market.

    WB can put together a BOV2 that'll sell a couple million copies over time. They had to consider the chances of the band reuniting, a 4th singer, or a dormant band.

    WB must have concluded that the 2nd or 3rd option were the only likely possibilities. At that point a BOV2 becomes much more attractive to the label.

    This doesn't mean a reunion won't happen. It just means that people who stand to make millions of dollars on it have decided that it's a rather remote possibility.

 

 

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