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  1. #1
    Hot For Teacher NDL's Avatar
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    Favorite VH Album

    1984
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    05.24.18 @ 06:05 PM
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    Default Was III's Lack Of Success Really Ed's Doing?

    I really have a problem with the band's lack of new music, because they're simply too talented.

    I don't understand the business side of things; I don't understand how Country has - to a degree - fused itself with Southern Rock/Rock, how it survives, yet a band like Van Halen has lackluster sales.

    How many records will Trace Adkins sell, with his upcoming release?

    Getting back to VH III, I have now come to appreciate the depth of it, and can't help but think that the band hasn't put out new music, because VH's writing style has evolved, while the public's perception of what is Van Halen hasn't.

    III has some killer grooves.

    Some of the songs are needlessly long, and the solo's left the listener flat. In Without You, Ed gets into it, with the listener expecting a killer solo, and then...flat.

    Outside of that, was III's poor reception Ed's doing?

    Ultimately yes. And songs like How Many Say I were indeed radical.

    But was it really the melodies fan's had a problem with?

    The buck stops with Ed, yes.

    The production of III sucked. Brickwalled. Sucked. But this had nothing to do with the music Ed wrote.

    Some of the work was a little rough. But was that a result of Ed writing? No. In fact, I read somewhere that Ed was encouraged to leave the music as it was - not to clean it up. But was that Ed's doing? Not really.

    A lot of the electronic effects on the record...where'd that come from? Wasn't a fan, at all. Detracted from the music, so much so that I'll listen to the Lethal Weapon version of Fire In The Hole. Is this a result of Ed's writing? To a degree, but I can't help but feel that there were artistic forces outside of the band...The intro to Once sounds like a television theme.

    Gary's voice...don't know what happened with that.

    All in all, I think a lot of what we're currently dealing with, is owed to the aftermath of III.

    Was it really Ed's writing? Looking back, I don't think so.

    New band...a little rough...a lot of bad advice.

    Ed's writing? Lot's good stuff there. Wondered what would've happened if a few parts had been further developed/massaged.

    Would III have been a much better record with a different producer?

    If Ted Templeman had produced III, would Gary Cherone have continued with the band?

    A lack of new material is a shame. It'd be something that I would accept if the band members had lost their edge, but Ed and Al are at the very top of their game. And as much as I like Mike...Wolf is most definitely a Van Halen.

  2. #2
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    05.26.18 @ 03:32 PM
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    Default

    Simple answer, yes.

    He fired Sam, he fired DLR, he hired Gary, he hired Mike Post, he marginalized Mike. That was all his doing. He wanted total control, he got it, and VHIII is the result.
    Taylor Swift is nice to look at. Adele can sing.

    Emperor Brett - "I can't believe you guys are analyzing song-by-song Van Halen III? What next, analyzing the script of Stroker Ace looking for some shred of Citizen Kane?"

    David Lee Roth did the impossible. He made Van Halen better. Deal with it!

    A man's rights rests in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box

    Hurricane Halen - Let's all gingery touch our sword tips!!!

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  4. #3
    Good Enough
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    05.26.18 @ 03:50 PM
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    Default

    It's an interesting question, I actually don't think it was Eds doing. I love the music on III, New World into Without you is great.
    And I like Gary with Extreme, but after III sides, They seemed to lose it.
    The problem with 3 is I don't think Gary's style meshed with Ed all that great. It was so different to what we were used to. I think Gary's challenge, is anything he writes, he's looking to have it hit like more than words, and he lost the side that was just pure fun rock and roll.
    Gary wasn't really given a chance, because at the time, at least I remember, I was pissed it wasn't Dave, those two songs in 96 were so good, that I didn't give III a fair shake until it was out two years. I listened to it the day it came out and then shelved it.

    If they did a follow up with Gary, maybe fans would have warned to it, but in Van Halen fashion, they gave up


    Signaled from my ballsack

  5. #4
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    05.26.18 @ 03:32 PM
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    Default

    Let me put it this way, I don't think there is a single song on VHIII that is better than the worst song in the rest of their catalog.
    Taylor Swift is nice to look at. Adele can sing.

    Emperor Brett - "I can't believe you guys are analyzing song-by-song Van Halen III? What next, analyzing the script of Stroker Ace looking for some shred of Citizen Kane?"

    David Lee Roth did the impossible. He made Van Halen better. Deal with it!

    A man's rights rests in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box

    Hurricane Halen - Let's all gingery touch our sword tips!!!

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  7. #5
    Atomic Punk Get The Show On The Road's Avatar
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    05.26.18 @ 01:53 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    Let me put it this way, I don't think there is a single song on VHIII that is better than the worst song in the rest of their catalog.
    I think Fire in the Hole is better than Feels So Good.

    I like One I Want better than WCTBL.

    I think From Afar is better than CSLY.

    But that's just me.
    The only genre I really know is Van Halen.

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  9. #6
    Atomic Punk I Coulda Hada VH's Avatar
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    05.26.18 @ 03:53 PM
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    Default

    III was Van Halen's "Shark Sandwich" ...

    "It's so lonely at the top because it's so crowded at the bottom" - Diamond David Lee Roth

    "Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners" - George Carlin

    "Women and Children First ... The REAL Van Halen III"

  10. #7
    Atomic Punk Van Squalen's Avatar
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    03.25.18 @ 10:16 PM
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    Default

    Yes.

  11. #8
    Atomic Punk Van Squalen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    Let me put it this way, I don't think there is a single song on VHIII that is better than the worst song in the rest of their catalog.
    That pretty much sums it up.

  12. #9
    Eruption Railrunner130's Avatar
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    05.26.18 @ 08:09 AM
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    Default

    From Afar and YTTD were awesome. Most of the rest of the album was ok, but a few songs like the one Ed sang, just flat out sucked. I can't remember, but I think Ed had some serious addiction problems at that time that were unchecked. And that, along with Mike Post as producer, I think was the main problem. I don't blame Gary for a second. He walked in and did his best and put forth a great effort. Even in concert he wasn't afraid to sing whatever. He wanted it to work.

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  14. #10
    Atomic Punk bklynboy68's Avatar
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    05.26.18 @ 12:10 PM
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    Van Halen III was Eddie's "I'm in charge" album. It sucked monkey balls.
    †"He has a swaggering retro machismo that will give hives to the Steinem cabal" -Camille Paglia on Donald Trump

    "Make way for the bad guy"- Tony Montana

    'This hamburger don't need no helper"- David Lee Roth

    "I wish Bon Jovi would've given me a call before he recorded all of his hits, because the lyrics would've been smarter, the melodies would've been much more smashing, and they would've sold a lot fewer records." -David Lee Roth

    "My beef is people thinking Bon Jovi is good cuz they sold lots of records to housewives." -tango

    "But being number one doesnít really mean jack fuck all. We sold twice as many records as other records that year (1984) that landed in the Number One position." ~Eddie Van Halen

  15. #11
    Atomic Punk JUNGLE DRUMMER's Avatar
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    05.26.18 @ 02:39 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Get The Show On The Road View Post
    I think Fire in the Hole is better than Feels So Good.

    I like One I Want better than WCTBL.

    I think From Afar is better than CSLY.



    But that's just me.
    Agreed, and I could probably think of a few more pairings, too.

  16. #12
    Atomic Punk Get The Show On The Road's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JUNGLE DRUMMER View Post
    Agreed, and I could probably think of a few more pairings, too.
    Yeah, those were the first three that came to mind.

    I'll take Year to the Day over In N' Out.
    The only genre I really know is Van Halen.

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  18. #13
    Atomic Punk JUNGLE DRUMMER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Get The Show On The Road View Post
    Yeah, those were the first three that came to mind.

    I'll take Year to the Day over In N' Out.
    So will I.

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  20. #14
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    05.26.18 @ 03:32 PM
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    In N' Out Burger is awesome, I would take a single In N' Out burger over listening to Year to the Day any day.
    Taylor Swift is nice to look at. Adele can sing.

    Emperor Brett - "I can't believe you guys are analyzing song-by-song Van Halen III? What next, analyzing the script of Stroker Ace looking for some shred of Citizen Kane?"

    David Lee Roth did the impossible. He made Van Halen better. Deal with it!

    A man's rights rests in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box

    Hurricane Halen - Let's all gingery touch our sword tips!!!

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  22. #15
    Atomic Punk JUNGLE DRUMMER's Avatar
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    05.26.18 @ 02:39 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    In N' Out Burger is awesome, I would take a single In N' Out burger over listening to Year to the Day any day.
    Lol, In N Out burgers, and their fries too, are indeed excellent!

    I wish we had them in Washington State. We made sure to go there again when we were in Vegas for Valentine's weekend again this year.

 

 

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