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  1. #1
    Banned! Motherload's Avatar
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    Default Any Truth To The Claim That Sammy Hagar's Work Ethic Sucked?

    Regardless of what you think of Sammy's creative output with Van Halen - do you think there was any truth to Eddie's claim that Sammy's work ethic sucked?

    It certainly didn't look that way to me. Sammy was practically running the band and it's not like there was a huge gap between albums.

    Should Sammy have "been there" with Van Halen at Ed's beck and call instead of dealing with John Kalodner and Geffen Records per the Unboxed album that was coming out one way or another? I guess that's up for debate.

    I would like to think that a normal person would understand when you have found a way to pay for your costly divorce in a way that won't really cost you anything at all, but we are a talking about Eddie here.

    So what's your take on Sammy's worth ethic in Van Halen, because certainly his work ethic outside of Van Halen isn't up for debate.

    To clarify again, it doesn't matter if you think all his songs suck - did he still have strong work ethic to write those songs and do what needed to be done in Van Halen?

    I think if Eddie just let the Unboxed thing go (yes I know that Eddie can't let things go) - they would have regrouped to do a follow up to Balance. Assuming of course that Eddie actually still wanted Sammy in the band, since it's clear that he was being manipulated by Ray Danniels.

    Last edited by Motherload; 03.03.16 at 02:19 AM.

  2. #2
    Atomic Punk JUNGLE DRUMMER's Avatar
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    Obviously Sam has a great work ethic. But things weren't going well during the recording of Balance. I seem to recall an interview with the second engineer for that album, maybe in the Inside, and he said Sam would show up late and only stay for a couple hours a day while Ed, Al, and Mike would be there most or all of the day. This doesn't mean Sam's work ethic sucked, I just think there was a big disconnect between he and Ed at that time.

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  4. #3
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    MTV News 5/30/1997

    HAGAR: I had the music idea and the chorus of “little white lie,” meaning in a racist sense as in a “Southern Man” Neil Young song. Like in the deep south, there is still a lot of racism, you know, trying to hold blacks down with lies in a way. But, I was in the studio working on my record and my guitar tech comes running and says “Sammy, Sammy! Ed and Al are on MTV! You got to come and see them!” And I go. He goes, “Man, they’re talking trash about you.”

    EDDIE VAN HALEN, 1996: Bottom line, his work ethic sucked.

    HAGAR: So, I took that song and re-wrote it.

    KEARSE: This ain’t about racism anymore.

    HAGAR: No, this song is about Ed and Alex Van Halen on MTV!!!

    EDDIE VAN HALEN, 1996: He put out a press release saying, “I quit.” A week later, he says I kicked him out. Now, you stickin’ to both stories Sam? I’ll take a lie detector test.

    HAGAR: I’m not proud of being kicked out of one of the greatest bands in the world. I’m not going to go around saying — it’s more flattering to say, “Yeah, I quit those guys.” I didn’t quit the band. I would have never quit the band. It was a great, great band.

    KEARSE: Do you think there will ever be a point when you can actually move past this, where you’ll be Sammy Hagar, solo artist, doing your thing, and people aren’t going to ask you about Van Halen? Or is going to be a lifetime thing?

    HAGAR: I don’t know, I won’t tell this story over and over again. After this tour, it’s the last time I’ll talk about it. But if someone wants to talk about the good times in Van Halen, I’ll be glad to share that with anyone, because that’s what I want to remember. It was ten great years, one bad one, for me. That band taught me a lot. I’m a better singer today, better songwriter, guitar player. What more could anybody ask for?

    http://www.mtv.com/news/1429852/samm...ses-new-album/

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  6. #4
    Atomic Punk Bad to the Bone's Avatar
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    Ed's hangup at the time was about the twister soundtrack and BOV1.

    Sam's wife was 8 months pregnant. The baby was breach and the pregnancy was hard on his wife. the band was SUPPOSED to take a break after the Balance tour to regroup, get away from each other and take care of the nagging injuries that had been an issue on the Balance tour.

    Ed and Al changed the rules with that for a shitty movie soundtrack.

    obviously Sam and Ed were not getting along like they once did and shoving them into a studio to work on a project one of them objected to was going to cause problems. This is where I blame Ray Daniels. He should have stepped in and said "listen guys, we have at least 8 left over songs from FUCK and Balance, lets just use one of them and let everyone cool off for a bit" but he pushed and pushed and the bubble popped.

    Sam has and has always had great work ethic.

  7. #5
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  8. #6
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    Humans Being - Song Facts

    This song (a rocker) was contracted for the soundtrack for the movie Twister by Van Halen. The band was supposed to have the first half of 1996 off. In that time, Eddie was going to have hip surgery, Alex was supposed to get his neck fixed and Sammy's wife was preparing to have their first child. They were convinced by Ray Danniels that this movie was huge and the money would carry them for he remainder of 1996.

    Hagar had written a song called "The Silent Extreme," which Alex later renamed "Humans Being." There was a lot of friction between Sammy and the band because Sammy was in Maui with his pregnant wife and the others wanted him to fly to the studio and finish the song. Eddie pleaded with Sammy and said they needed only a minute and a half of lyrics added and he suggested "Bah, bah, bah. I hate this, I hate that, you dirty rat." Sammy said "that sucked." Sammy finally said okay, and came up with this line: "There is just enough Christ in me/To make me feel almost guilty/Is that why God made us breed/To make us see we're humans being." Sammy sang the song in three parts in about an hour and a half and split. This played a key roll in the end of the relationship between Hagar and Van Halen.

    The phrase "Shine-on Shine-on" in the lyrics is similar to "We all Shine on" from John Lennons "Instant Karma." This phrase, according to Steven King, inspired his term for "to shine" in the film The Shining. In the film Twister, The Shining is being played in the drive in when a twister hits. (thanks, Mike - Mountlake Terrace, Washington, for all above)

    http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=3000

  9. #7
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    If only OUR band had a sense of humor.


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  11. #8
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    Work ethic to Eddie is working when he wants you to, in the way he wants you to, and doing what he tells you to do, regardless of what time of day, what was previously agreed to, or how irrational hid demand is. If you care at all about the band, you will do what he says and when he says to do it. No questions asked. Capisce?

    Look, all anyone needs to do to answer this question is to look at Sam's output since 1996 and compare that to Eddie's. Game. Set. Match.

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  13. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 47 View Post
    If only OUR band had a sense of humor.

    Ha exactly....not a huge Foo fan but this was fantastic.
    VH RULES!
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  14. #10
    Baluchitherium thismusicsux's Avatar
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    yeah bad work ethic probably was a stretch there. A couple years of brewing tension, coming to record quick stuff and leaving. Sammy not doing exactly what EVH asked or when he asked, etc etc. Sammy likes to be the boss I think.


    this part kinda funny now..

    __

    KEARSE: Do you think there will ever be a point when you can actually move past this, where you’ll be Sammy Hagar, solo artist, doing your thing, and people aren’t going to ask you about Van Halen? Or is going to be a lifetime thing?

    HAGAR: I don’t know, I won’t tell this story over and over again. After this tour, it’s the last time I’ll talk about it. But if someone wants to talk about the good times in Van Halen, I’ll be glad to share that with anyone, because that’s what I want to remember. It was ten great years, one bad one, for me. That band taught me a lot. I’m a better singer today, better songwriter, guitar player. What more could anybody ask for?
    Last edited by thismusicsux; 03.03.16 at 10:44 AM.

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  16. #11
    Hang 'Em High Reckless Fable's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thismusicsux View Post
    yeah bad work ethic probably was a stretch there. A couple years of brewing tension, coming to record quick stuff and leaving. Sammy not doing exactly what EVH asked or when he asked, etc etc. Sammy likes to be the boss I think.


    this part kinda funny now..

    __

    KEARSE: Do you think there will ever be a point when you can actually move past this, where you’ll be Sammy Hagar, solo artist, doing your thing, and people aren’t going to ask you about Van Halen? Or is going to be a lifetime thing?

    HAGAR: I don’t know, I won’t tell this story over and over again. After this tour, it’s the last time I’ll talk about it. But if someone wants to talk about the good times in Van Halen, I’ll be glad to share that with anyone, because that’s what I want to remember. It was ten great years, one bad one, for me. That band taught me a lot. I’m a better singer today, better songwriter, guitar player. What more could anybody ask for?
    Wow, that's a crazy quote. Wish he stuck to it. If so, people would be talking about what a class act he is now.

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  18. #12
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    Default Any Truth To The Claim That Sammy Hagar's Work Ethic Sucked?

    I don't think the claim about Sammy's work ethic has any merit. Sammy has been pretty busy since his departure from the band.

    Now, I do believe the claim about Sammy being a "team player." That has been showcased by Sammy's very extensive trashing of the band over the past decade or so. I know he's mad playing smaller venues, but Sammy is set for life money wise.

    Also, the "team player" claim was also highlighted on the '04 tour where the contract rider prohibited Sammy from wearing Cabo gear. So Sammy goes out and gets a Cabo tattoo in a prominent location on his arm to "stick it" to the brothers.

    And the Unboxed greatest hits cd involvement was another prime example. Regardless of the intentions or previous agreements, Sammy should have never involved himself in making any solo tunes at the time. As much as Sammy despised and made fun of Dave, he wound out making the same mistake, which cost him.

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  20. #13
    Atomic Punk jrk5150's Avatar
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    First, Sammy has acknowledged that, at the end, he was extremely self-serving. To some extent he has tried to justify his behavior, but I have seen interviews where he's admitted he didn't handle it all very well. He's also right in being pissed at Ed because after 11 years THAT shouldn't have derailed what was at the time perhaps the biggest band in America. He had big ideas for where to go next - talked about trying for their "Joshua Tree" album, they also talked about creating an "epic" song, their "Stairway to Heaven". But Ed is very much a "you're with me or you're against me" kind of guy. And, well, there you go.

    As for work ethic - Sammy was - and is - intellectually lazy when it comes to lyrics. And I personally think that's more what Ed was referring to. Ed wanted epic songs, Sammy gave him "wham bam Amsterdam". Sam was told not to right about tornadoes for Twister, his original lyrics were about tornadoes.

    Fact is, Sam was and is always good for a few songs per album of ridiculous lyrics, and Ed wanted VH to be a serious, deep band.

    And yes, I'm sure part of it is that Ed was/is self-serving as well, and wanted Sam available at his beck and call like he was when they first started up.
    Last edited by jrk5150; 03.03.16 at 11:59 AM.

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  22. #14
    Baluchitherium thismusicsux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrk5150 View Post
    First, Sammy has acknowledged that, at the end, he was extremely self-serving. To some extent he has tried to justify his behavior, but I have seen interviews where he's admitted he didn't handle it all very well. He's also right in being pissed at Ed because after 11 years THAT shouldn't have derailed what was at the time perhaps the biggest band in America. He had big ideas for where to go next - talked about trying for their "Joshua Tree" album, they also talked about creating an "epic" song, their "Stairway to Heaven". But Ed is very much a "you're with me or you're against me" kind of guy. And, well, there you go.

    As for work ethic - Sammy was - and is - intellectually lazy when it comes to lyrics. And I personally think that's more what Ed was referring to. Ed wanted epic songs, Sammy gave him "wham bam Amsterdam". Sam was told not to right about tornadoes for Twister, his original lyrics were about tornadoes.

    Fact is, Sam was and is always good for a few songs per album of ridiculous lyrics, and Ed wanted VH to be a serious, deep band.

    And yes, I'm sure part of it is that Ed was/is self-serving as well, and wanted Sam available at his beck and call like he was when they first started up.
    Sounds like that sums it up pretty well.

    And I learned a more pleasing term for my pet peeve ...."intellectually lazy lyrics"

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  24. #15
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    ...and away we go!

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