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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
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    Default The collapse of parenting: Why itís time for parents to grow up

    If anyone can be called the boss in modern, anti-hierarchical parenthood, itís the children

    http://www.macleans.ca/society/the-c...ts-to-grow-up/
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.Ē -- Gen. George S. Patton

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    Atomic Punk CaboChris's Avatar
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    The pendulum has swung so far in the other direction, that many parents are the "kids".

    Imo, this is solely due to corporal punishment being frowned upon as "ineffective".

    The threat or fear of parents, is simply not there anymore.

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  4. #3
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    We don't have that problem in my house. My wife and I are the bosses, and it is not ever questioned. But I do see it in other households, and I just shake my head, they say "you are so lucky, your kids are so well behaved" as if it was some miracle that happened, and not good parenting.
    Taylor Swift is nice to look at. Adele can sing.

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  6. #4
    Atomic Punk Get The Show On The Road's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    We don't have that problem in my house. My wife and I are the bosses, and it is not ever questioned. But I do see it in other households, and I just shake my head, they say "you are so lucky, your kids are so well behaved" as if it was some miracle that happened, and not good parenting.
    We've got these neighbors across the street who have kids pretty much identical in age as mine. The are wild and out of control, to the point that I limit my kids' exposure to them as much as possible.

    The older one pees in the yard and his dad thinks it's funny. My kid pees in the yard and he's going to get a swat on the butt.

    I wasn't surprised in the least when one morning on trash day my neighbor was putting his TV out on the curb with a big hole in the screen and says his kid threw a toy at it and broke it. And he's chuckling about that too... The thought of doing something like that would never cross my kids' minds as they know what the repercussions for that type of action would be.
    The only genre I really know is Van Halen.

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    Baluchitherium Ted Van Halen's Avatar
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    Our goal is not to be our kid's buddies or friends. Our kids don't even like us sometimes. You know what? They get over it because they trust that we have their best interest in mind in what we do.
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    If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace. -Thomas Paine


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  9. #6
    Atomic Punk CaboChris's Avatar
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    The article talks about the dinner table. I never had the option to dictate what I would or wouldn't eat. What I found to be "gross" mattered not. I HAD to eat what my mom prepared or else I went to bed hungry. My mom was not swayed by guilt. That takes courage. We don't want to see our kids cry or be seen as neglectful parents. I GET that.

    Having said that, it forced me to quickly realize...I better eat.

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  11. #7
    Romeo Delight tphitman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    We don't have that problem in my house. My wife and I are the bosses, and it is not ever questioned. But I do see it in other households, and I just shake my head, they say "you are so lucky, your kids are so well behaved" as if it was some miracle that happened, and not good parenting.
    I also hear this "you are so lucky, your kids are so well behaved" stuff all the time. My two older kids each won a "student of the year" award one year in elementary school. The principal asked me what I did to make them behave so well. I said "I spank them." The guy was so incredulous that he nearly swallowed his own tongue!

    I explained my system to him: If I tell them to do something and they don't do it, then we have a problem. If I tell them NOT to do something and they do it anyway, then we have a problem. If they LIE to me about something, then we have a problem. I explained this system to my kids, often. They knew what the consequences of bad behavior would be. We actually had very few problems. I'm with TedVanHalen on this point also: I'm not here to be your friend. I'm here to be your DAD.

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  13. #8
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    The pendulum has swung so far in the other direction, that many parents are the "kids".

    Imo, this is solely due to corporal punishment being frowned upon as "ineffective".

    The threat or fear of parents, is simply not there anymore.
    I think that's the removal of corporal punishment is a tiny, tiny factor. 50% divorce rate? So many kids growing up with one parent? Those are legitimate reasons we see the issues we do

    Sent from my Z10 using Tapatalk

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  15. #9
    Atomic Punk CaboChris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    I think that's the removal of corporal punishment is a tiny, tiny factor. 50% divorce rate? So many kids growing up with one parent? Those are legitimate reasons we see the issues we do

    Sent from my Z10 using Tapatalk
    A two parent home with loving parents is ideal.

    Having said that, I grew up in a single parent home. I knew who was the boss. It's not necessary for there to be two parents. What's needed, is that one parent to do their job. Challenging but not impossible.

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  17. #10
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    It's funny, my wife and I are late to the party at 37, but we just got married, both our first marriage, and while there are risks in a late pregnancy, we are trying. But we have both had lots of time to observe what other parents do, and we always discuss what we saw and how we might do different when we're parents.

    Just this past Christmas, we saw events unfold that we discussed how we will handle them with our future kid(s).

    For several months, I would tell my wife when we left their house that the middle kid, 7, the only boy, was doing stuff that I wouldn't let go. He's mostly super sweet, but when his parents tell him, "No," he storms off waving his arms and making super-pissed faces. Now, he doesn't do it at school, but it is still a lesson that needs to be learned IMO.

    Well, on Christmas parents were enforcing the rules CaboChris mentioned above--you eat what we make and if you don't, you're hungry. Well, breakfast on Christmas morning was sausage, bacon, and hominy. The son doesn't like hominy, plus it was Christmas. They had already opened their gifts from Santa and the kids wanted to play. He didn't eat. Fast forward to dinner, and my sister-in-law made a fabulous dinner...for adults. It was full of stuff we all know the kids don't like. Barely touching his plate, the boy said he wanted to be excused to play and mom clearly warned him: there is no more dinner so he's going to be hungry until breakfast if he doesn't eat. He acknowledged he understood.

    Pajama time (8:30) rolls around and the boy begs for dinner. Standing by the rule, mom says no. Having not eaten all day--and let's face it, Christmas is exhausting as a kid--he stormed off like he has been for months, but this time in his tizzy he kicked his new Star Wars BB-8 toy across the room. Mom finally had it with that stuff, yelled at him, and when he wouldn't budge damn near dragged him down the hall to his room, left him there. Cue 30 minutes of sobbing coming from his room.

    On the way home, My wife and I discussed. My wife first brought up her dad's theory which is that if you want a good holiday as an adult, maybe some rules don't apply that dy. In other words, enforce it every day, but on Christmas if the kid wants dinner after it was served because he or she was too distracted by the day, just do it. You avoid the "hangry" (hungry+angry) meltdown. I said that I remembered on Christmas that my mom would buy those Pillsbury Orange Sweet Rolls, something she knew we all loved. So I said that maybe serving a breakfast you know your kids won't eat isn't the best way to start off Christmas.

    Then we both had the same thought that even though making multiple dinners on most days is just not feasible, maybe holidays are an exception if you want to enjoy them. Mac and cheese/chicken nuggets/quesadillas is a kid's idea of a great meal. It's easy to make--so why not on a holiday make sure that the kids have something they really like? Make your adult meal and at the same time microwave some nuggets or whatever.

    So what do you think? Are we lucky to be able to see parenting dos and don'ts? Are we on the right track? Should some rules not apply on Christmas so everyone enjoys the day?

    (To be fair, my sister and brother in law are good parents, and there are many things I like about what they do.)

  18. #11
    Eruption
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    The officially banned corporal punishment in schools where I live about a decade ago. I remember a couple of young elementary kids I know complaining about it. They said if the teacher spanked them, it'd hurt for a few minutes and be over. Now, with that not being allowed, the teacher gives them double homework or makes them write "I must not do _____" 100x and it's worse because their hand hurts from all the writing and it takes longer. They'd prefer being spanked and having it all over in 5 minutes.

  19. #12
    Atomic Punk Get The Show On The Road's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    It's funny, my wife and I are late to the party at 37, but we just got married, both our first marriage, and while there are risks in a late pregnancy, we are trying. But we have both had lots of time to observe what other parents do, and we always discuss what we saw and how we might do different when we're parents.

    Just this past Christmas, we saw events unfold that we discussed how we will handle them with our future kid(s).

    For several months, I would tell my wife when we left their house that the middle kid, 7, the only boy, was doing stuff that I wouldn't let go. He's mostly super sweet, but when his parents tell him, "No," he storms off waving his arms and making super-pissed faces. Now, he doesn't do it at school, but it is still a lesson that needs to be learned IMO.

    Well, on Christmas parents were enforcing the rules CaboChris mentioned above--you eat what we make and if you don't, you're hungry. Well, breakfast on Christmas morning was sausage, bacon, and hominy. The son doesn't like hominy, plus it was Christmas. They had already opened their gifts from Santa and the kids wanted to play. He didn't eat. Fast forward to dinner, and my sister-in-law made a fabulous dinner...for adults. It was full of stuff we all know the kids don't like. Barely touching his plate, the boy said he wanted to be excused to play and mom clearly warned him: there is no more dinner so he's going to be hungry until breakfast if he doesn't eat. He acknowledged he understood.

    Pajama time (8:30) rolls around and the boy begs for dinner. Standing by the rule, mom says no. Having not eaten all day--and let's face it, Christmas is exhausting as a kid--he stormed off like he has been for months, but this time in his tizzy he kicked his new Star Wars BB-8 toy across the room. Mom finally had it with that stuff, yelled at him, and when he wouldn't budge damn near dragged him down the hall to his room, left him there. Cue 30 minutes of sobbing coming from his room.

    On the way home, My wife and I discussed. My wife first brought up her dad's theory which is that if you want a good holiday as an adult, maybe some rules don't apply that dy. In other words, enforce it every day, but on Christmas if the kid wants dinner after it was served because he or she was too distracted by the day, just do it. You avoid the "hangry" (hungry+angry) meltdown. I said that I remembered on Christmas that my mom would buy those Pillsbury Orange Sweet Rolls, something she knew we all loved. So I said that maybe serving a breakfast you know your kids won't eat isn't the best way to start off Christmas.

    Then we both had the same thought that even though making multiple dinners on most days is just not feasible, maybe holidays are an exception if you want to enjoy them. Mac and cheese/chicken nuggets/quesadillas is a kid's idea of a great meal. It's easy to make--so why not on a holiday make sure that the kids have something they really like? Make your adult meal and at the same time microwave some nuggets or whatever.

    So what do you think? Are we lucky to be able to see parenting dos and don'ts? Are we on the right track? Should some rules not apply on Christmas so everyone enjoys the day?

    (To be fair, my sister and brother in law are good parents, and there are many things I like about what they do.)
    I believe that something "edible" in the kid's mind probably should have been provided. No need to be a hard ass on Christmas as long as you're not a push-over the rest of the year.

    If you want to avoid making multiple meals then cook something the kids will eat. I smoked a pork shoulder and a tri-tip and we had the usual sides like mashed potatoes and corn and my 4 and 2 year old did just fine with it. And the added benefit is that we didn't suffer an incident like you mentioned due to hunger.

    Just seems like a better way to go than doing something you know is going to result in a melt-down, but that's just me...
    The only genre I really know is Van Halen.

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  21. #13
    Atomic Punk I Coulda Hada VH's Avatar
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    If your kids like you, but don't respect you, then you have completely failed as a parent.
    "It's so lonely at the top because it's so crowded at the bottom" - Diamond David Lee Roth

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  23. #14
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    A two parent home with loving parents is ideal.

    Having said that, I grew up in a single parent home. I knew who was the boss. It's not necessary for there to be two parents. What's needed, is that one parent to do their job. Challenging but not impossible.
    it's far too challenging. This is why we have so many of the problems that we see in society today. The prisons are full of men who come from homes without fathers, damn near every troubled kid in school has the same story. It's not good. Nothing to do with not being able to hit your kid, it's being there for your kid (or in the case of too many, not being there). There's something to be said for the power of, especially a boy, disappointing his father. I'm 41 years old and to this day i don't want to ever disappoint my dad. And if dad's not around then that push towards not being a fuckup isn't nearly as strong. I really think that fatherhood, for whatever reason, is so under appreciated. Mommies (for good reason) get so much love. But boys model the behaviour of their dads. If your dad works and treats your mother like an angel, there's a 99% chance his sons will turn out fine. Too many boys don't have that sort of example to look at. They ever don't have a dad around or have a fuckup for a father. Fix that and most of society's issue disappear.

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  25. #15
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Coulda Hada VH View Post
    If your kids like you, but don't respect you, then you have completely failed as a parent.
    yup

 

 

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