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  1. #1
    Top Of The World The Space Ace's Avatar
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    12.12.17 @ 06:39 PM
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    Default Getting the "Hagar era sound" out of a 5150II/6505+

    So I just got a Peavey 6505+ 112 combo for Christmas. It's my first tube amp and a whole different animal compared to the cheap solid state modeling amp I had before. Anyway, I've been messing around with it and I'm wondering if I can get a tone out of it that's similar to Eddie's sound during the Hagar era. I've found a lot of discussion on the web about getting the brown sound out of this thing, but really nothing about the 1986 onward sounds. Has anyone else tried replicating it on these amps?

  2. #2
    Forum Frontman fudd's Avatar
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    You can get it by wetting the sound so to speak. Lightly using a chorus.


    Sent from my iPhone using swagger

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  4. #3
    Eruption mk5's Avatar
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    Default

    I think you'll find the voicing to be a little bit different than EVH's Hagar-era tones (the 5150II was developed around the VHIII era), but sure. If you really want to dial it in as close as possible, I would suggest listening to Ed's guitar on those albums through the left speaker only and trying to copy that, then add your delays. That's the "drier" signal whereas all the effects are more prominent in the right speaker.

    As you probably know, Ed used some sort of Eventide Harmonizer on each of those albums. He used the stereo detune feature to "bump" the guitar very slightly out of tune (-8 or -9 cents on the left and +8 or +9 cents on the right), which gave his sound the chorus tone without that sweep. You can google just that and probably read about it for hours across multiple forums.

    So, I'd suggest getting an Eventide Pitchfactor or something like a Boss Super Shifter/Pitch Shifter pedal to try and replicate the effect and get a delay pedal if you don't already have one. This will be the most critical factor in trying to replicate his Hagar era sound.

    Also, "supposedly" EVH tuned the 5150 II to include an approximation of his 1968 Marshall Plexi tone, as well. To get there, you will want to dime the gain on the clean channel. I can't recall if the crunch button should be in or out, but try both. I was told this by a guy named Marshall Madden, who was a Peavey dealer representative when I worked music retail (ugh) around the time this amp was released.

    You probably got more than you asked for here, but I hope it's helpful.
    How open-minded do I have to be before my brains start spilling out?

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  6. #4
    Top Of The World The Space Ace's Avatar
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    12.12.17 @ 06:39 PM
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mk5 View Post
    I think you'll find the voicing to be a little bit different than EVH's Hagar-era tones (the 5150II was developed around the VHIII era), but sure. If you really want to dial it in as close as possible, I would suggest listening to Ed's guitar on those albums through the left speaker only and trying to copy that, then add your delays. That's the "drier" signal whereas all the effects are more prominent in the right speaker.

    As you probably know, Ed used some sort of Eventide Harmonizer on each of those albums. He used the stereo detune feature to "bump" the guitar very slightly out of tune (-8 or -9 cents on the left and +8 or +9 cents on the right), which gave his sound the chorus tone without that sweep. You can google just that and probably read about it for hours across multiple forums.

    So, I'd suggest getting an Eventide Pitchfactor or something like a Boss Super Shifter/Pitch Shifter pedal to try and replicate the effect and get a delay pedal if you don't already have one. This will be the most critical factor in trying to replicate his Hagar era sound.

    Also, "supposedly" EVH tuned the 5150 II to include an approximation of his 1968 Marshall Plexi tone, as well. To get there, you will want to dime the gain on the clean channel. I can't recall if the crunch button should be in or out, but try both. I was told this by a guy named Marshall Madden, who was a Peavey dealer representative when I worked music retail (ugh) around the time this amp was released.

    You probably got more than you asked for here, but I hope it's helpful.
    Thanks! All of this is a big help.

  7. #5
    Eruption AFU's Avatar
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    12.10.17 @ 09:00 AM
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    Default

    Rhythym channel with gain cranked is the 5150 secret weapon. Few know or use it.

    For Hagar era tones as stated modulation like chorus or what Ed used, Eventide detune on the lead channel. And an EBMM EVH/Axis. As soon as I plug my Axis into my old 5150 I'm told it's the Carnal Knowledge sound. I think it's closer to VH II(closer I said. Not exact). I just use a bit of delay in the loop and it's enough for me to get 90's Ed.

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  9. #6
    Good Enough 5150rob's Avatar
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    12.12.17 @ 03:47 PM
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    I have a BOSS super shifter for my EVH 5150 III and when I had my Peavey 5150 combo (which is basically the same as your 6505) and I gotta tell you.... I have it set on d tune and am able to dial in an amazing 5150 through Balance era sound depending on how I have the mix.... Its perfect for that era. That pedal does wonders for pretty much any amp for the Hagar era sound. The Pitchfactor is probably the best way to go but the most expensive. The Boss super shifter is a much cheaper and alternative and it WORKS like a charm. Would never sell that pedal.

    Rob

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  11. #7
    Eruption
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    12.12.17 @ 03:10 PM
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    Default

    I use these settings quite a bit with my 5150II combo and I'm happy with them. I found them off the Wolfgang Registry website and changed them slightly... I think they were called "Balance Era" or "Balance Tour" on the site.

    INPUT - 1
    RHY PRE - 7
    BRIGHT - off
    CRUNCH - off
    RHY POST - 6
    LEAD PRE - 7
    LEAD POST -7 (says 7 but I put it way lower than that just practicing in my basement)
    EQ LOW - 6
    EQ MID - 2
    EQ HIGH - 5
    REV - 0
    RES - 3
    PRES -7

  12. #8
    Hot For Teacher danielleesale's Avatar
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    11.19.17 @ 03:14 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by AFU View Post
    Rhythym channel with gain cranked is the 5150 secret weapon. Few know or use it.
    I do! With my Peavey combo, I go from clean/fairly-high-gain with my guitar's volume control. I have no complaints with the sound.

  13. #9
    Hot For Teacher danielleesale's Avatar
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    11.19.17 @ 03:14 PM
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 5150rob View Post
    I have a BOSS super shifter for my EVH 5150 III and when I had my Peavey 5150 combo (which is basically the same as your 6505) and I gotta tell you.... I have it set on d tune and am able to dial in an amazing 5150 through Balance era sound depending on how I have the mix.... Its perfect for that era. That pedal does wonders for pretty much any amp for the Hagar era sound. The Pitchfactor is probably the best way to go but the most expensive. The Boss super shifter is a much cheaper and alternative and it WORKS like a charm. Would never sell that pedal.

    Rob
    I have that pedal (and combo amp) but haven't messed with the detune. Sounds likes I have some tinkering to do.

  14. #10
    On Fire Stealth5150's Avatar
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    11.10.17 @ 05:45 AM
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    Default

    I used to have a Boss PS-6 Harmonist before I got my Pitchfactor and it did the Hagar era pretty damn good too.

    Keeley now has the 30 ms Double Tracker that also sounds like it will do the detune quite nicely. There's a lot of VH riffs interjected into this demo:


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  16. #11
    Hot For Teacher danielleesale's Avatar
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    Default

    I have the Boss Harmonist & just tried it out. Sounds *really* good, and will be hard to play without it now Wow, I had tried a lot of things to get that sound cheaply, from different choruses, to the Digitech Luxe pedal which will, quite frankly, get you nowhere close. It's nice to have now remedied the issue.

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  18. #12
    On Fire Stealth5150's Avatar
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    11.10.17 @ 05:45 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielleesale View Post
    I have the Boss Harmonist & just tried it out. Sounds *really* good, and will be hard to play without it now Wow, I had tried a lot of things to get that sound cheaply, from different choruses, to the Digitech Luxe pedal which will, quite frankly, get you nowhere close. It's nice to have now remedied the issue.
    That's awesome man! If I remember right, I ran it +10/-10 in stereo since there was no option for +/-9. Sounded damn good!

  19. #13
    Forum Frontman fudd's Avatar
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    Once you get the 5150ii over 3 on the volume it's somewhat hard to tell the difference what effect you use.


    Sent from my iPhone using swagger

  20. #14
    Sinner's Swing!
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    11.25.17 @ 09:06 AM
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AFU View Post
    Rhythym channel with gain cranked is the 5150 secret weapon. Few know or use it.

    For Hagar era tones as stated modulation like chorus or what Ed used, Eventide detune on the lead channel. And an EBMM EVH/Axis. As soon as I plug my Axis into my old 5150 I'm told it's the Carnal Knowledge sound. I think it's closer to VH II(closer I said. Not exact). I just use a bit of delay in the loop and it's enough for me to get 90's Ed.
    Yep. Absolutely true. I used this method for quite some time, then I experimented with preamp tubes, changing a couple of them out for 12au7 or 12ay7's. They tame the preamp in the midpoint area, but still have gain to spare if you really want to push it.

    What me and a few other friends found for a low buck way to get the Van Hagar era sound out of 5150, and 5150 II's was lowering the overall gain via the rhythm/crunch channel, and in the effects loop using a chorus ensemble pedal first, and a digital delay pedal second.
    I used the Boss stuff...The CE-3 Chorus Ensemble pedal, and the DD-3 Stereo Delay.
    The CE-3 was great because it wasn't just the typical overly swoopy over the top chorus. You could fine tune it to give a much more 949-ish detuned kind of sound, and EQ it further to edge off any residual swoopiness of the pedal by boosting/cutting frequencies with the concentric EQ knobs. It was the absolute closest pedal I ever found to emulating the Van Hagar sound.
    The other cool side effect of how the pedal works is that it actually made squeals, and other harmonic technique effects really pop because of the broader harmonically rich pallet it creates. It's pretty wild! It just sounds nice and thick without sounding cheesy. Less is more with the settings. Very important.
    The DD-3 is just a very good delay. Always has been. No sense going into the workings of it. It works the same as any delay, but one I'd recommend to anyone because it is just so trouble free and easy to set with little dicking around.


    These days, of course there's the new Eventide stompboxes. They do the job for sure, but as with anything historically from Eventide, they are much more of an investment of both money and time. I own the Pitchfactor, and I have owned a 949 years ago, and I'm no stranger to the even older 910. They are very cool effects, and are a very worthwhile effect to own in a home studio setting as they are a versatile tool, but from experience, and if money is an issue, I'd say ask yourself, is getting a rather simple detune/chorus-y shimmer worth the price tag of the Eventide?

    I do have my feelings on the Eventide gear. I've been on a couple forums where some people ended up thinking they were just too much pedal, and having a bit of buyers remorse. They wanted the Van Hagar sound so badly, and of course immediately recognize that Eddie used Eventide Harmonizers for most of the 80's in his racks.
    They are amazing units of course, and do so much more than detune, or get that "eddie/Van Hagar" sound.
    Plus there are tons of new pedals on the market that can be had for a fraction of the price that actually come with a "Harmonizer" and detune effect if that's what you are solely after, and they sound real good!
    If you want a unit that has all the bells and whistles, intelligent pitch shift, can learn scale structure of a piece you are working on, and accompany you, arpeggiate pitches, layer multiple pitch shifted components....If you can see yourself using all or some those benefits, then the Eventide would be a good way to go, and can open up a whole new realm of production effects to your recording.
    If you can find one for a good price online, then I say go for it, but I've seen a number of people kind of regret going for the Eventide just because they soon realize it's not as cut and dried a unit they think it is when paying in upwards of $500 bucks just to run in a guitar amp effects loop/ simple home rig to achieve a relatively simple effect.
    Last edited by we die young; 01.04.16 at 03:45 PM.

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  22. #15
    Top Of The World The Space Ace's Avatar
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    12.12.17 @ 06:39 PM
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    Wow...thanks for all the input! I'm looking into buying a pedal or two but I'm not sure what route to go yet since there are a lot of different recommendations and a lot of research for me to do. I've looked mostly into the Boss Chorus Ensemble so far, but I'm still looking at everything.

 

 

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