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  1. #1
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    09.10.17 @ 07:23 PM
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    Default 'Making A Murderer' If You Have Not Watched Spoiler Alert

    Just finished and I am shocked and feel so sorry for this family...How in the hell do you go from 7-3-2 favor of acquittal to 12 unanimous,especially after reviewing all the evidence? The pin hole in the top of the sealed blood vial alone was enough to convince me...Then you throw in the cop calling in her tag number 2 full days before car was even found? A man on the verge of collecting 36 million commits murder?They stabbed ,cut her throat,and shot her 11 times and not one speck of her blood is found,yet they park her car on their property on a hill by the way with a few tree branches covering it up,and her blood in cargo area? And they burn her body less than 20 feet from house? The juvenile's own attorney's private investigator reading a letter that says "this family tree has only one branch,and they must be exterminated"... What the hell?


    Reasonable doubt should not even be questioned and is embarrassing that those 12 people are so stupid...

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  3. #2
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    09.10.17 @ 07:23 PM
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    5 reasons you will be obsessed...

    If you haven’t seen Netflix’s new show Making a Murderer yet, you surely have heard someone you know talking about it, or have seen Alec Baldwin tweeting about it. But what is it about the show that has everyone so obsessed? Here are a few reasons why we’re into it, and why you should binge-watch it before, after, and possibly even during your upcoming holiday celebrations.

    http://decider.com/2015/12/23/5-reas...ng-a-murderer/

  4. #3
    Gird your loins Daisy Hill's Avatar
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    12.17.17 @ 03:53 PM
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    this show is riveting. Really after the first episode and the jaw dropping discovery of the car you are HOOKED

    for those who don't know, it's a true story about a guy who was an outsider and a bit of a fuck up with a criminal record, who was rail roaded by a police department and ended up spending 18 years in prison for a rape he obviously did not commit

    he sued everyone involved after he was released with many of them facing financial ruin, loss of pensions and savings etc, because their insurance companies would not have paid a judgement due to their intentional actions

    so the guy was supposed to be honing in on winning a huge judgement and within days of the court filing was suddenly charged with the murder of a auto trader photographer who had visited his family junk yard dozens of times to take pictures of cars for sale

    and the murder trial comes off as another railroading

    it's amazing

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  6. #4
    Gird your loins Daisy Hill's Avatar
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    12.17.17 @ 03:53 PM
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    this is the facebook page of the juror who was dismissed due to an emergency

    based on the info he was given he would not have convicted, however he says he was told by another juror that one of the reasons they convicted was the stuff he had done in his youth
    https://www.facebook.com/rickraybine?_rdr=p
    sure he was a fuck up and ended up in prison for breaking into a bar and stealing 14 dollars and cheese sandwiches for which he got a pretty harsh 10 month sentence

    then there was the animal cruelty charge for setting the family pet on fire (which is very disturbing because abuse of animals is a red flag for psychopaths)

    then the big thing that seems to have shaped his future, the conviction for threatening his cousin with a gun (she being the wife of a sheriffs deputy as well as the best friend of another deputy who was in charge of the rape case that Avery did NOT commit but spent 18 years in prison for)

    I don't believe the cops killed this woman to frame Steven, I think that they just took advantage of the situation and made sure that there was as much evidence as possible to "make the charges stick" I think DNA was a big thing for them as it freed him the first time, so they wanted to make sure that DNA tied him to it this time

    so he was obviously well known in the criminal system...but his brothers! Earl was charged with sexual assault and sexual assault of a child among other things and his brother chuck was also charge with domestic violence. Each of them had a reason to be jealous of Steven as well with their shares of the family business diminished by Steven coming back to the family.

    seems like the brothers supported Steven at first then abruptly turned away from him...especially Earl.

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    09.10.17 @ 07:23 PM
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    Here you go Daisy...

    https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurd...nued_spoilers/

    My question on the one below is this blog is written in 2009...Why didn't film makers tell of this?

    http://www.convolutedbrian.com/an-alternative.html
    Last edited by buster65; 12.26.15 at 07:15 PM.

  8. #6
    Gird your loins Daisy Hill's Avatar
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    12.17.17 @ 03:53 PM
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    holy cow Buster! well that's certainly interesting!

    I still think it is more likely that the murder or accidental killing was more likely done by someone close to Steven who knew he was going to be suspect number 1 and there was going to be no suspect number 2. I don't believe that anyone from the sheriff's department would murder this girl to frame him, just as I don't believe that the kid got off the bus, took the mail to his uncle and in a second became a cold hearted murderer and rapist. I feel sorriest for him. He was just a pawn that they needed to seal the deal and they got what they wanted. Terrible.

    why was it not brought up that there was a forge on the property? if it was Steven, wasn't it more likely a place to dispose of a body than the bonfire pit behind his damn trailer?
    why was nothing more made of the needle hole in the stored blood vial?
    or if it was Steven why wasn't the car immediately put thru the car crusher instead of being stored in a place so obvious that the volunteer searcher (although she was a PI) found it in only 10 minutes? there was 40 acres of cars to hide the thing in and it was stored pretty much up front?

    was there ever any evidence that the gun in the trailer was linked ballistically to the bullet that was found 4 months later? it was so degraded I don't know how much you could do with it.

    The whole thing makes no sense from Steven's standpoint...absolutely none...but then again his previous crimes were oddball stuff that made no sense either.

    What's fantastic about this film is that it followed Steven from the time he got out of jail thru the lawsuit and straight thru the trial for the new crime. The fact that it all happened so quickly was obviously a fluke that made for a great documentary.

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    12.18.17 @ 02:31 PM
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    We are 6 episodes in, but unlike Serial season 1, I feel like this is being told from one perspective, where as the conceit of Serial was trying to find the truth. That's not to say it doesn't look damn fishy so far, but I did read about something interesting.

    My wife's former office used to share a bathroom with the local FBI office. She struck up conversations with them sometimes. My wife once was telling her, jokingly, how we think our youngest niece could grow up to be a serial killer. The agent, in turn, said that there are three things to look out for in predicting who might become dangerous when they are older. For the life of me I can only remember two, but one is cruelty to animals and two is enjoying fire.

    I think we tend to think documentaries give us the truth, but in reality they nearly all have a perspective (seeL Michael Moore, Blackfish, etc.) According to Vulture, when Steven Avery cops to 'mischief' with a cat and a fireplace, the show doesn't mention that what in fact he had done was douse a cat with gasoline and oil, throw it into a bonfire, and watch it die. According to the Wisconsin State Journal, Steven's uncle actually thinks the town turned against Avery when that fact was released, not when they show the town turning against him in the Netflix series.

    So while I am no psychologist or law-enforcement agent, I think it's notable that they glossed over something that involves two things the FBI says to look out for in people who can become dangerous or murderers. That said, the evidence seems to show exactly the perspective that the documentary wants to show, so it's hard not to think he was railroaded. But that is, of course, why I want to know more about what might have been left out here.

    I will say that I really like Avery's lawyers. They seem sharp and they seem interested in justice and liberty, not winning. One thing that Serial, this show (so far), and other research has shown is that, without a doubt, detectives and prosecutors are looking for convictions, not truth. THey probably often coincide, but not always. As long as it is a conviction, though, it reflects well on them. My wife and I both argue that a criminal defense attorney's job is to make sure his client has a fair trial, not to get him or her off at all costs. However, I am beginning to understand the 'win at all costs' attitude when the deck is so stacked against them, reinforced by those in power.

    I am anxious to finish the series.

  10. #8
    Gird your loins Daisy Hill's Avatar
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    12.17.17 @ 03:53 PM
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    A shocking aspect of this situation, is what little it takes to get Avery convicted and non existent evidence that I would find to be crucial to convict. I agree that there are some troubling things in his past...VERY troubling things... but one has to be convicted for the crime before the court and obviously the town ( and particularly the court system) well knows the Averys and so everything is tainted with that. When questioned about the rape case that Avery was freed from with indisputable DNA evidence, one deputy (on the stand) still expresses that he is unsure of Avery's innocence! tell me that doesn't show prejudice.

    given that Avery was about to come into a no doubt HELLACIOUS amount of money from suing the county, and that the root cause and thus the public scrutiny for that financial debacle would be the actions of the sheriff's department, the statements by the sheriff and deputies that the lawsuit didn't affect their judgement because it was a "county" lawsuit, not a lawsuit naming the sheriff department directly is a joke.

    the biggest tragedy here is the poor dumb nephew and his "confession". If you are only 6 episodes in, there is much more about the nephew and particularly regarding his first court appointed attorney that just shake your faith in the system to the core. The resolution of his case is particularly dumbfounding in relation to Avery's case.

    I think it is the 9th or 10th episode that background about the prosecutor that will make you want to throw a shoe at the television as well!

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    12.18.17 @ 02:31 PM
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    I agree with most of that. I agree that the police basically knew he didn't rape that woman, knew who did, yet still wanted to convict Avery of it. Then within 2 years of getting out, as it turns out the city and police might be on the hook for millions in Avery's lawsuit, he gets arrested for this crime. The key, the blood, the bones, all suspicious.

    I do think they lost the case on the FBI's testimony. The defense did what they could do, and I know it was 7-3-2 (though after the juror dismissal it could have been 6-4-2 or 6-3-3), but I think people tend to err on the side that the government is trying to find the truth (when actually a conviction is the only goal regardless of 'truth.'), and I would put my money on the FBI testimony being a big deal.

    As far as why more wasn't made over the needle prick in the blood vial, maybe that point was made. That goes back to my first post. We are seeing what the filmmakers want us to see, including which parts of the trial we see. I tend to believe Avery and his nephew are innocent, but now that I know the filmmakers were willing to leave out torturing and killing an animal, I want to know what else they weren't 100% about or lied by omission. Maybe it would change my mind, I don't know.

    Did you guys notice that one of the two investigators from the AG's office who investigated after he was released in 2003 was in regular attendance of the murder trial? I want to know more about that.

  12. #10
    Gird your loins Daisy Hill's Avatar
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    12.17.17 @ 03:53 PM
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    "Did you guys notice that one of the two investigators from the AG's office who investigated after he was released in 2003 was in regular attendance of the murder trial? I want to know more about that."

    that's the least of it. It was announced on TV that that the county sheriff's office was out of it (there fore giving the public the idea that the investigation was fair) when they were ALL OVER that investigation from the beginning. As you say, people want to trust their police department is trying to protect them and get to the truth, so defense was swimming up stream trying to hammer home how invested the local county was in this investigation...especially Lenk

    and wait til you see Brendans post conviction hearings and how those play out....truly jaw dropping. If EVER there was a case for "railroading" Brendan Dassey is the poster boy.

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    12.18.17 @ 02:31 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daisy Hill View Post
    "Did you guys notice that one of the two investigators from the AG's office who investigated after he was released in 2003 was in regular attendance of the murder trial? I want to know more about that."

    that's the least of it. It was announced on TV that that the county sheriff's office was out of it (there fore giving the public the idea that the investigation was fair) when they were ALL OVER that investigation from the beginning. As you say, people want to trust their police department is trying to protect them and get to the truth, so defense was swimming up stream trying to hammer home how invested the local county was in this investigation...especially Lenk

    and wait til you see Brendans post conviction hearings and how those play out....truly jaw dropping. If EVER there was a case for "railroading" Brendan Dassey is the poster boy.
    I actually think she was the AG investigator who seemed very matter of fact that the original rape case was mishandled at worst and intentional at best. She seemed much more willing to point out problems in her depositions than the other woman. And when they read text to the other woman about it being mishandled, she said something like, "Deb would've written that," (episode 1), though she agreed with the statement.



    The AG, likely for political reasons (though this series has a point of view so who knows what else the report said) said there was no wrong doing.

    But as you can see above, she is there for the murder trial? Why? Did the AG send her? Is she there because she thinks the police are corrupt? They show her but never point out that she's there.

    I find that strange. What was she doing there?


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  14. #12
    Gird your loins Daisy Hill's Avatar
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    12.17.17 @ 03:53 PM
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    yeah I think she was there to see how the case was handled because there were accusations regarding the sheriff framing Avery in this case.

    where it comes to the Wisconsin justice system looking out for its own is really detailed in episode 9 and 10

    once charged Avery was really on an uphill road based upon prejudicial info released by the prosecutor

    and once convicted? Herculean task to get someone to look at the case and say the conviction was fishy. especially after your hearings are exhausted and you no longer have even a public defender...that's where organizations like the Innocence Project come in
    Last edited by Daisy Hill; 12.28.15 at 12:06 PM.

  15. #13
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    09.10.17 @ 07:23 PM
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    There was a lawyer that was quoted on one of the sites that said the saddest thing he remembered was when during one of the jailhouse calls between Brendan and his mother...Brendan said "mom they say my story is inconsistent,what does inconsistent mean?" and she replies "I don't know"...

    I simply do not understand why there are not lawyers(even the ones they already had) that do not continue this fight for free?Avery's lawyers were paid by his original settlement and that was a lot of money and have now made them a household name...Fucking man up and work for free if need be...

  16. #14
    Gird your loins Daisy Hill's Avatar
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    12.17.17 @ 03:53 PM
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    Brendan does have someone from an organization that works with young people and forced confessions and they plan on taking his case to the US Supreme Court based upon the constitutional right to have an attorney who is protecting your rights...and we all by now that Len and particularly Mike Okelly (the investigator for Brendans attorney) were not working on his behalf and undermining his rights in a shocking and harmful way

    it all went pear shaped for Brendan when his attorney decided he was guilty and started the pressure for a confession.

    Avery I understand does have some support from the Innocence project, but only on certain aspects of his case whatever that means.

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    09.10.17 @ 07:23 PM
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    Hey, they both may be guilty as hell? I just don't think so and I hope it is proven...

 

 

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