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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
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    12.11.17 @ 04:37 PM
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    Default Goodbye Middle Class

    Goodbye Middle Class: 51 Percent Of All American Workers Make Less Than 30,000 Dollars A Year

    We just got more evidence that the middle class in America is dying. According to brand new numbers that were just released by the Social Security Administration, 51 percent of all workers in the United States make less than $30,000 a year. Let that number sink in for a moment. You can’t support a middle class family in America today on just $2,500 a month – especially after taxes are taken out. And yet more than half of all workers in this country make less than that each month. In order to have a thriving middle class, you have got to have an economy that produces lots of middle class jobs, and that simply is not happening in America today.


    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/...rs-a-year.html
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.” -- Gen. George S. Patton

  2. #2
    Atomic Punk edwardv's Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 08:01 AM
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    Sad situation. So many factors come into play here. Both parties are to BLAME. System is broken. I'm not endorsing this guy but this tells it all.

    EVH 1979: Well, actually it's not much of a vacation, because we run everything ourselves. We design our own album cover, we have to be in the office every day to sign checks - the whole corporation revolves around us. Nothing can be done without our approval. We even have photo approval.

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  4. #3
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Default

    it's an issue to be sure. The bigger issue than the pure income numbers are the instability of work. Now instead of having stable jobs so many people have contract jobs, working as an f-ing uber driver part time. Even those with stable jobs are being nickel and dimed to death. I work for an insanely profitable company and over the past 3 years we've had our benefits program reduced and starting next year they're "changing" the pension. I don't know what the answer is but i know it's not because of lack of moeny in system but rather the middle is being chewed up and all the money is flowing up.

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  6. #4
    ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ Number 47's Avatar
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    Default Goodbye Middle Class


  7. #5
    Atomic Punk japeape's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 09:05 PM
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    Default

    It's all driven by greed, and we take it.

    Eventually (and i see it coming, working with the public & observing behavior year after year),
    there will be some form of anarchy, where the Have's will be targeted by the Have-not's.

    The middle class is being squeezed like a lemon.
    Poverty will be the norm & people will become more and more resentful,
    and simply not care as a result.

  8. #6
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    Remember what they are counting here though--individual income, not household incomes. We typically use household income to determine class, but even that ignores the household size. Two of these sub-$30,000 earners together, married, under one roof would be considered middle class, even with a kid or two. Of course, even other factors apply, like location.

    2013 is the last year I can easily find data for, and if we look at median household income, only 34% of American households bring in less than $35,000 per year. That's opposed to 57% in the AWI for Social Security. If you use the Pew Research definition of middle class, which would be, year 2013, about $35,000 a year, per household, to about $104,000 a year, per household, you're at about 45% of households being middle class, and about 34% below that threshold. Again, there are other factors like location and household size, but that paints a different picture. In constant dollars, compared to 1975, the middle class has shrunk from 50% of households to 45%, while the number of households above middle class have more than doubled. But what also happened is that the amount of households below the middle class threshold decreased from 38% to the aforementioned 34%.

    But again, that doesn't take into account location or household size, though household size had decreased by 14% since 1975.

    And while there are people out there struggling without a spouse, earning below $30,000 with multiple kids, when I was in my early 20s, nearly every single one of my friends was working at a restaurant, earning $20-$30,000, a lot of it in tips, living with their middle class parents, and going to college. Tough to consider them 'poor' like the low-income mom with several kids, but this index doesn't distinguish between them.
    Last edited by lovemachine97(Version 2); 10.26.15 at 11:17 AM.

  9. #7
    Eruption
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    11.17.17 @ 05:11 AM
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    Default

    Pretty sure it's a global phenomenon. Just last week over here on the other side of the Pacific, we had a similar report. From what I've heard from family and friends in various other countries around the world, the situation is similar everywhere. While on a domestic level in every country both / all political parties are typically to blame in part, I think it is more a symptom of the global economic system.

  10. #8
    Sinner's Swing! Jesus H Christ's Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 06:39 AM
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    Default PAUL HARVEY FREEDOM TO CHAINS 1965

    Worth a listen

    "The less I needed, the better I felt." ~ Charles Bukowski.

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  12. #9
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 08:56 AM
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardv View Post
    Sad situation. So many factors come into play here. Both parties are to BLAME. System is broken. I'm not endorsing this guy but this tells it all.

    If it's him vs Trump it won't be close. Doens't matter that he's socialist, people will be able to relate to Bernie. And he was completely right in this video. Sadly the problem isn't getting better, it's getting worse.

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  14. #10
    Good Enough BlindtotheWorld's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 10:04 AM
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    Default

    This is a bit of an unsubstantiated rant but...it feels like we make/manufacture absolutely nothing anymore and our economy is built on servicing the needs of those that are earning decent money. Now with online shopping, you don’t even have local retail presence and the associated jobs. The reality is the consumer by and large wants cheap product (cheap labor markets) and not leave the house to get it. Not ideal for energizing the local economy. I couldn’t even find a steam iron recently that wasn’t made in China. We’d rather pay $30 for a China iron than pay $70 for one made in the USA with domestically sourced materials and components. We reap what we sow...or to look at it another way, don't have anything to reap because we don't sow.
    "...it's steak and whiskey time in America." - bklynboy68

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  16. #11
    Atomic Punk RRvh1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlindtotheWorld View Post
    This is a bit of an unsubstantiated rant but...it feels like we make/manufacture absolutely nothing anymore and our economy is built on servicing the needs of those that are earning decent money. Now with online shopping, you don’t even have local retail presence and the associated jobs. The reality is the consumer by and large wants cheap product (cheap labor markets) and not leave the house to get it. Not ideal for energizing the local economy. I couldn’t even find a steam iron recently that wasn’t made in China. We’d rather pay $30 for a China iron than pay $70 for one made in the USA with domestically sourced materials and components. We reap what we sow...or to look at it another way, don't have anything to reap because we don't sow.
    This is absolutely true!
    "There's too many people on this basketball that's floating around the sun, who are too afraid to allow themselves to FEEL" - Edward Van Halen
    "Van Halen was never about the singer..." - a very wise fan.
    "Embrace the past. Live in the moment but keep your eyes on the future, and keep on moving forward..." - Richie Sambora

  17. #12
    Atomic Punk ziggysmalls's Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 08:21 AM
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    The problem we have here is we don't really build anything in this country. Well not to the level of what we once did. Blind isn't so blind. We all can bitch and moan about the loss of jobs overseas. However we do not want to pay 10k for a LED TV> We don't want to pay $1500 for an IPHONE. We don't want to spend $2500 on a PS4. We want our goods cheap. Can't do that on a Western Payroll. Especially when you add in Unions, health care costs, etc

    This has been the case for two generations so jobs for less educated workers are moving overseas. With technology advances, white collar jobs are now moving for the same reason. Why pay double for a customer service rep here in the states when you can get one on India for pennies on the dollar? Or if you need a bunch of people to code, why pay an American three times the salary of a guy in China? In the past, this wasn't conceivable due to limitations of data and voice., Now with Al Gore's internet, everything is possible.

    Also we have a problem with the idea that one has to go to college to make it. Demand doesn't equal supply. Therefore you have a lot of people who are educated with degrees that can't find work. Half of them probably have a useless degree to begin with so they will not have any transferable skills unless they reeducate themselves. However they are no up to their ass in debt with their loan.

    The country would be better off if people gave up the idea that college equals success. Skill equals success You need to provide a service that makes you valuable. If a degree gives you that, then fine. However a trade can do the same.

    Many things have caused the erosion of the middle class. Parties are too blame as well.

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  19. #13
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ziggysmalls View Post
    The problem we have here is we don't really build anything in this country. Well not to the level of what we once did. Blind isn't so blind. We all can bitch and moan about the loss of jobs overseas. However we do not want to pay 10k for a LED TV> We don't want to pay $1500 for an IPHONE. We don't want to spend $2500 on a PS4. We want our goods cheap. Can't do that on a Western Payroll. Especially when you add in Unions, health care costs, etc

    This has been the case for two generations so jobs for less educated workers are moving overseas. With technology advances, white collar jobs are now moving for the same reason. Why pay double for a customer service rep here in the states when you can get one on India for pennies on the dollar? Or if you need a bunch of people to code, why pay an American three times the salary of a guy in China? In the past, this wasn't conceivable due to limitations of data and voice., Now with Al Gore's internet, everything is possible.

    Also we have a problem with the idea that one has to go to college to make it. Demand doesn't equal supply. Therefore you have a lot of people who are educated with degrees that can't find work. Half of them probably have a useless degree to begin with so they will not have any transferable skills unless they reeducate themselves. However they are no up to their ass in debt with their loan.

    The country would be better off if people gave up the idea that college equals success. Skill equals success You need to provide a service that makes you valuable. If a degree gives you that, then fine. However a trade can do the same.

    Many things have caused the erosion of the middle class. Parties are too blame as well.
    i wonder if we're going to end up going back to one income families because of all of this. The upper middle class and the upper class will always remain, and in fact they are making more than they ever have. The working class will also always exist - there will always be jobs that cannot be exported. I wonder if we get a point where families with one person making a good income and one making not good money say to themselves that they'll make do on the one salary and have an easier life. I also wonder (and this is more of a case in the states than here) when the "why are we importing workers?" thing kicks in.

  20. #14
    carpe damn diem billy007's Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 05:59 AM
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    Default

    I also feel like we are being scalped. How much does it really cost to make an iPhone - whether here or abroad? How much does it cost to develop the latest copy of Office (probably be less if they'd quit moving shit that didn't need to be moved!)? Used to be, new technology was expensive, but as it became wide spread, the cost went down - think of VCRs and bigger TVs. But especially with phones and computers, it doesn't feel like that happens - I think we've shown we're willing to pay a premium for these things so why should they bother discounting them? It's not as if they have us over a barrel as they do on meds, but we still continue to pay.

    And then there is the "do it all from home" aspect that been mentioned. I hope stores and stuff like that don't go away, as I like to get out of the house every once in a while and go somewhere!

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  22. #15
    Master Bluesman Elwood P.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlindtotheWorld View Post
    I couldn’t even find a steam iron recently that wasn’t made in China.
    True. Go to Lowe's or Home Depot and try to find a screwdriver or wrench built in the US. Couple of years ago you could. And I didn't mind paying an extra couple of bucks for them. Darn near impossible today.
    "I'm the opposite of Bill Cosby. Diamond Dave always gets your approval." (DLR)

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