Follow us on...
Follow us on Twitter Follow us on Facebook Watch us on YouTube
Register
Results 1 to 12 of 12
  1. #1
    Good Enough Kevin Dodds's Avatar
    Join Date
    10.25.11
    Age
    45
    Location
    Austin
    Posts
    1,806
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning
    Favorite VH Song

    "Unchained"
    Last Online

    09.15.17 @ 08:03 AM
    Likes
    1,331
    Liked 1,395 Times in 441 Posts

    Default OPINION: Trem springs impact on humbucker?!?

    I'm travelling for work and am spending a few extra days out in San Francisco with a guitarist friend of mine -- we made a Frank replica for him last year (with a German Floyd!).

    We were looking for parts a guitar shop in San Rafael, and got to talking with the guys there and since I was involved, Ed came up. One of the guys there said he thought that the humbucker-on-a-Strat thing was all wrong because the trem springs interact with the pickup and muddy up or at least compromise the sound.

    I stopped short of telling him he was nucking futs, but -- I'm not too sure about that claim. I did a brief web search and found only a few mentions of this.

    What do you guys think?

    KBD3

  2. #2
    Sinner's Swing! evhintexas's Avatar
    Join Date
    11.12.11
    Age
    49
    Location
    Tx
    Posts
    3,039
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning
    Favorite VH Song

    Push comes to shove
    Last Online

    12.09.17 @ 03:43 PM
    Likes
    1,425
    Liked 1,107 Times in 675 Posts


    Premium Member

    Donor

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Dodds View Post
    I'm travelling for work and am spending a few extra days out in San Francisco with a guitarist friend of mine -- we made a Frank replica for him last year (with a German Floyd!).

    We were looking for parts a guitar shop in San Rafael, and got to talking with the guys there and since I was involved, Ed came up. One of the guys there said he thought that the humbucker-on-a-Strat thing was all wrong because the trem springs interact with the pickup and muddy up or at least compromise the sound.

    I stopped short of telling him he was nucking futs, but -- I'm not too sure about that claim. I did a brief web search and found only a few mentions of this.

    What do you guys think?

    KBD3
    He has done way to much acid with the Dead Heads
    ....I have never found a use for a single coil in the bridge position and I've owned several original Strats.
    I guess he's not a tonechaser
    Piss on him lol
    Last edited by evhintexas; 10.09.15 at 06:36 PM.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government.

  3. The Following Member Likes This Post:


  4. #3
    Atomic Punk RRvh1's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.13.11
    Location
    Ontari-ari-ari-o!
    Posts
    16,442
    Favorite VH Album

    VH, 1984, 5150, F.U.C.K.
    Favorite VH Song

    A few of Daves, a few of Sams!
    Last Online

    12.17.17 @ 01:34 PM
    Likes
    6,140
    Liked 6,982 Times in 5,015 Posts


    Premium Member

    Default

    ^^^ I wouldn't have "stopped short of...", Kevin!
    LOL.
    "There's too many people on this basketball that's floating around the sun, who are too afraid to allow themselves to FEEL" - Edward Van Halen
    "Van Halen was never about the singer..." - a very wise fan.
    "Embrace the past. Live in the moment but keep your eyes on the future, and keep on moving forward..." - Richie Sambora

  5. The Following Member Likes This Post:


  6. #4
    Unchained VF5150's Avatar
    Join Date
    05.08.07
    Age
    28
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    528
    Last Online

    10.09.15 @ 09:03 PM
    Likes
    0
    Liked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default

    Lol, I bet he was trying to talk about spring noise. I notice a lot of guitarists have vocabulary problems


    "out of the seven threads he's started here, four have been closed for being cluelessly ponderous as well as outright insipid"
    -chefcraig on me

  7. The Following Member Likes This Post:


  8. #5
    Sinner's Swing! evhintexas's Avatar
    Join Date
    11.12.11
    Age
    49
    Location
    Tx
    Posts
    3,039
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning
    Favorite VH Song

    Push comes to shove
    Last Online

    12.09.17 @ 03:43 PM
    Likes
    1,425
    Liked 1,107 Times in 675 Posts


    Premium Member

    Donor

    Default

    Eddie revolutionized spring noise
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government.

  9. The Following Member Likes This Post:


  10. #6
    Good Enough nobozos's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.16.00
    Location
    Pekin, Il U.S.A.
    Posts
    1,752
    Last Online

    12.17.17 @ 07:24 AM
    Likes
    24
    Liked 736 Times in 349 Posts

    Default

    I have my own theory about trem equipped guitars, but it doesn't really have to do with "spring noise", exclusively. I know the guy may not have put it well, but he may be more right than you are giving him credit for.

    First, my theory:

    On any guitar, every component plays a part in the tone. The string vibrates, and transfers its vibrations through the saddles to the bridge plate, and from the bridge plate to the body. The body of the guitar will dampen some frequencies and enhance others, depending on the wood and shape of the body, and tranfer those frequecies back to the strings through the bridge assembly, which alters how the string vibrates. The string vibrations are picked up by the magnetic pickup, and interpreted as voltage changes to be sent to your amp and make the sound we all love to hear.

    Taking this information into account, I believe you really have to deck the trem if you want the best possible tone. This is where guitar shop guy may have been more right than we believe. When we are talking about a floating trem, let's say a Floyd Rose, we reduce the amount of surface area for the vibration to transfer to the body. Instead of having the entire surface of the bridge plate laying on the body and transferring vibration from the strings, we have reduced it to only 4 points. The string vibrates and transfers its vibrations to the bridge plate, where the vibrations are transferred to the body by 2 pivot bolts, and through the sustain block, TREM SPRINGS, trem claw and 2 screws. The trem springs, of course, will vibrate, and create reverberation before transferring the vibrations to and from the body. This could be heard as making the signal muddy.

    If you deck the trem, the majority of the transfer of the vibrations occurs at the top of the guitar under the trem, instead of through the pivot bolts and springs, which explains why the guitar sounds better with the trem decked than floating.

    That being said, the theory would hold true whether we are talking about singles or humbuckers. The only difference being that Humbuckers will generally provide more output, and will reproduce the string vibrations at a higher volume, making the tone differences more apparent.

    Please keep in mind that I disregarded the neck for this argument, but it is just as important in the transfer of tone. Type of nut, distance from tuners to nut, break angle off the nut, and type of tuners all play a part in the tone.

    These are just my theories anyway. My theory is based mainly on a combination of my knowledge of wave propogation that I learned being a RADAR/Comm. Tech, research over many years, and personal experience after years of part-swapping and trying different things, and seeing the results. I could be totally wrong, but it's what I've come to believe.
    Last edited by nobozos; 10.11.15 at 06:07 AM.
    "Having an opinion that people disagree with doesn't make you a Douche, arguing with the people who disagree with your opinion and calling them stupid does!" -Me.

  11. The Following 2 Members Like This Post:


  12. #7
    Atomic Punk RRvh1's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.13.11
    Location
    Ontari-ari-ari-o!
    Posts
    16,442
    Favorite VH Album

    VH, 1984, 5150, F.U.C.K.
    Favorite VH Song

    A few of Daves, a few of Sams!
    Last Online

    12.17.17 @ 01:34 PM
    Likes
    6,140
    Liked 6,982 Times in 5,015 Posts


    Premium Member

    Default

    Some very good and valid points ^^^. Well said.
    If Kevin was involved in building an EVH replica with his buddy, then I'm 99.99% certain that the trem would be flush with the body, as per all of his other guitars. Or at least most of them.

    There's been tons of guys who've played humbucker equipped Strats since Eddie hit the scene, and I've never heard that kind of remark about those pickups and trem springs combo being "wrong"... Hell, Ed's made a lot of cool noises and effects while manipulating the trems springs themselves, and it sounded pretty "right" to me!!! LOL.
    "There's too many people on this basketball that's floating around the sun, who are too afraid to allow themselves to FEEL" - Edward Van Halen
    "Van Halen was never about the singer..." - a very wise fan.
    "Embrace the past. Live in the moment but keep your eyes on the future, and keep on moving forward..." - Richie Sambora

  13. The Following Member Likes This Post:


  14. #8
    Eruption AFU's Avatar
    Join Date
    06.20.00
    Location
    Rumford, R.I. USA
    Posts
    869
    Last Online

    12.17.17 @ 05:51 AM
    Likes
    208
    Liked 379 Times in 225 Posts

    Default

    My 1987 RG550 obviously has a floating trem. And that body vibrates like a tuning fork. Always has. So the string vibrations are definately flowing through the that thing. However, as a rule I feel a Floyd should be flush against the body to help transfer string vibration. Also that guitar has an annoying amount of spring noise.

    Doesn't Clapton prefer Strats with trems because it adds a natural reverb like quality?

  15. The Following Member Likes This Post:


  16. #9
    Good Enough nobozos's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.16.00
    Location
    Pekin, Il U.S.A.
    Posts
    1,752
    Last Online

    12.17.17 @ 07:24 AM
    Likes
    24
    Liked 736 Times in 349 Posts

    Default

    I'm not sure on the Clapton question. I've often wondered why he didn't just have his signature guitar made as a hard-tail if he was going to block the trem anyway. I had always assumed it was just to sell more guitars and give the buyer the option as to whether or not they wanted the trem to work.
    "Having an opinion that people disagree with doesn't make you a Douche, arguing with the people who disagree with your opinion and calling them stupid does!" -Me.

  17. The Following Member Likes This Post:


  18. #10
    5150 GilmourD's Avatar
    Join Date
    05.01.12
    Posts
    589
    Last Online

    12.17.17 @ 01:38 PM
    Likes
    161
    Liked 124 Times in 84 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Dodds View Post
    I'm travelling for work and am spending a few extra days out in San Francisco with a guitarist friend of mine -- we made a Frank replica for him last year (with a German Floyd!).

    We were looking for parts a guitar shop in San Rafael, and got to talking with the guys there and since I was involved, Ed came up. One of the guys there said he thought that the humbucker-on-a-Strat thing was all wrong because the trem springs interact with the pickup and muddy up or at least compromise the sound.

    I stopped short of telling him he was nucking futs, but -- I'm not too sure about that claim. I did a brief web search and found only a few mentions of this.

    What do you guys think?

    KBD3

  19. The Following Member Likes This Post:


  20. #11
    Atomic Punk fast98dodge's Avatar
    Join Date
    03.24.04
    Age
    43
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    8,212
    Favorite VH Album

    Van Halen II
    Last Online

    08.07.17 @ 08:14 PM
    Likes
    331
    Liked 313 Times in 149 Posts


    Donor

    Default

    The same guys who bitch about the tone of Floyd equipped guitars are the same ones who swear that a poly finished guitar doesn't sound as good as a nitro finished guitar...
    Jet City Super Stealth
    Marshall 50th Anniversary JCM-1H and Class 5 Combo
    Austin Speaker Works KTS-60

  21. The Following Member Likes This Post:


  22. #12
    Sinner's Swing!
    Join Date
    11.26.10
    Age
    46
    Posts
    3,353
    Last Online

    11.25.17 @ 09:06 AM
    Likes
    1,679
    Liked 1,374 Times in 803 Posts

    Default

    Hmmm....Y'know, I'm sure they do have some effect, but I've never considered it in terms of interaction with a humbucker specifically. Seems like a pretty weird idea to me. You build or buy a guitar to suit your needs, and hopefully the components you choose do what you ask of them.
    Bottom line, there's a million different humbucker designs out there that compensate for any number of deficiencies you might encounter with a particular combination of components, so it would be a pretty moot point...at least to me. You'd never notice the springs I wouldn't think.
    Except spring noise as mentioned..which you get on SC's as well.

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. July 22 - Bonner Springs KS Roll Call!
    By FAN4EVER in forum 2015 Van Halen Tour
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 07.22.15, 11:04 AM
  2. What to do in Palm Springs?
    By Jes Halen in forum VH Fans Meeting Place (Non-Music)
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01.25.10, 02:06 AM
  3. Strings, springs, cleaning the neck
    By Jax951 in forum Guitar Room
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04.04.05, 06:04 PM
  4. springs
    By Unchained Wolfie in forum Guitar Room
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 07.24.02, 06:59 PM
  5. Don't think VH will have great impact
    By Nature Boy in forum Main VH Discussion
    Replies: 53
    Last Post: 09.03.00, 07:20 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •