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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
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    12.11.17 @ 04:37 PM
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    Default 14,000 ABANDONED WIND TURBINES LITTER THE UNITED STATES



    The towering symbols of a fading religion, over 14,000 wind turbines, abandoned, rusting, slowly decaying. When it is time to clean up after a failed idea, no green environmentalists are to be found. Wind was free, natural, harnessing Earth’s bounty for the benefit of all mankind, sounded like a good idea. Wind turbines, like solar panels, break down. They produce less energy before they break down than the energy it took to make them. The wind does not blow all the time, or even most of the time. When it is not blowing, they require full-time backup from conventional power plants.

    Without government subsidy, they are unaffordable. With governments facing financial troubles, the subsidies are unaffordable. It was a nice dream, a very expensive dream, but it didn’t work.

    California had the “big three” of wind farm locations — Altamont Pass, Tehachapi, and San Gorgonio, considered the world’s best wind sites. California’s wind farms, almost 80% of the world’s wind generation capacity ceased to generate even more quickly than Kamaoa Wind Farm in Hawaii. There are five other abandoned wind farms in Hawaii. When they are abandoned, getting the turbines removed is a major problem. They are highly unsightly, and they are huge, and that’s a lot of material to get rid of.

    Unfortunately the same areas that are good for siting wind farms are a natural pass for migrating birds. Altamont’s turbines have been shut down four months out of every year for migrating birds after environmentalists filed suit. According to the Golden Gate Audubon Society 75-110 Golden Eagles, 380 Burrowing Owls, 300 Red-Tailed Hawks and 333 American Kestrels are killed by the turbines every year. An Alameda County Community Development Agency study points to 10,000 annual bird deaths from Altamont wind turbines. The Audubon Society makes up numbers like the EPA, but there’s a reason why they call them bird Cuisinarts.

    Palm Springs has enacted an ordinance requiring their removal from San Gorgonio Pass, but unless something else changes abandoned turbines will remain a rotting eyesores, or the taxpayers who have already paid through the nose for overpriced energy and crony-capitalist tax scams will have to foot the bill for their removal.

    President Obama’s offshore wind farms will be far more expensive than those sited in California’s ideal wind locations. Salt water is far more damaging than sun and rain, and offshore turbines don’t last as long. But nice tax scams for his crony-capitalist backers will work well as long as he can blame it all on saving the planer.

    https://americanelephant.wordpress.c...united-states/
    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.” -- Gen. George S. Patton

  2. #2
    Baluchitherium
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    A great source of energy we should be tapping into.

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  4. #3
    Eruption
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    10.26.17 @ 05:29 PM
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    I saw the Altamont Pass wind farm a couple weeks ago when I was on a business trip to San Francisco. I took a day trip to Yosemite National Park and passed the wind turbines. About half of the turbines were turning at the time.

    There is another large wind farm in Indiana, about halfway between Indianapolis and Chicago.

  5. #4
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    12.12.17 @ 04:57 PM
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    The dirty little secret about wind and solar energy is that you still need a fossil fuel plant running at low capacity even when using wind and solar. The power headed to our electricity grids must be consistent. Too much power = brown outs; too little power = brown outs. Because wind and solar are intermittent--wind is inconsistent and cloud cover can greatly reduce the output of a solar plant, utility companies must have a fossil fuel plant running at low capacity, ready to go when there is power reduction.

    Not only are these forms of energy more expensive at the moment, but they don't replace fossil fuel plants.

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  7. #5
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
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    12.12.17 @ 02:48 PM
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    We visit the in laws in Chicago on a regular basis and pass through a giant wind farm around Bloomington Normal. It's cool to see them all running since there is nothing worth looking at between Chicago and St. Louis, but I always wonder about the economics of it. I keep hearing that wind energy prices are coming down, but I'm wondering how much of that is due to government subsidy vs technological advancements/economies of scale.
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

  8. #6
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsbll4 View Post
    We visit the in laws in Chicago on a regular basis and pass through a giant wind farm around Bloomington Normal. It's cool to see them all running since there is nothing worth looking at between Chicago and St. Louis, but I always wonder about the economics of it. I keep hearing that wind energy prices are coming down, but I'm wondering how much of that is due to government subsidy vs technological advancements/economies of scale.
    Don't forget that we still can't really store wind energy very well. My wife, before working for Edison, was an engineer for a company that built two concentrated solar power plants nearby. One of them was the first solar power plant to make power for 24-hours straight. They store heat in salt and can extract that heat when the sun goes down. But batteries aren't quite there yet, and with wind it's even harder.

    This is one of those things where, inexplicably, you're not allowed to argue the economics of it. It's like climate change. Obama can put huge new regulations on power plants, and at significant economic impact it will help cool the Earth by 0.015 degrees by the year 2100.

    Conversely, you have someone like Bjorn Lomborg who is saying look, cities where people live are much hotter than the areas surrounding them because they are drier, have systems in place specifically to remove water. Two inexpensive things could cool cities by 10 degrees Celsius--plant more trees and have more water around them, and paint more things white.

    Of course, that's an economically sensible way to deal with warming, not a way of trying to prevent it, so it's a non-starter. Of course, if we fall on our own economic swords to try and prevent warming, what makes us think China and India will follow suit?

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  10. #7
    Baluchitherium Harpospoke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    Conversely, you have someone like Bjorn Lomborg who is saying look, cities where people live are much hotter than the areas surrounding them because they are drier, have systems in place specifically to remove water. Two inexpensive things could cool cities by 10 degrees Celsius--plant more trees and have more water around them, and paint more things white.
    Lomborg comes under attack a lot...and he's liberal! But the problem is, he is logical. He doesn't think with emotion. And since he deviates slightly from the mantra "We must get rid of fossil fuels and use solar and wind!"...that makes him an outcast.

    It's like bringing up the most logical way to get off fossil fuels...nuclear energy. Any environmentalist who endorses nuclear is ostracized. The religion must be followed to the letter or you are a heretic. We should have been transferred over to nuclear decades ago, but the same activists who now claim fossil fuels will doom us are the reason nuclear was demonized in the first place. Now they get to complain about a problem they created. That's what happens when you think with emotion.
    Quote Originally Posted by lover of machines
    Of course, that's an economically sensible way to deal with warming, not a way of trying to prevent it, so it's a non-starter. Of course, if we fall on our own economic swords to try and prevent warming, what makes us think China and India will follow suit?
    They won't...and they shouldn't. The douche bags in their comfortable chairs in the western nations love to talk about how the world needs to stop having cheap energy. ...Easy to say when your society has already made it into prosperity. I don't blame China and India one bit for ignoring that. They should be able to join the party too. The human race has lived in abject misery most of its existence....time to leave that behind.

    If wind and solar were really the cheaper option as some claim, China and India would go that way instead...but they won't because that claim is not true. They'll throw up a few windmills for politics, but meanwhile they'll build hundreds of coal plants.

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  12. #8
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpospoke View Post
    Lomborg comes under attack a lot...and he's liberal! But the problem is, he is logical. He doesn't think with emotion. And since he deviates slightly from the mantra "We must get rid of fossil fuels and use solar and wind!"...that makes him an outcast.

    It's like bringing up the most logical way to get off fossil fuels...nuclear energy. Any environmentalist who endorses nuclear is ostracized. The religion must be followed to the letter or you are a heretic. We should have been transferred over to nuclear decades ago, but the same activists who now claim fossil fuels will doom us are the reason nuclear was demonized in the first place. Now they get to complain about a problem they created. That's what happens when you think with emotion.

    They won't...and they shouldn't. The douche bags in their comfortable chairs in the western nations love to talk about how the world needs to stop having cheap energy. ...Easy to say when your society has already made it into prosperity. I don't blame China and India one bit for ignoring that. They should be able to join the party too. The human race has lived in abject misery most of its existence....time to leave that behind.

    If wind and solar were really the cheaper option as some claim, China and India would go that way instead...but they won't because that claim is not true. They'll throw up a few windmills for politics, but meanwhile they'll build hundreds of coal plants.
    Totally agree. The easiest way to keep poor people poor is to increase the cost of energy. But that makes me an asshole. Have you seen Michael Crichton's theory on the religion of environmentalism?

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    I fucking hate these wind farms and god damn wind turbines. I live where we once had beautiful mesas and outstanding views on ro-ad trips. Not now. Had two companies wanting to procure some of my families land for future wind rights. 50 large if we singed for them to someday put these shitty things on the land. Fuck that! So far so good. But I don't really get final say so. Now for those that think I'm an idiot. Thinks about this. Think about being able to look as far as you can see and not see anything but mesquite trees and scrub and birds flying and sunsets and hear nature n shit. Not 25 or more wind turbines fucking up your view and basically making it look like a forest of metal trees. But I'm the asshole. Out.
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  15. #10
    Baluchitherium Harpospoke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    Totally agree. The easiest way to keep poor people poor is to increase the cost of energy. But that makes me an asshole. Have you seen Michael Crichton's theory on the religion of environmentalism?
    I haven't read it specifically, but that's always been my view of it. "The world is doomed because of man's sins"....same message we've heard for centuries. As always, everything we do is bad....especially if those actions make us happy or give us pleasure. That MUST be a sin, right? It also feeds our egos to think we are the most important species on this planet. Zebras and wolves can't doom the planet after all....only people are that important.

    Conventional religion started losing steam in the 50s and a lot of people need religion in their life. Cue the rise of environmentalism. I normally don't have any problem with religion even though I don't subscribe to any of it....but there are always a few extremists in religion who insist that the world believe what they believe. ...And that's when it can affect me. Then I have a problem with it. Believe anything you want....it's hard to get through life and be happy for some people. But leave me out of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by track 5 View Post
    I fucking hate these wind farms and god damn wind turbines. I live where we once had beautiful mesas and outstanding views on ro-ad trips. Not now. Had two companies wanting to procure some of my families land for future wind rights. 50 large if we singed for them to someday put these shitty things on the land. Fuck that! So far so good. But I don't really get final say so. Now for those that think I'm an idiot. Thinks about this. Think about being able to look as far as you can see and not see anything but mesquite trees and scrub and birds flying and sunsets and hear nature n shit. Not 25 or more wind turbines fucking up your view and basically making it look like a forest of metal trees. But I'm the asshole. Out.
    Some things in life are not for sale. You figured that out before you were gasping for breath on your deathbed so good for you. 50 grand in the bank won't mean a thing to you as you look back on your life...but that breathtaking view will mean everything.

  16. #11
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpospoke View Post
    I haven't read it specifically, but that's always been my view of it. "The world is doomed because of man's sins"....same message we've heard for centuries. As always, everything we do is bad....especially if those actions make us happy or give us pleasure. That MUST be a sin, right? It also feeds our egos to think we are the most important species on this planet. Zebras and wolves can't doom the planet after all....only people are that important.

    Conventional religion started losing steam in the 50s and a lot of people need religion in their life. Cue the rise of environmentalism. I normally don't have any problem with religion even though I don't subscribe to any of it....but there are always a few extremists in religion who insist that the world believe what they believe. ...And that's when it can affect me. Then I have a problem with it. Believe anything you want....it's hard to get through life and be happy for some people. But leave me out of it.



    Some things in life are not for sale. You figured that out before you were gasping for breath on your deathbed so good for you. 50 grand in the bank won't mean a thing to you as you look back on your life...but that breathtaking view will mean everything.

 

 

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