Follow us on...
Follow us on Twitter Follow us on Facebook Watch us on YouTube
Register
Page 1 of 7 1234 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 101
  1. #1
    Atomic Punk bklynboy68's Avatar
    Join Date
    01.10.12
    Posts
    18,732
    Favorite VH Album

    The Magnificent 7
    Last Online

    12.11.17 @ 05:58 PM
    Likes
    12,866
    Liked 11,728 Times in 6,498 Posts


    Premium Member

    Default The Confederate Battle Flag

    Don’t Tear Down the Confederate Battle Flag

    by David French

    June 19, 2015



    Like many Southern boys, I grew up with two flags hanging in my room — an American flag and a Confederate battle flag. The American flag was enormous, taking up much of one wall. It was the “1776” flag, with 13 stars in a circle in the field of blue. My grandmother bought it for me on the bicentennial, and for years it was a treasured possession.

    The flag took on a special meaning later in life, when I learned more of a family history that included service with General Washington, suffering at Valley Forge. The Confederate battle flag was much smaller, and it hung over my bookshelf. We bought it at the Shiloh battlefield in Tennessee, where one of my Confederate ancestors fought and where Albert Sidney Johnston died — the general that many considered the great hope of the Confederate Army in the West. My Confederate forefathers went on to fight at Vicksburg, at the battles of Franklin and Nashville, and in countless skirmishes across Tennessee and Mississippi.

    I grew up looking at old family pictures, including men who still wore their Confederate uniform for formal portraits — long after the war had ended. Like many Southern families’, my family’s military story didn’t end with the Civil War — it continued on to World War I, the European theater in World War II, the Cuban Missile Crisis, and then to my own recent deployment during the Surge in Iraq. The martial history of our family is inseparable from the family story, and it includes men in gray. So I’ve followed this most recent round of debate over the Confederate battle flag with perhaps greater than normal interest.

    In the immediate aftermath of mass shootings, there is always a demand to “do something.” Always, that demand involves gun control — typically, gun-control measures that wouldn’t have actually stopped the shooting in question. But often there’s something more. In the aftermath of the Gabby Giffords shooting, the Left demanded “civility” — despite zero evidence that the barking-mad perpetrator was motivated by any form of political discourse. Now the demand is to remove the Confederate battle flag from a Confederate memorial in South Carolina (and presumably elsewhere). The Atlantic’s Ta-Nehisi Coates, with characteristic vehemence, says, “Take down the flag. Take it down now.” His call — and others — have resonated around the web.

    There’s a disturbing habit on the Left of trying to find the position that renders one especially virtuous in their identity politics culture — regardless of its real-world impact — and then sneering from that high ground at all who dissent. But that’s certainly not everyone’s motive, and it’s certainly not the motive of those calling for the flag’s removal at National Review.

    It’s simply undeniable that the Confederate battle flag is a painful symbol to our African-American fellow citizens, especially given its recent history as a chosen totem of segregationists. So it’s critical to respond to the argument in good faith. And just as the history of the Civil War is personal to me, so is America’s present racial reality. As I’ve mentioned before, my youngest daughter is quite literally African-American (born in Ethiopia and now as American as apple pie), and when she’s a little bit older, we’ll no doubt have many tough conversations about history and race.

    If the goal of our shared civic experience was the avoidance of pain, then we’d take down that flag. But that’s of course not the goal. Rather, we use history to understand our nation in all its complexity — acknowledging uncomfortable realities and learning difficult truths. For white southerners — especially those with deep roots in the South — those difficult truths are presented front and center throughout our lives. Yes, the South seceded in large part to preserve slavery. Yes, had the South prevailed, slavery not only would have been preserved for the indefinite future, it may have even spread to new nations and territories. And no, while some southerners were kinder than others, there was nothing “humane” about the fundamental institution of slavery itself. As Coates and others have often and eloquently explained, it was a system built on plunder and pain.

    But there are other difficult truths. Among them, when the war began, it was not explicitly a war to end slavery. Indeed, had the Union quickly accomplished its war aims, slavery would have endured, at least for a time. When hundreds of thousands of southern men took up arms (most of them non-slave-owning), many of them fought with the explicit belief that they were standing in the shoes of the Founding Fathers, men who’d exercised their own right of self-determination to separate from the mother Country. Others simply saw an invading army marching into their state — into their towns and across their farms — and chose to resist. And no one can doubt their valor. Both sides displayed breathtaking courage, but the South poured itself into the fight to an extent the modern American mind simply can’t comprehend. If you extrapolated Southern losses into our current American population, the war would cost the lives of a staggering 9 million men, with at least an equivalent number injured. To understand the impact of that human loss, I’d urge you to read Harvard president Drew Gilpin Faust’s Republic of Suffering — a book that explores the psychological impact of omnipresent, mass-scale death on southern culture. Those men fought against a larger, better-supplied force, yet — under some of history’s more brilliant military commanders — were arguably a few better-timed attacks away from prevailing in America’s deadliest conflict. Then, the defeated survivors came home to the consequences of total war. Large sections of the South were simply devastated — crops burned, homes burned, and livestock slaughtered or scattered. Entire cities lay in ruin.

    The South had to rebuild — under military occupation — and it had to rebuild more than just its physical infrastructure. It had to reimagine itself. It ultimately did so for good and ill. The worst of that new South was obvious: the gradually tightening grip of a new and different era of racial oppression, one that culminated in Jim Crow, lynching, and systematic segregation. This is the side of history that is now taught clearly and unflinchingly — and should be taught. But that wasn’t the whole story, not by any means. The region also rebuilt by honoring its war dead and extolling a culture of military valor. Through this reverence for valor, the defeated South, ironically enough, soon supplied the newly reunified nation with many of its greatest warriors — men who were indispensable in preserving our democracy against the existential threats of fascism and communism. To this day, the South supplies more than its fair share of soldiers, men and women who lay down their lives to protect us from the deadly threat of jihad.

    It is telling that the South’s chosen, enduring symbol of the Confederacy wasn’t the flag of the Confederate States of America — the slave state itself — but the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia, Robert E. Lee’s army. Lee was the reluctant Confederate, the brilliant commander, the man who called slavery a “moral and political evil,” and the architect — by his example — of much of the reconciliation between North and South. His virtue grew in the retelling — and modern historians still argue about his true character — but the symbolism was clear. If the South was to rebuild, it would rebuild under Lee’s banner. Since that time, the battle flag has grown to mean many things, including evil things. Flying it as a symbol of white racial supremacy is undeniably vile, and any official use of the flag for that purpose should end, immediately. Flying it over monuments to Confederate war dead is simply history. States should no more remove a Confederate battle flag from a Confederate memorial than they should chisel away the words on the granite or bulldoze the memorials themselves. I no longer have a battle flag at my house. The American flag flies proudly from (by far) the tallest flagpole in the neighborhood — a gift from my father-in-law, raised when I was deployed. But we have a room in our home that honors my family’s history of service. On one side of a framed picture from my own time in Iraq is a painting from the Revolutionary War, on the other side is a picture tracing the history of the Confederate Army in the Civil War. It’s all a part of the complicated, messy picture of who I am — of who we are. Removing the Confederate flag from Confederate memorials doesn’t change that history, it merely helps shroud it in ignorance. The flag should stay.







    http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...hooting-debate
     "He has a swaggering retro machismo that will give hives to the Steinem cabal" -Camille Paglia on Donald Trump

    "Make way for the bad guy"- Tony Montana

    'This hamburger don't need no helper"- David Lee Roth

    "I wish Bon Jovi would've given me a call before he recorded all of his hits, because the lyrics would've been smarter, the melodies would've been much more smashing, and they would've sold a lot fewer records." -David Lee Roth

    "My beef is people thinking Bon Jovi is good cuz they sold lots of records to housewives." -tango

    "But being number one doesn’t really mean jack fuck all. We sold twice as many records as other records that year (1984) that landed in the Number One position." ~Eddie Van Halen

  2. #2
    Atomic Punk japeape's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.05.15
    Posts
    7,853
    Last Online

    12.11.17 @ 04:57 PM
    Likes
    5,595
    Liked 7,612 Times in 3,991 Posts

    Default

    Whatever happened to that Rachel woman, that pretended to be African American?

    She was like the top story for two weeks, but now she's completely faded into oblivion.

  3. #3
    Hang 'Em High sickman's Avatar
    Join Date
    03.13.04
    Posts
    6,169
    Favorite VH Album

    Complete Zero
    Favorite VH Song

    Lets Get Rockin
    Last Online

    12.11.17 @ 05:49 PM
    Likes
    547
    Liked 1,861 Times in 730 Posts


    Donor

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by japeape View Post
    Whatever happened to that Rachel woman, that pretended to be African American?

    She was like the top story for two weeks, but now she's completely faded into oblivion.
    The confederate flag happened. The racial tables were turned.
    I used to jog but the ice cubes kept falling out of my glass.

  4. #4
    Atomic Punk
    Join Date
    11.12.03
    Posts
    17,322
    Favorite VH Album

    1978-1996
    Favorite VH Song

    1978-1996
    Last Online

    12.23.16 @ 10:32 AM
    Likes
    4,364
    Liked 2,068 Times in 1,102 Posts


    Donor

    Default

    Where is Rachel? Same place this flag story will be as soon as the next knee jerk mountain out of a molehill story hits the "news"

  5. #5
    ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ Number 47's Avatar
    Join Date
    10.08.06
    Posts
    29,792
    Last Online

    12.11.17 @ 02:58 PM
    Likes
    1,873
    Liked 6,815 Times in 3,564 Posts


    Premium Member

    Default

    That first post is an excellent read, then I read the second post and am like...

  6. #6
    Sinner's Swing! evhintexas's Avatar
    Join Date
    11.12.11
    Age
    49
    Location
    Tx
    Posts
    3,039
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning
    Favorite VH Song

    Push comes to shove
    Last Online

    12.09.17 @ 03:43 PM
    Likes
    1,425
    Liked 1,106 Times in 675 Posts


    Premium Member

    Donor

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by japeape View Post
    Whatever happened to that Rachel woman, that pretended to be African American?

    She was like the top story for two weeks, but now she's completely faded into oblivion.
    Piss on her
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    “A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government.”

  7. #7
    ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ Number 47's Avatar
    Join Date
    10.08.06
    Posts
    29,792
    Last Online

    12.11.17 @ 02:58 PM
    Likes
    1,873
    Liked 6,815 Times in 3,564 Posts


    Premium Member

    Default


  8. #8
    Sinner's Swing! mikehunt5150's Avatar
    Join Date
    08.19.10
    Location
    baltimore
    Posts
    2,935
    Favorite VH Album

    all
    Favorite VH Song

    simple rhyme
    Last Online

    12.11.17 @ 04:39 PM
    Likes
    6,046
    Liked 1,201 Times in 531 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by japeape View Post
    Whatever happened to that Rachel woman, that pretended to be African American?

    She was like the top story for two weeks, but now she's completely faded into oblivion.


    GET READY....
    WHAT IS UNDERSTOOD NEED NOT BE DISCUSSED

  9. The Following 3 Members Like This Post:


  10. #9
    ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ Number 47's Avatar
    Join Date
    10.08.06
    Posts
    29,792
    Last Online

    12.11.17 @ 02:58 PM
    Likes
    1,873
    Liked 6,815 Times in 3,564 Posts


    Premium Member

    Default

    Hopeless.

  11. The Following 2 Members Like This Post:


  12. #10
    Forum Frontman fudd's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.22.08
    Age
    38
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    14,254
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair warning, 5150
    Favorite VH Song

    HAIL, love walks in, 5150
    Last Online

    @
    Likes
    1,316
    Liked 6,297 Times in 3,167 Posts


    Premium Member

    Donor

    Default

    I'm so goddamn tired of this being an issue. It's only an issue when people choose to see the negative it had. Shit by that logic the American flag is just as offensive. If not more.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  13. #11
    Atomic Punk rocknblues81's Avatar
    Join Date
    10.11.09
    Posts
    10,503
    Last Online

    12.11.17 @ 06:29 PM
    Likes
    558
    Liked 1,471 Times in 1,002 Posts


    Premium Member

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fuddman5150 View Post
    I'm so goddamn tired of this being an issue. It's only an issue when people choose to see the negative it had. Shit by that logic the American flag is just as offensive. If not more.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    What can you say about people that are intimidated by a piece of cloth?

    The whole thing has just fired up rednecks more down here in GA. I added one person to my friends list that had the flag and then I was hit with like 30 friend request in a really short period of time.

    People are protesting at Wal-Mart and other places.

    Oh, and some are wanting to get rid of the American flag also.
    Michael Caine on Jaws: The Revenge:

    "I have never seen it, but by all accounts it is terrible. However, I have seen the house that it built and it is terrific."

    Samuel Johnson 1775 : “Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel”

    "McDonalds is The Antichrist" - Bill Hicks

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSH6ofHbeUw

  14. #12
    Atomic Punk
    Join Date
    11.12.03
    Posts
    17,322
    Favorite VH Album

    1978-1996
    Favorite VH Song

    1978-1996
    Last Online

    12.23.16 @ 10:32 AM
    Likes
    4,364
    Liked 2,068 Times in 1,102 Posts


    Donor

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rocknblues81 View Post
    What can you say about people that are intimidated by a piece of cloth?

    The whole thing has just fired up rednecks more down here in GA. I added one person to my friends list that had the flag and then I was hit with like 30 friend request in a really short period of time.

    People are protesting at Wal-Mart and other places.

    Oh, and some are wanting to get rid of the American flag also.

    So is it an overreaction to a piece of cloth or is it more than that? (for both sides of the debate)

    If it's nothing more than a piece of cloth, then why is anyone fired up in GA?

    If it's more than just a piece of cloth, then maybe there's a reason people are offended or intimidated by it?

    I can see both sides, they both have some valid points

    Personally, if the government displays are voted on and the people want the flag down, so be it. But for private property, the gov should stay out of it and let people fly whatever they want. Seems easy enough

  15. #13
    Forum Frontman fudd's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.22.08
    Age
    38
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    14,254
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair warning, 5150
    Favorite VH Song

    HAIL, love walks in, 5150
    Last Online

    @
    Likes
    1,316
    Liked 6,297 Times in 3,167 Posts


    Premium Member

    Donor

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenpaw View Post
    So is it an overreaction to a piece of cloth or is it more than that? (for both sides of the debate)

    If it's nothing more than a piece of cloth, then why is anyone fired up in GA?

    If it's more than just a piece of cloth, then maybe there's a reason people are offended or intimidated by it?

    I can see both sides, they both have some valid points

    Personally, if the government displays are voted on and the people want the flag down, so be it. But for private property, the gov should stay out of it and let people fly whatever they want. Seems easy enough
    Because right or wrong it's a part of our heritage. Who the fuck is anyone to say that's wrong? It hasn't been a big deal for 160 years or so until some fucking liberal twat waffle has their "feelings" hurt by it. Last I checked(for the time being), we still live in America. First amendment and all that shit.

    I'm gonna fly mine now just to piss people off. If a person wants to take it down they better be wearing a bulletproof vest.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  16. The Following 2 Members Like This Post:


  17. #14
    Atomic Punk hain23x's Avatar
    Join Date
    01.04.00
    Location
    way down yonder in Louisville
    Posts
    7,791
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning
    Favorite VH Song

    Mean Street
    Last Online

    12.11.17 @ 03:59 PM
    Likes
    36
    Liked 555 Times in 251 Posts

    Default

    I'm still trying to find the positive side of "it's part of our heritage". The first time around it was part of a flag that was flown by traitors because they wanted to keep slaves and the 2nd time it was flown by assholes that wanted to keep blacks out of schools.

    Is that the "proud of our heritage" part? Because that's exactly what happened and no spin on that is going to rewrite that truth
    Eat Us and Smile!

  18. The Following 3 Members Like This Post:


  19. #15
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.18.03
    Age
    34
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    8,622
    Favorite VH Album

    Van Halen/ADKOT
    Favorite VH Song

    Hot For Teacher
    Last Online

    12.11.17 @ 01:56 PM
    Likes
    565
    Liked 2,210 Times in 1,114 Posts


    Premium Member

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hain23x View Post
    I'm still trying to find the positive side of "it's part of our heritage". The first time around it was part of a flag that was flown by traitors because they wanted to keep slaves and the 2nd time it was flown by assholes that wanted to keep blacks out of schools.

    Is that the "proud of our heritage" part? Because that's exactly what happened and no spin on that is going to rewrite that truth
    I think the article does a pretty good job of explaining it. It's okay to disagree with it, though.

    The Stars and Stripes was the rally flag for a nation of slavery and was also used at KKK rallies, so I think we should also be concerned with what "heritage" the original 13 star banner represents. You know what I mean?

    In the end this is a total red herring anyway.
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

  20. The Following Member Likes This Post:


 

 

Similar Threads

  1. Confederate Flag Hags
    By Hot Sauce in forum Political Underground
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: 08.08.16, 11:50 AM
  2. Lynyrd Skynyrd denouncing the confederate flag?
    By rocknblues81 in forum VH Fans Meeting Place (Non-Music)
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 09.26.12, 10:34 AM
  3. Colorado School Comes Under Fire for Hanging Saudi Flag Higher Than American Flag
    By voivod in forum VH Fans Meeting Place (Non-Music)
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 09.08.11, 01:57 PM
  4. Confederate Flag Les Paul
    By DivebombInc in forum Guitar Room
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 12.05.08, 01:34 PM
  5. Battle at Kruger (Lions/Buffalo/Crocs do battle)
    By Dennis in forum VH Fans Meeting Place (Non-Music)
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 06.04.07, 02:42 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •