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  1. #28876
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    Just reading an article on Fortune.com, and the author doesn't know the difference between Michael Flynn and John Kelly.

    Nice.
    Taylor Swift is nice to look at. Adele can sing.

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  2. #28877
    Atomic Punk bklynboy68's Avatar
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    #NeverTrump on Jerusalem, Embassy Decision: ‘Good for Trump’

    6 Dec 2017




    The remnants of the #NeverTrump movement, made up of conservatives who swore never to support Donald Trump for president, generally acknowledged that Trump had done something special on Wednesday when he recognized Jerusalem as Israel’s capital and directed the State Department to begin moving the embassy there.
    Other Trump achievements, such as the nomination of Neil Gorsuch to fill the seat left vacant by the death of Antonin Scalia, could arguably have been made by other Republican candidates. But there are few others — and perhaps none — who would have dared to defy the foreign policy establishment, the media, the threats of terror, and the chorus of international criticism to fulfill a campaign promise broken by predecessors from both parties.

    Trump’s decision is in a category of its own, and most of Trump’s passionate NeverTrump critics could not ignore it.

    Most effusive of all was former Breitbart News editor Ben Shapiro, whose website had all but called Trump anti-Israel during the 2016 campaign, declared that Trump’s decision on Jerusalem was an act of “political bravery” and “moral courage” in an appearance on Fox News.

    National Review’s Jonah Goldberg paused from his customary recitations of Trump’s failures in office to tweet: “Good for Trump moving the embassy to Jerusalem.”


    Bethany Shondark Mandel, one of Trump’s (and Breitbart’s) most incorrigible critics, declared the #NeverTrump movement dead last month and tweeted proudly Wednesday: “Americans voted for Donald Trump precisely because he won’t deny basic geopolitical facts because terrorists tell him not to.”


    Erick Erickson expressed similar sentiments in an op-ed for Fox News titled: “Jerusalem is why Trump’s in the White House.” In it, Erickson said:


    President Trump is committing the most grievance “sin” any politician in Washington can commit. He is walking the walk instead of just talking the talk. This is the behavior that is responsible for his election.


    The American people have become deeply cynical about American politics and deeply skeptical of political promises.

    They took a radical chance by voting for Donald Trump and, where he can, they are seeing him keep promises other politicians made and never kept.

    The reaction of Washington’s elite will only prove to Americans that the voters were right all along about the liars inside the Beltway.

    That, in turn, will probably help re-elect the president in 2020.



    Commentary‘s John Podhoretz, who has viciously attacked not only Trump but anyone supporting him, praised the president in a column at the New York Post:

    “This is nothing more or less than a recognition of reality,” President Trump said in announcing America’s recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. Never have truer words been spoken, and they were delivered in the best speech Trump has ever given.

    What Trump did was stunning. He could just have signed the waiver of the law passed in 1995 compelling the executive branch to move America’s embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. He did it six months ago, just like his three immediate predecessors did every six months since 1996. Or he could have not signed the waiver and simply said he was going to start the process of building the new embassy.

    Instead, he called the international community’s seven-decade bluff and ended a delusion about the future that has prevented Palestinians from seeing the world and their own geopolitical situation clearly. It is a bold shift.



    David French of National Review — a publication so determined to stop Trump that it published an entire issue devoted to the cause — called Trump’s decision “a blow against international anti-Semitism.” French, who had actually contemplated running against Trump as a third-party spoiler candidate in 2016, declared Wednesday:


    President Trump’s decision to formally recognize that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel and to announce plans to move America’s embassy to the seat of Israel’s government is one of the best, most moral, and important decisions of his young administration. On this issue, he is demonstrating greater resolve than Republican and Democratic presidents before him, and he is defying some of the worst people in the world.


    The shift within #NeverTrump might charitably be described as a form of intellectual integrity, in that its members can concede when Trump does something right.

    However, few have accounted for the fact that had Hillary Clinton won the election — as many expected, and some even hoped — there is no way the U.S. would have recognized Jerusalem as Israel’s capital. Quite the opposite: Clinton would have continued Obama’s lame-duck, absurd policy of attacking the very Jewish presence in the Old City of Jerusalem as a flagrant violation of international law.



    Not all #NeverTrump pundits were prepared to celebrate what Trump had done. Jen Rubin of the Washington Post spent much of the day commenting on Robert Mueller (for) and Roy Moore (against), and was nonplussed about the news about Jerusalem: “The move strikes me as neither cause for wild celebration nor for apocalyptic talk.”


    Others, like Max Boot, likewise downplayed the news about Jerusalem in favor of tidbits about Michael Flynn and Russia.


    Republican strategist Rick Wilson, one of the the most vulgar of Trump’s antagonists, tweeted a video of Trump’s White House address that suggested the president was “slurring words.” But about Jerusalem itself: nothing.


    Bill Kristol, normally a vocal supporter of Israel, was also silent. He found time to tweet from Japan that “Trump is a demagogue” (Tuesday), and “Neither of our two political parties remotely resembles a serious and responsible governing party” (Wednesday), but said nothing about Trump’s decision on Jerusalem and the Israel embassy.


    For some, perhaps, the posture of opposing Trump is more important than the consequences of his presidency..





    http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...ve-good-trump/
    Last edited by bklynboy68; 12.07.17 at 06:14 AM.
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  3. #28878
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    GE is cutting 12,000 jobs

    The company says the job cuts will mostly be outside the United States. The power division's headcount will be reduced about 18%. About 295,000 people worked for GE overall at the end of last year, but the company has cut jobs and costs throughout this year. It hopes to reduce costs by $1 billion next year.

    http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/07/news...uts/index.html



    General Electric to cut 12,000 jobs in power division

    The company said coal and gas product sales are down because of "overcapacity," lower usage, growth in renewable energy and other factors.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...uts/929888001/
    Last edited by Number 47; 12.07.17 at 06:28 AM.

  4. #28879
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bklynboy68 View Post
    #NeverTrump on Jerusalem, Embassy Decision: ‘Good for Trump’

    6 Dec 2017




    The remnants of the #NeverTrump movement, made up of conservatives who swore never to support Donald Trump for president, generally acknowledged that Trump had done something special on Wednesday when he recognized Jerusalem as Israel’s capital and directed the State Department to begin moving the embassy there.
    Other Trump achievements, such as the nomination of Neil Gorsuch to fill the seat left vacant by the death of Antonin Scalia, could arguably have been made by other Republican candidates. But there are few others — and perhaps none — who would have dared to defy the foreign policy establishment, the media, the threats of terror, and the chorus of international criticism to fulfill a campaign promise broken by predecessors from both parties.

    Trump’s decision is in a category of its own, and most of Trump’s passionate NeverTrump critics could not ignore it.

    Most effusive of all was former Breitbart News editor Ben Shapiro, whose website had all but called Trump anti-Israel during the 2016 campaign, declared that Trump’s decision on Jerusalem was an act of “political bravery” and “moral courage” in an appearance on Fox News.

    National Review’s Jonah Goldberg paused from his customary recitations of Trump’s failures in office to tweet: “Good for Trump moving the embassy to Jerusalem.”


    Bethany Shondark Mandel, one of Trump’s (and Breitbart’s) most incorrigible critics, declared the #NeverTrump movement dead last month and tweeted proudly Wednesday: “Americans voted for Donald Trump precisely because he won’t deny basic geopolitical facts because terrorists tell him not to.”


    Erick Erickson expressed similar sentiments in an op-ed for Fox News titled: “Jerusalem is why Trump’s in the White House.” In it, Erickson said:


    President Trump is committing the most grievance “sin” any politician in Washington can commit. He is walking the walk instead of just talking the talk. This is the behavior that is responsible for his election.


    The American people have become deeply cynical about American politics and deeply skeptical of political promises.

    They took a radical chance by voting for Donald Trump and, where he can, they are seeing him keep promises other politicians made and never kept.

    The reaction of Washington’s elite will only prove to Americans that the voters were right all along about the liars inside the Beltway.

    That, in turn, will probably help re-elect the president in 2020.



    Commentary‘s John Podhoretz, who has viciously attacked not only Trump but anyone supporting him, praised the president in a column at the New York Post:

    “This is nothing more or less than a recognition of reality,” President Trump said in announcing America’s recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. Never have truer words been spoken, and they were delivered in the best speech Trump has ever given.

    What Trump did was stunning. He could just have signed the waiver of the law passed in 1995 compelling the executive branch to move America’s embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. He did it six months ago, just like his three immediate predecessors did every six months since 1996. Or he could have not signed the waiver and simply said he was going to start the process of building the new embassy.

    Instead, he called the international community’s seven-decade bluff and ended a delusion about the future that has prevented Palestinians from seeing the world and their own geopolitical situation clearly. It is a bold shift.



    David French of National Review — a publication so determined to stop Trump that it published an entire issue devoted to the cause — called Trump’s decision “a blow against international anti-Semitism.” French, who had actually contemplated running against Trump as a third-party spoiler candidate in 2016, declared Wednesday:


    President Trump’s decision to formally recognize that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel and to announce plans to move America’s embassy to the seat of Israel’s government is one of the best, most moral, and important decisions of his young administration. On this issue, he is demonstrating greater resolve than Republican and Democratic presidents before him, and he is defying some of the worst people in the world.


    The shift within #NeverTrump might charitably be described as a form of intellectual integrity, in that its members can concede when Trump does something right.

    However, few have accounted for the fact that had Hillary Clinton won the election — as many expected, and some even hoped — there is no way the U.S. would have recognized Jerusalem as Israel’s capital. Quite the opposite: Clinton would have continued Obama’s lame-duck, absurd policy of attacking the very Jewish presence in the Old City of Jerusalem as a flagrant violation of international law.



    Not all #NeverTrump pundits were prepared to celebrate what Trump had done. Jen Rubin of the Washington Post spent much of the day commenting on Robert Mueller (for) and Roy Moore (against), and was nonplussed about the news about Jerusalem: “The move strikes me as neither cause for wild celebration nor for apocalyptic talk.”


    Others, like Max Boot, likewise downplayed the news about Jerusalem in favor of tidbits about Michael Flynn and Russia.


    Republican strategist Rick Wilson, one of the the most vulgar of Trump’s antagonists, tweeted a video of Trump’s White House address that suggested the president was “slurring words.” But about Jerusalem itself: nothing.


    Bill Kristol, normally a vocal supporter of Israel, was also silent. He found time to tweet from Japan that “Trump is a demagogue” (Tuesday), and “Neither of our two political parties remotely resembles a serious and responsible governing party” (Wednesday), but said nothing about Trump’s decision on Jerusalem and the Israel embassy.


    For some, perhaps, the posture of opposing Trump is more important than the consequences of his presidency..





    http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...ve-good-trump/
    There are some people that thought Trump was playing chess while the rest of the candidates were playing checkers. I never thought that to be the case. I think he is transparent to a fault. That isn't something we're used to seeing in politicians. In fact, we've lauded politicians on both sides of the aisle in the past for being authentic, when in reality they were just really good actors.

    How often did a candidate say one thing during an election, talk a great game, then change their mind the minute they get to Washington? Trump has done nothing of the sort. He's been absolutely consistent, whether you like his policy ideas or not. He hasn't been able to get everything enacted that he wants simply because he's working with people that are politicians that are playing by the old "talk a good game, play a different one" mentality.

    Whether that gets him re-elected or not is an open question. There are many other factors voters will consider besides that, including whether they are sick of hearing all the negativity (even if much of it is manufactured) surrounding his Presidency and just want to watch the news again without a pit in their stomach.
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

  5. #28880
    Good Enough pickslide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Get The Show On The Road View Post
    It's the human condition and it's not going to change.

    It goes on in my local school board elections FFS.

    The point being that this sham of an investigation is not leading us toward where any of this will end. It is just perpetuating the cycle and the next time a Democrat is in office it will start up again.

    At some point someone has to break the cycle. I don't anticipate that anytime soon.
    I don't agree that it's an inevitable "human condition." It is a choice government officials make, and we, as voters decide whether we accept it or not. Unfortunately, we have largely accepted it, and unfortunately, we consistently vote in favor of its continuing. But it doesn't have to be that way.

    We have the choice to demand better from our government, and they have the choice to do our bidding or resist it. We still live in a nominally free country, and we still have a modicum of control over who runs the government. But our level of care and attention is the same as that shown in the comment section of a sports website. We want a "team" victory, even if our guy is just a blowhard who isn't really going to change much.

    Really want to be depressed? Read the complete Lincoln-Douglas debates, and then watch a modern debate. It's embarrassing, and does not bode well for substantive public discussion.

    TK

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  7. #28881
    Good Enough pickslide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Get The Show On The Road View Post
    Yes, there would. But not from the same people that are supporting this one.

    It is true that the "we didn't have contact" claims have proven to be false. However, from everything I have read and seen, the contact happened after the election in an attempt to improve relations with Russia. So I'm not sure what the problem is. I personally would like the U.S. to have better relations with Russia, along with other countries of the world so that maybe we can take a step back from always being the world's police force.

    And believe me, I would be a little more tolerant of this if it wasn't an investigation being led by a bunch of Democratic donors and people who donated to Clinton specifically. That doesn't exactly set my mind at ease that this is being done in an impartial manner.
    Pardon the broken record routine, but Watergate started this way too. If enough dominoes fall (not guaranteeing they WILL), a bipartisan consensus may emerge. If not, it won't. Democrats don't have the votes to throw him out of office. But that could change, depending on how/if evidence mounts.

    TK

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  9. #28882
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    People don't wanna know, because it's their guy:
    What a waste of time this investigation is.

    But if the parties in question were reversed, they'd scream: Leave no stone unturned!

    That's what bugs me about this thread.
    The blatant hypocrisy:

    Get Franken out of there, you spineless Dems!

    Roy Moore?

    Nah, he's innocent, it's all a set-up.

    It's pretty astonishing.

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  11. #28883
    Atomic Punk bklynboy68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by japeape View Post
    People don't wanna know, because it's their guy:
    What a waste of time this investigation is.

    But if the parties in question were reversed, they'd scream: Leave no stone unturned!

    That's what bugs me about this thread.
    The blatant hypocrisy:

    Get Franken out of there, you spineless Dems!

    Roy Moore?

    Nah, he's innocent, it's all a set-up.

    It's pretty astonishing.
    Who here called for Franken to be removed?

    Whether you like it or not, there is no physical evidence against Moore. Are you ok with what the Dems did and are doing in Alabama? The voters have a choice they have to make. Vote for a guy who 40 years ago may or may not have done something, or allow a guy who stands against everything you believe to represent you and hurt your state by supporting the ideology that has hurt them.

    20 or 30 years ago Moore would have been gone. The American people have accepted that these people in Washington are garbage and are not falling for the same games anymore. This is 2017 and the jig is up.
    Last edited by bklynboy68; 12.07.17 at 09:44 AM.
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  13. #28884
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    I must have missed the posts saying "get Franken out of there, you spineless Dems!"

    The deal with Moore is whether or not a person believes he actually did what he is accused of, or is this a political witch hunt.

    I don't care, as I think Moore is a despicable human being without even considering whether or not he is a pedophile. But that is an argument for another thread.
    Taylor Swift is nice to look at. Adele can sing.

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  15. #28885
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    I was having this discussion with my dad. It’s the optics with Moore that are bad. Maybe that doesn’t matter, but the Republicans are, as I’m constantly reminded, the only legit, for now, counter to the Democrats. And while they have control in many ways, their base is old and White, and America is getting beige.

    I don’t think Republicans need to abandon their principles, but fighting tooth and nail for the epitome of what outsiders who don’t see themselves in the GOP actually think about the GOP is a problem.

    What I mean is that he’s a gay-hating evangelical who put religious law, as a judge, above US law, and advocates for those things as policy. And it seems there’s a good likelihood he’s a “family values” Republican who once molested children.

    They have Governers, Congress, the Presidency, and SCOTUS. But they won’t forever. With declining membership and in 2017 going to bat for Moore just makes them less appealing to any moderate who they might otherwise recruit.

    Quote Originally Posted by pickslide View Post
    I don't agree that it's an inevitable "human condition." It is a choice government officials make, and we, as voters decide whether we accept it or not. Unfortunately, we have largely accepted it, and unfortunately, we consistently vote in favor of its continuing. But it doesn't have to be that way.

    We have the choice to demand better from our government, and they have the choice to do our bidding or resist it. We still live in a nominally free country, and we still have a modicum of control over who runs the government. But our level of care and attention is the same as that shown in the comment section of a sports website. We want a "team" victory, even if our guy is just a blowhard who isn't really going to change much.

    Really want to be depressed? Read the complete Lincoln-Douglas debates, and then watch a modern debate. It's embarrassing, and does not bode well for substantive public discussion.

    TK
    It’s an education failure. We aren’t teaching the kids the knowledge and skills they need to be an educated voter.

    If you sat down the average voter who supports A and asked them about his/her policies but substituted B’s policies, that voter would advocate those positions. They pick a side they feel good about and then that’s the side, even if views change (like half the right’s 180 on trade).


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  17. #28886
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    We wanted light to be shone on this issue and we got it.

    When you open the floodgates, people come out losers and some get by unscathed. It ain't fair but many things aren't.

    Franken lost because the heat is too much on this and it's Washington. They run for cover.

    Bye bye Al. You got a generous pension courtesy of the American people.

    Go play golf.

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    I’d feel worse for Al, but he’s just so damned condescending. It’s the same reason I can’t stand Bill Nye.

    Not sure he needed to resign but Congress should be public service, not a career and retirement. The party wants him gone and that’s how it works.


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    Good Enough pickslide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post

    It’s an education failure.
    It is, indeed. It's also a behavior failure. There are people all over this country and probably in this thread who are clearly well-informed on the issues of the day, but who favor the dopamine rush of a short-term, petty political victory over the perpetuation and extension of human liberty. That misguided preference produces a government full of similar-minded people.

    TK

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  21. #28889
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    Quote Originally Posted by pickslide View Post
    It is, indeed. It's also a behavior failure. There are people all over this country and probably in this thread who are clearly well-informed on the issues of the day, but who favor the dopamine rush of a short-term, petty political victory over the perpetuation and extension of human liberty. That misguided preference produces a government full of similar-minded people.

    TK
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  23. #28890
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    Quote Originally Posted by pickslide View Post
    I don't agree that it's an inevitable "human condition." It is a choice government officials make, and we, as voters decide whether we accept it or not. Unfortunately, we have largely accepted it, and unfortunately, we consistently vote in favor of its continuing. But it doesn't have to be that way.

    We have the choice to demand better from our government, and they have the choice to do our bidding or resist it. We still live in a nominally free country, and we still have a modicum of control over who runs the government. But our level of care and attention is the same as that shown in the comment section of a sports website. We want a "team" victory, even if our guy is just a blowhard who isn't really going to change much.

    Really want to be depressed? Read the complete Lincoln-Douglas debates, and then watch a modern debate. It's embarrassing, and does not bode well for substantive public discussion.

    TK
    You and I see it this way. Unfortunately most people don't. They're not given to a whole lot of introspection and critical thinking.

    I voted for Trump because in my opinion he was the only individual that had a chance of being elected that was capable of beginning to end the garbage we see from both parties. I was a Rand guy and still am, but he wasn't on the general election ballot. I don't give a shit about Trump personally, I care about what he represents which is a government outsider that is loathed by both establishment wings of the current two parties. He's the only Republican I voted for, down ticket I voted for the Libertarians even though I knew they had no chance of winning.

    So I guess you could say Trump is "my guy" but not for the reasons that most people would associate with. That said, if there is shown to be evidence of wrongdoing then I'll fully support his removal from office. But it needs to be legitimate, not trumped up bullshit from a partisan "investigation" which is what it seems to be to me at this point.

    As far as the inevitable "human condition" I disagree. I think that most people are wired to see things in terms of "my" team and "your" team. It is a survival mechanism from back when we were living in the wild and needed to depend on others for survival. Hence why humans became tribal creatures. And we still see this today in less developed nations. In our country it still exists, that's why you get beat up in the stands for wearing the wrong colored jersey at a football game, and why the Sam vs. Dave shit on this board gets so ridiculous.

    You and I and others we know may be above that nonsense, but the general population is not. And because of that, we're unlikely to see any sort of change.

    Just my opinion, I could be wrong.
    The only genre I really know is Van Halen.

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