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  1. #35386
    Atomic Punk Get The Show On The Road's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    of course it's a myth. "Free Trade" is simply an agreement between nations on "rules of trade", it's never been pure free trade because America would never allow another nation to control her markets (nor will other countries). Canada and America have never truly had a free trade agreement. If we did then I could just stroll down south with 50 cuban cigars, I can't. I'd be able to head to states and buy a car and head back to Canada and not pay a tariff. I can't. But that's ok. We have a very good trade agreement that has been around for 30 years. NAFTA changed things dramatically because American corporations discovered the benefit of what was basically slave labour. That was the game changer in my opinion.
    Right. And some of us recognize there will never be truly free trade and would prefer to change the game back to what it was pre-NAFTA.

    It's not free trade when companies with armies of lobbyists get the government to greenlight deals with third world countries to produce products using slave labor. If anything its crony capitalism.
    The only genre I really know is Van Halen.

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  3. #35387
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Get The Show On The Road View Post
    Right. And some of us recognize there will never be truly free trade and would prefer to change the game back to what it was pre-NAFTA.

    It's not free trade when companies with armies of lobbyists get the government to greenlight deals with third world countries to produce products using slave labor. If anything its crony capitalism.
    I'm with you. So are 90% of canadians I'm guessing

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  5. #35388
    Good Enough pickslide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    of course it's a myth. "Free Trade" is simply an agreement between nations on "rules of trade", it's never been pure free trade because America would never allow another nation to control her markets (nor will other countries). Canada and America have never truly had a free trade agreement. If we did then I could just stroll down south with 50 cuban cigars, I can't. I'd be able to head to states and buy a car and head back to Canada and not pay a tariff. I can't. But that's ok. We have a very good trade agreement that has been around for 30 years. NAFTA changed things dramatically because American corporations discovered the benefit of what was basically slave labour. That was the game changer in my opinion.
    Yeah, I don't think we'll ever have real free trade. Which is kinda sad when you consider that our hemisphere is dominated by ostensibly free countries that get along rather well and have shed blood together for the cause of freedom. Really, we should only have a broad set of rules about fraud, pollution, safety, etc. There shouldn't be any tariffs or limits on selling legal products. I am continually shocked at how little faith Americans and Canadians have in their own professed economic philosophies.

    I can't speak for Canada, but the American version of capitalism is largely a welfare system for giant corporations that leverages latent Marxist rhetoric about "American jobs" to justify basic violations of free market principles, and to further tax end consumers.

    TK

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  7. #35389
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pickslide View Post
    Yeah, I don't think we'll ever have real free trade. Which is kinda sad when you consider that our hemisphere is dominated by ostensibly free countries that get along rather well and have shed blood together for the cause of freedom. Really, we should only have a broad set of rules about fraud, pollution, safety, etc. There shouldn't be any tariffs or limits on selling legal products. I am continually shocked at how little faith Americans and Canadians have in their own professed economic philosophies.

    I can't speak for Canada, but the American version of capitalism is largely a welfare system for giant corporations that leverages latent Marxist rhetoric about "American jobs" to justify basic violations of free market principles, and to further tax end consumers.

    TK
    It's not a faith thing, it's a survival thing at least for us. Your economy is 10 times the size of ours and you have state and city governments that are in love with giving companies subsidies and other goodies. Let's say we opened up the market completely tomorrow. We'd lose entire sectors inside of 6 months. That would just be stupid policy wise.

  8. #35390
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    Default THE TRUMP PRESIDENCY

    Quote Originally Posted by Wruff_ajax View Post
    This president isn't "anti free trade". He's anti shitty deal where one side is taking the other to the bank.

    Define "free trade". NAFTA and TPP aren't actually free trade. You though define free-trade by these deals that aren't actually free-trade at all.

    NAFTA; When we sell into Mexico, for example, there's a tax. They charge us 16%; we charge nothing. "Free trade". Free for whom?


    TRUMP: "I am all for free trade, but it's got to be fair."
    Well, I haven’t defined it, nor have I said what we have now is “free trade.” My contention all along has been that we’re headed in a less free direction. Before now, the trajectory for decades was in an increasingly free direction. But thanks for assuming instead of asking.

    To the bolder part, “fair trade” and “free trade” are two completely different things. So Trump is either stupid or a liar.




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  9. #35391
    Atomic Punk Get The Show On The Road's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    It's not a faith thing, it's a survival thing at least for us. Your economy is 10 times the size of ours and you have state and city governments that are in love with giving companies subsidies and other goodies. Let's say we opened up the market completely tomorrow. We'd lose entire sectors inside of 6 months. That would just be stupid policy wise.
    That's really the crux of the matter. If we had truly free trade the US would wipe out the Canadian dairy industry because it can.

    We would simply flood the Canadian market with milk at a price that there is no way Canadian producers could match.

    So naturally the Canadian government is going to put a tariff on US milk to ensure that Canadian producers can have a competitive price. The alternative is for Canada to cease producing milk and become 100 percent reliant on the United States for dairy.

    Some would say that comparative advantage should come into play here and that Canada should let that scenario play out and free up the capital and labor that is producing milk to do something more productive.

    That sounds great in theory and in the classroom. In the real world it is unworkable IMO.
    The only genre I really know is Van Halen.

  10. #35392
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Get The Show On The Road View Post
    That's really the crux of the matter. If we had truly free trade the US would wipe out the Canadian dairy industry because it can.

    We would simply flood the Canadian market with milk at a price that there is no way Canadian producers could match.

    So naturally the Canadian government is going to put a tariff on US milk to ensure that Canadian producers can have a competitive price. The alternative is for Canada to cease producing milk and become 100 percent reliant on the United States for dairy.

    Some would say that comparative advantage should come into play here and that Canada should let that scenario play out and free up the capital and labor that is producing milk to do something more productive.

    That sounds great in theory and in the classroom. In the real world it is unworkable IMO.
    Politicians need to get elected. Wiping out entire industries is a nice way to ensure that doesn't happen.

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  11. #35393
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    OPEC's oil output jumps in June as Saudi Arabia opens the taps to tame crude prices

    Saudi Arabia's oil production jumped by nearly 500,000 barrels per day in June as it aims to put more supply into the market to tame the cost of crude.

    Output from OPEC was up 173,000 bpd as the 15-member producer group prepares to lift production caps in place since 2017.

    OPEC forecast that global oil demand will cross 100 million bpd for the first time in 2019, but warned trade tensions could negatively impact the market.




    Saudi Arabia hiked its oil output in June to the highest level since the end of 2016, as it aims to cool the market after crude prices recently rose to 3½-year highs.

    The jump in Saudi supplies shows the world's top crude exporter is making good on its recent vows to tame oil prices. The kingdom has faced pressure from big crude importers like China and India, as well as President Donald Trump, who worry about negative economic impacts from rising fuel costs.

    The increase also comes as OPEC forecast global oil demand will surpass 100 million barrels per day (bpd) next year.

    Saudi Arabia reported that it pumped nearly 10.5 million bpd last month, up from just more than 10 million bpd in May. Data from independent sources cited in OPEC's monthly report showed a slightly smaller build to just more than 10.4 million bpd.


    That pushed production from OPEC to more than 32.3 million bpd in June, up 173,000 bpd from the previous month, according to the independent figures. The cartel's total production got a boost of 331,000 bpd from the Republic of Congo, which began reporting as OPEC's 15th member this month.

    OPEC, along with Russia and several other producer nations, has been limiting output since January 2017 in order to drain a crude glut that sent oil prices to 12-year lows in 2016. However, output from the participating nations has fallen much more than expected, largely due to production problems in several of the countries.

    At a contentious meeting last month, the cartel agreed to increase output in light of falling production in Venezuela and looming U.S. sanctions on Iran, the world's fifth-biggest oil producer. The producers agreed to start raising output beginning in July, but OPEC's latest monthly report shows several began pumping more last month.

    Iraq chipped in the second-biggest increase in June, upping its output by 71,500 bpd to about 4.5 million bpd. Baghdad was one of several countries that initially expressed skepticism about lifting OPEC's production caps.

    The United Arab Emirates and Kuwait raised output by 35,100 bpd and 27,300 bpd, respectively. The Arab nations are seen as two of only a handful of OPEC members with spare capacity.

    The gains were offset by a 254,000-bpd plunge in production from Libya, where an ongoing political rift shut several of the country's oil ports. Output also continued to decline in Angola and Venezuela, dropping by 88,300 bpd and 47,500 bpd, respectively.

    Iran also posted a small drop, bringing its output to about 3.8 million bpd. U.S. demands for oil buyers to cut Iranian imports to zero by November have roiled the market in the last two weeks. However, crude prices eased Tuesday after Secretary of State Mike Pompeo signaled some countries could get waivers.

    2019 supply and demand forecast
    OPEC also released its initial forecast for oil supply and demand in 2019 on Wednesday.

    The group sees demand growth moderating, but still increasing by 1.45 million bpd next year. That would push the world's appetite for oil beyond the 100 million bpd threshold for the first time.

    However, OPEC made clear that its view of the global economy assumes there is no significant increase in trade tariffs and that current disputes will soon be resolved. The cartel appeared to be referencing the growing number of trade battles the United States has pursued against China, Europe, Canada and other countries.

    "Hence, if trade tensions rise further, and given other uncertainties, it could weigh on business and consumer sentiment," OPEC said. "This may then start to negatively impact investment, capital flows and consumer spending, with a subsequent negative effect on the global oil market.

    OPEC expects production from countries outside the group to jump by 2.1 million bpd in 2019, led by surging U.S. output. That means the world will need about 32.2 million bpd from OPEC, or roughly 800,000 fewer bpd than during 2018, the group estimates.

    "Therefore, if the world economy performs better than expected, leading to higher growth in crude oil demand, OPEC will continue to have sufficient supply to support oil market stability," the group said.




    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/11/opec...-the-taps.html
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  13. #35394
    Atomic Punk Wruff_ajax's Avatar
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    Default 2018 NATO Contributions

    USA: $706 Billion
    UK: $61B
    France: $52B
    Germany: $51B
    Italy: $26B
    Canada: $22B

    The US tax payer pays 70 cents of every dollar that NATO spends.
    Jesus said to them, “If you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one."
    - Luke 22:36

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  15. #35395
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wruff_ajax View Post
    USA: $706 Billion
    UK: $61B
    France: $52B
    Germany: $51B
    Italy: $26B
    Canada: $22B

    The US tax payer pays 70 cents of every dollar that NATO spends.
    I know that a post in this thread said the NATO members would be laughing at Trump for suggesting to contribute 4% to defense.......Like we do. I'm amazed they would laugh at such a fair suggestion. I'm not surprised though. That's the way these people think. They bitch and complain about the mighty USA, but rely on us to protect them all the while.
    2018, the year of the Boomerang

  16. #35396
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wruff_ajax View Post
    USA: $706 Billion
    UK: $61B
    France: $52B
    Germany: $51B
    Italy: $26B
    Canada: $22B

    The US tax payer pays 70 cents of every dollar that NATO spends.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hired Gun View Post
    I know that a post in this thread said the NATO members would be laughing at Trump for suggesting to contribute 4% to defense.......Like we do. I'm amazed they would laugh at such a fair suggestion. I'm not surprised though. That's the way these people think. They bitch and complain about the mighty USA, but rely on us to protect them all the while.
    "You want us on that wall, you need us on that wall."
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    Steve Bannon breaks it down with Sean Hannity from London tonight:

    "The VH Universe is built on a wall that separates CVH from SVH. Tell either side there's no wall, you've bought a war. Or a slaughter." Lt. Joshi - LAPD

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  19. #35398
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    Stormy gets arrested for being a whore... and her lawyer screams political motivation.


    Stormy Daniels Arrested At Ohio Strip Club

    https://www.npr.org/2018/07/12/62830...hio-strip-club

  20. #35399
    ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ ○ Number 47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Rover View Post
    "You want us on that wall, you need us on that wall."
    Funny how WE don't have a wall.

  21. #35400
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hired Gun View Post
    I know that a post in this thread said the NATO members would be laughing at Trump for suggesting to contribute 4% to defense.......Like we do. I'm amazed they would laugh at such a fair suggestion. I'm not surprised though. That's the way these people think. They bitch and complain about the mighty USA, but rely on us to protect them all the while.
    Because it's a fucking stupid and completely unnecessary expense that has no justification. America spends that money not to defend nato countries but for her own reasons. You spent a trillion or so in your last visit to iraq. Does anyone think that was a good use of taxpayer money? You want us to mimic that sort of expense for what reason exactly?

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