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  1. #76
    Atomic Punk bklynboy68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    Really? No different than any other politician in history. Right?

    You think Hillary, Jeb, or Rand gives a fuck?

    Build the fucking wall and do the "comprehensive" approach.

    Let some in and deport the rest.

    Why is that so fucking hard?
    You can't put Rand in that bunch.
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  3. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    Really? No different than any other politician in history. Right?

    You think Hillary, Jeb, or Rand gives a fuck?

    Build the fucking wall and do the "comprehensive" approach.

    Let some in and deport the rest.

    Why is that so fucking hard?

    Yeah, I'd say there's quite a bit of difference. Those people have spent years in office trying to do good things, and sometimes they did. I think they care more than he does, at the very least.

    The country is falling apart. Hundred year old everything. The infrastructure needs fixed. We are falling behind everyone.
    It takes precedent over a wall.

  4. #78
    Atomic Punk bklynboy68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrideofPasadena View Post
    Yeah, I'd say there's quite a bit of difference. Those people have spent years in office trying to do good things, and sometimes they did. I think they care more than he does, at the very least.

    The country is falling apart. Hundred year old everything. The infrastructure needs fixed. We are falling behind everyone.
    It takes precedent over a wall.
    Yeah ok, Jeb and Hillary care about people.

    I think we have bigger problems than our infrastructure.
     "He has a swaggering retro machismo that will give hives to the Steinem cabal" -Camille Paglia on Donald Trump

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    "My beef is people thinking Bon Jovi is good cuz they sold lots of records to housewives." -tango

    "But being number one doesn’t really mean jack fuck all. We sold twice as many records as other records that year (1984) that landed in the Number One position." ~Eddie Van Halen

  5. #79
    Atomic Punk edwardv's Avatar
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    I thought Obama spent over a trillion in stimulus to rebuild the infrastructure the first term?
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  6. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrideofPasadena View Post
    Trump...what a joke! Might as well put Randolph and Mortimer Duke in. Can't believe people would want this guy in office. He could care less about solving issues or helping people. He's a billionaire that's all about himself, money and power.

    I agree something needs to be done about illegals coming in, but we can't afford a wall now. If that's even the answer.
    We got bridges, sewer, gas pipelines, highways, and tons of other infrastructure we need to update before we build a 1,000 mile wall.
    why can't you afford a wall? You're capable of spending trillions protecting other parts of the world but you can't afford to put your military at the southern border and solve a problem that actually impacts your own people? I don't understand this stuff.

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  8. #81
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    The other problem with Trump is what a thin-skinned prick he is. Any time someone disagrees with them, he goes on Twitter "burn" rants. What is he going to do in a debate, call Scott Walker a sissy girl? Call Jeb Bush a big fat dummy?

    The other day, Penn Jillette, on MSNBC, said, "The American public prayed for somebody on the political scene who would tell the truth without filters. And like the monkey's paw, it's come back and bitten them in the butt. You like it America? Here's someone without filters. Is this what you want? And it's kind of refreshing except that he's wrong about everything"

    Trump responded on Twitter. "I hear @pennjillettte show on Broadway is terrible. Not surprised, boring guy (Penn). Without The Apprentice, show would have died long ago."

    Penn responded to the Tweet."@realDonaldTrump Sorry you couldn't make the opening, but we know you're busy. Would have liked to have seen you. Be well."

    Trump responded to him. "I loved firing goofball atheist Penn @pennjillette on The Apprentice. He never had a chance. Wrote letter to me begging for forgiveness," and "The worst show in Las Vegas, in my opinion, is @pennjillette. Hokey garbage. New York show even worse!"

    What happens when his administration loses a Supreme Court case? Is President Trump going to get on camera and say, "John Roberts. Ugly man. If he were smart he'd be making millions of dollars as a lawyer. Instead he wears a dopey gown like a little girl. Chief Justice? More like Chief Big Dumb Loser?"

    Yeah, this is the type of guy we need in office. He Obama's narcissism to shame.


    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    why can't you afford a wall? You're capable of spending trillions protecting other parts of the world but you can't afford to put your military at the southern border and solve a problem that actually impacts your own people? I don't understand this stuff.
    We can afford one. It's investment versus effectiveness. $6 billion, likely more, for the rest of the 1300 miles. I say likely more because there is rocky terrain, mountains, valleys, rivers, and national parks to go through (or around). $7 billion a year for the increased patrol, and a few hundred million each year for maintenance.

    We'd also have to forcibly take lots of private property if the owners do not agree to a fence on their property, and while our government is supposed to pay the market rate, they usually pay way below that because they know it costs more to sue them. While it' old hat by now, I wish we'd all be a little more upset with the federal government essentially steals land from people.

    As I pointed out, on flat terrain, the Berlin Wall was still penetrated multiple times per day. With mountains, hills, valleys, rocky terrain, the Rio Grande, national parks, possible gaps, private property, digging under, climbing over, tearing down...we're likely to dwarf that number.

    Finally, 45% of all illegal immigrants simply overstay their visas. That's a lot of money for a not-very-effective solution that only targets half the problem.

  9. #82
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post


    We can afford one. It's investment versus effectiveness. $6 billion, likely more, for the rest of the 1300 miles. I say likely more because there is rocky terrain, mountains, valleys, rivers, and national parks to go through (or around). $7 billion a year for the increased patrol, and a few hundred million each year for maintenance.

    We'd also have to forcibly take lots of private property if the owners do not agree to a fence on their property, and while our government is supposed to pay the market rate, they usually pay way below that because they know it costs more to sue them. While it' old hat by now, I wish we'd all be a little more upset with the federal government essentially steals land from people.

    As I pointed out, on flat terrain, the Berlin Wall was still penetrated multiple times per day. With mountains, hills, valleys, rocky terrain, the Rio Grande, national parks, possible gaps, private property, digging under, climbing over, tearing down...we're likely to dwarf that number.

    Finally, 45% of all illegal immigrants simply overstay their visas. That's a lot of money for a not-very-effective solution that only targets half the problem.
    that means 55% of all illeagal immigrants don't overstay their visas. Maybe it's time to start focusing on that very large part of the problem. The wall cost 6 billion, what does it cost to not have a wall? 10 times that amount, 100 times? You cannot have a neighbour reguarly jumping into your backyard and breaking your stuff over and over again and use "well it's expensive to build a big fence and sometimes houseguests break stuff too" as an excuse to not build a larger fence. If the govt doesn't care then they way as well save a bunch of money and stop having border agents completely. Why are they wasting time checking my paperwork when the southern border apparently doesn't matter?

    As for the property rights, I have zero issue with the govt acquiring property alongside a border in the issue of national security. In fact i'm quite amazed people are even allowed to own property that sits that close to a foreign border.

  10. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    that means 55% of all illeagal immigrants don't overstay their visas. Maybe it's time to start focusing on that very large part of the problem. The wall cost 6 billion, what does it cost to not have a wall? 10 times that amount, 100 times? You cannot have a neighbour reguarly jumping into your backyard and breaking your stuff over and over again and use "well it's expensive to build a big fence and sometimes houseguests break stuff too" as an excuse to not build a larger fence. If the govt doesn't care then they way as well save a bunch of money and stop having border agents completely. Why are they wasting time checking my paperwork when the southern border apparently doesn't matter?

    As for the property rights, I have zero issue with the govt acquiring property alongside a border in the issue of national security. In fact i'm quite amazed people are even allowed to own property that sits that close to a foreign border.
    Well, we're not going to build the wall on mountains, leaving big gaps. We also can't build it on major parts of the Rio Grande, which is a major pipeline for illegal immigration. We're not going to build fences within Big Bend National Park, where the Rio Grande is the border between the two countries, which means that will become a major pipeline as well, despite being a more dangerous route.

    The cartels run black market immigration, and they will cope with a wall the same way they have coped with the drug war. In other words, it won't stop them. They will tunnel under to remote areas that aren't patrolled as well (and as we should know by now, the cartels are really good at tunneling under things), they will use, ahem, ladders like they do now on the 700 feet that already exists, they will cut holes in it like they already do to the 700 feet that already exists...

    Look, in theory, I agree with you all. In practice, I see this as a dismal failure. Even the most secure walls in history were porous. The existing wall does almost nothing. Extending it will be very costly, and why should any of us doubt that the cartels who run the black market labor across the border will not simply adjust to the wall? That's not even taking into account the big gaps.

    Why is everyone so opposed to allowing peaceful people legal entrance into our country? If we did that, it would bring black market labor from underground to above ground, it puts the smuggling side of the cartels' business out of business, and it frees up border patrol to concentrate on violent criminal activity and terrorism, not rounding up moms who got raped and risked death to give her kids a better life.

    As far as property, some people have had that land in their family for hundreds of years (or had, for the people who received pennies on the dollar for the 700 miles of fence currently constructed). The federal government, by law, is supposed to pay you market value. One of the Texans who sold a piece of his land to the federal government got $1650 from them. He couldn't afford legal representation to fight the valuation. A Texas landowner who could? He got $1 million for his similar slice of land. That's wrong no matter how you slice it.

  11. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    Well, we're not going to build the wall on mountains, leaving big gaps. We also can't build it on major parts of the Rio Grande, which is a major pipeline for illegal immigration. We're not going to build fences within Big Bend National Park, where the Rio Grande is the border between the two countries, which means that will become a major pipeline as well, despite being a more dangerous route.

    The cartels run black market immigration, and they will cope with a wall the same way they have coped with the drug war. In other words, it won't stop them. They will tunnel under to remote areas that aren't patrolled as well (and as we should know by now, the cartels are really good at tunneling under things), they will use, ahem, ladders like they do now on the 700 feet that already exists, they will cut holes in it like they already do to the 700 feet that already exists...

    Look, in theory, I agree with you all. In practice, I see this as a dismal failure. Even the most secure walls in history were porous. The existing wall does almost nothing. Extending it will be very costly, and why should any of us doubt that the cartels who run the black market labor across the border will not simply adjust to the wall? That's not even taking into account the big gaps.

    Why is everyone so opposed to allowing peaceful people legal entrance into our country? If we did that, it would bring black market labor from underground to above ground, it puts the smuggling side of the cartels' business out of business, and it frees up border patrol to concentrate on violent criminal activity and terrorism, not rounding up moms who got raped and risked death to give her kids a better life.

    As far as property, some people have had that land in their family for hundreds of years (or had, for the people who received pennies on the dollar for the 700 miles of fence currently constructed). The federal government, by law, is supposed to pay you market value. One of the Texans who sold a piece of his land to the federal government got $1650 from them. He couldn't afford legal representation to fight the valuation. A Texas landowner who could? He got $1 million for his similar slice of land. That's wrong no matter how you slice it.
    You can put a man on the moon but you can't build a fence or place your military in charge of your border. One say I'll understand America. Not soon it would appear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    You can put a man on the moon but you can't build a fence or place your military in charge of your border. One say I'll understand America. Not soon it would appear.
    And I will never understand the America that wants the most militarized border since the Berlin Wall instead of welcoming any peaceful people who want to come here for a better life. These people want to come here legally. They just can't.

    We may as well reenact the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 and rename it the Mexican Exclusion Act.

    An Act to execute certain treaty stipulations relating to C̶h̶i̶n̶e̶s̶e̶ Mexicans.

    Whereas in the opinion of the Government of the United States the coming of C̶h̶i̶n̶e̶s̶e̶ Mexican laborers to this country endangers the good order of certain localities within the territory thereof: Therefore,

    Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That from and after the expiration of ninety days next after the passage of this act, and until the expiration of ten years next after the passage of this act, the coming of C̶h̶i̶n̶e̶s̶e̶ Mexican laborers to the United States be, and the same is hereby, suspended; and during such suspension it shall not be lawful for any C̶h̶i̶n̶e̶s̶e̶ laborer to come, or having so come after the expiration of said ninety days to remain within the United States.

    . . .

    SEC.15. That the words "C̶h̶i̶n̶e̶s̶e̶ Mexican laborers", wherever used in this act shall be construed to mean both skilled and unskilled laborers and C̶h̶i̶n̶e̶s̶e̶ Mexicans employed in m̶i̶n̶i̶n̶g̶ agriculture or construction.
    The sad part is that this Jim Crow-era law would have major support today, if you changed "Chinese" to "Mexican."
    Last edited by lovemachine97(Version 2); 07.17.15 at 01:26 PM.

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    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    And I will never understand the America that wants the most militarized border since the Berlin Wall instead of welcoming any peaceful people who want to come here for a better life. These people want to come here legally. They just can't.

    We may as well reenact the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 and rename it the Mexican Exclusion Act.



    The sad part is that this Jim Crow-era law would have major support today, if you changed "Chinese" to "Mexican."
    You can't run a household budget when you have an unlimited number of guests. The math never works.

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    Last edited by rocknblues81; 07.17.15 at 03:55 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    You can't run a household budget when you have an unlimited number of guests. The math never works.
    That's the thing.

    How many can we absorb each year? Nobody wants to say.

    It's just "let more in" legally. I'll be straight up...how many poor people with limited skills can we allow?

    We have enough of Mexico's poor. What about other people from countries not on our border?

    This pisses me off and I'm half MEXICAN!

    Enough already!

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    If all the illegal immigrants here right now, at this specific moment, had come here legally and still resided here legally, would you all still want the vast majority of them deported and a wall built?

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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    If all the illegal immigrants here right now, at this specific moment, had come here legally and still resided here legally, would you all still want the vast majority of them deported and a wall built?
    No, but if they had all come here legally the numbers would be less. To me it's not about excluding a populace, it's about taking care of us.
    I love all of my relatives, of course. But if all of them showed up at my door (cousins, aunts and uncles, etc.) I couldn't afford to feed them. Simple.

 

 

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