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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    Default L.A. labor unions seek exemption to minimum wage law they supported

    At least the unions are being nearly honest about why they support minimum wage laws--they want to tax businesses for using non-union labor. There's a reason labor unions push for this and hire people to protest. They did this six months ago with large hotels in Los Angeles (http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...215-story.html)

    L.A. labor leaders seek minimum wage exemption for firms with union workers
    By PETER JAMISON, DAVID ZAHNISER AND EMILY ALPERT REYES
    Labor leaders, who were among the strongest supporters of the citywide minimum wage increase approved last week by the Los Angeles City Council, are advocating last-minute changes to the law that could create an exemption for companies with unionized workforces.

    The push to include an exception to the mandated wage increase for companies that let their employees collectively bargain was the latest unexpected detour as the city nears approval of its landmark legislation to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2020.

    For much of the past eight months, labor activists have argued against special considerations for business owners, such as restaurateurs, who said they would have trouble complying with the mandated pay increase.

    But Rusty Hicks, who heads the county Federation of Labor and helps lead the Raise the Wage coalition, said Tuesday night that companies with workers represented by unions should have leeway to negotiate a wage below that mandated by the law.

    "With a collective bargaining agreement, a business owner and the employees negotiate an agreement that works for them both. The agreement allows each party to prioritize what is important to them," Hicks said in a statement. "This provision gives the parties the option, the freedom, to negotiate that agreement. And that is a good thing."

    ...


    That last part is truly rich--the freedom to negotiate wages that might be below minimum. Ridiculous.

  2. #2
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    you're not wrong. This is one of the issue with having major shocks to min wage policy. It shouldn't be a political tool. It should be set and indexed to inflation and never looked at again.

  3. #3
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    Even if we move away from the philosophical position that a government should set a "wage floor," as you call it, as the government wields vast amounts of influence, roughly $4 trillion of influence per year, people, groups, and businesses will want to, for lack of a better term, influence that influence. That will never stop.

    So, for example, if the government makes it their business to be make marriages legal or illegal, you find anti-gay, pro-traditional marriage, and religious groups trying to make sure it isn't extended to gays. As long as the government taxes income, groups will try to influence their tax rates or exemptions. If the government forces people to enter into contracts they don't want to enter into, then people will wield that influence in other ways (like forcing photographers to shoot gay weddings).

    If government dictates wages, then the same thing happens. We have discussed our differences on the minimum ad nauseam, but if we agree to disagree at a philosophical level, then we should at least be able to both realize the political realities. No matter what we do, if there is government influence over wages, then others will seek to influence that influence.

    One will always come with the other. So if we like mandated wages, then we have to deal with exceptions and exemptions by the politically favored. Unions, as they have for a long time, will use the mandated wages to help the unions, not the poor.

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    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    Even if we move away from the philosophical position that a government should set a "wage floor," as you call it, as the government wields vast amounts of influence, roughly $4 trillion of influence per year, people, groups, and businesses will want to, for lack of a better term, influence that influence. That will never stop.

    So, for example, if the government makes it their business to be make marriages legal or illegal, you find anti-gay, pro-traditional marriage, and religious groups trying to make sure it isn't extended to gays. As long as the government taxes income, groups will try to influence their tax rates or exemptions. If the government forces people to enter into contracts they don't want to enter into, then people will wield that influence in other ways (like forcing photographers to shoot gay weddings).

    If government dictates wages, then the same thing happens. We have discussed our differences on the minimum ad nauseam, but if we agree to disagree at a philosophical level, then we should at least be able to both realize the political realities. No matter what we do, if there is government influence over wages, then others will seek to influence that influence.

    One will always come with the other. So if we like mandated wages, then we have to deal with exceptions and exemptions by the politically favored. Unions, as they have for a long time, will use the mandated wages to help the unions, not the poor.
    Many jurisdictions, including my own, have introduced min wage regulations and have it indexed to inflation. This is a very simple fix to this "problem". But you're right at at some point I'm sure business interests will try to reduce the amount and some fighting for labour will try to increase it. I think both should be told to go fly a kite.

  5. #5
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    I forgot the link to the article I quoted, btw: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...526-story.html

    Anyway, SoCal already has a labor black market. In every city, everyone knows what street corner they need to go to in order to hire someone for work, under the table, a day at a time. I know where it is in my small area of SoCal. It's because of the large amount of illegal immigrants. Once we hit $15, it wouldn't surprise me to see LA's black labor market expand.

    It might take on other forms. We have day labor centers here that are federally funded where employers hire people by the day. I'm guessing that expands too.

  6. #6
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    I forgot the link to the article I quoted, btw: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...526-story.html

    Anyway, SoCal already has a labor black market. In every city, everyone knows what street corner they need to go to in order to hire someone for work, under the table, a day at a time. I know where it is in my small area of SoCal. It's because of the large amount of illegal immigrants. Once we hit $15, it wouldn't surprise me to see LA's black labor market expand.

    It might take on other forms. We have day labor centers here that are federally funded where employers hire people by the day. I'm guessing that expands too.
    you're bordered by a 3rd world country. Doesn't matter what the min wage is you're gonna have a HUGE labour black market.

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  8. #7
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    you're bordered by a 3rd world country. Doesn't matter what the min wage is you're gonna have a HUGE labour black market.
    Don't talk about our Canadian friends that way.
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    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    Don't talk about our Canadian friends that way.

  10. #9
    Sinner's Swing! evhintexas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    you're bordered by a 3rd world country. Doesn't matter what the min wage is you're gonna have a HUGE labour black market.
    ....and may they all rot and burn in Hell
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  11. #10
    Gird your loins Daisy Hill's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 03:43 PM
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    Default

    I can see the point that with companies that are unionized, there are usually other benefits such as insurance, sick days, paid vacation days, profit sharing, retirement etc that are not factored into the wage paid

    if the minimum wage increases, those benefits could be on the chopping block, so that union workers could actually see the minimum wage increase, decrease their total benefit package. It does make sense to allow collective bargaining to determine what is more important to the worker...wages or benefits and what benefits they would be willing to sacrifice

    but my issue is that if the unions championed a bill without having done the proper analysis, and the unexpected result is that their people suffer (perhaps to the point of voting to leave the union?) then the bill itself was poorly thought out, and poorly researched as to the long range effects Proponents of the bill should

    Reminds me of the Frank Dodd SAFE Act which made it very difficult to do rent to own, or contract sales on houses or mobile homes unless you are a licensed mortgage broker

    all the mobile home parks that used to offer "buy here pay here" or rent to own programs or individuals who had houses that they wanted to sell on "land contract" were finding themselves in violation of the law

    it has had the unexpected consequence of keeping the lower income people out the market and trapping them in the rental market

    there is a new bill 'Preserving Access to Manufactured Housing" that is trying to work it's way thru committees again that would exempt mobile homes from the SAFE Act and treat them just like the titled property that they are, but there is little understanding in Washington as to how badly this act has affected one of the major industries in Indiana and one of the major forms of entry level home ownership and non subsidized housing for lower income Americans

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    Atomic Punk TheresOnlyOneWay's Avatar
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    These morons have pushed Hollywood out of California into my back yard and I'm reaping the benefits. Not only working in TV and movies for them, but our company has seen a huge uptick in business too. Dumbasses.

    Entertainment Industry Forced to Exit Hollywood due to Minimum Wage Hike


    The recent increase in the minimum wage to 15 dollars per hour by 2020 voted on by the Los Angeles City Council may have a larger impact on the entertainment business than previously thought.

    http://www.breitbart...imum-wage-hik...mum-wage-hike/
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  13. #12
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daisy Hill View Post
    I can see the point that with companies that are unionized, there are usually other benefits such as insurance, sick days, paid vacation days, profit sharing, retirement etc that are not factored into the wage paid

    The irony is that this is the exact "negotiation" that the free market entails, but the minimum wage efforts subvert it.
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