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  1. #1
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    Default Stephen F Cohen - It is The Most Dangerous Time Since the Cuban Missile Crisis

    I enjoy listening to Princeton Professor Emeritus Stephen Cohen speak on the radio. Usually he's a guest on the Jon Batchelor show. http://johnbatchelorshow.com/podcast...r-soviet-fates

    Here, Stephen is interviewed on the Young Turks show.


    ~~8 U.S.C. 1182(f)~~

  2. #2
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
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    It's an interesting listen, but I don't agree with his premise because I think it has some inherent flaws. He is reasoning that because of political pressure Russia felt the need to invade other countries like Georgia and Ukraine. He likens this to Kennedy standing his ground during the Cuban Missile Crisis. I think that's a fundamental mischaracterization of what the Cuban Missile Crisis was and how we reacted to it.

    We have to remember that during that time, the Soviet Union was slowly gathering countries and expanding its borders. Its main opposition was the United States, which was the only thing that kept Russia from taking over all of Europe at the end of WWII. When the Soviet Union put missiles in Cuba, they set the stage for a nuclear war that would only take minutes and would wipe out most of the US. In response, Kennedy didn't just stand his ground, but he quietly ceded the missiles in Turkey so it was a proportional agreement. We didn't invade East Germany and acquire it as US territory in response.

    With this latest aggression, Russia responded to political dissent by invading a sovereign country and annexing territory. That is not a proportional response and it is no way similar to the Cuban Missile Crisis.

    Another problem with his argument is that he says the expansion of NATO is the cause of Russian aggression. This is absurd. We aren't expanding NATO because we have plans of invading Russia. We are expanding NATO because countries that border the (former) Soviet Union fear for their safety and are worried Russia will overpower them and they will lose their sovereignty. Therefore, Russia doesn't need to invade territory as some sort of buffer zone to counteract American aggression. Those countries are simply asking to be armed to protect themselves against a historically aggressive neighbor that is vastly more equipped.

    Also, in that first podcast, they keep referring to the War Party as if that is really a thing. There isn't a political party that actively seeks war in the US. There are people on both sides of the aisle that want to be more aggressive in standing up to idiots like Putin that think they can bully the smaller countries around them, but no one is itching for a full scale invasion of Russia. There's a big difference between gearing up for war of aggression and being willing to stand your grown. Standing your ground isn't provocation unless the other person was looking for a fight all along. In that case, you simply quicken the pace rather than change the eventual outcome.
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

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  4. #3
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    Tonight, on the Jon Batchelor program, Stephen Cohen discusses how the National forces in the Ukraine are breakin the Minsk 2 Ceasefire, with the purpose to draw in the rebel forces in the East to a broader war, and to therby get the US to put Billions of Dollars worth of armaments in Western Ukraine.

    The rebels right now have what they want, and they have no reason or motivation to break the cease fire.

    The Washington Post and people writing articles there, are acting as propagandists to put forth a "storyline" that it's Russia and the rebels that are the instigators of breaking the truce.

    But, when the Nationalist West forces fire upon the Eastern Rebel forces, then the Eastern Rebel forces must fire back.

    But listen to the piece, and make up your own mind about who's trying to widen the war....

    http://johnbatchelorshow.com/podcast...viet-fates-and

    ~~8 U.S.C. 1182(f)~~

  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsbll4 View Post
    It's an interesting listen, but I don't agree with his premise because I think it has some inherent flaws. He is reasoning that because of political pressure Russia felt the need to invade other countries like Georgia and Ukraine. He likens this to Kennedy standing his ground during the Cuban Missile Crisis. I think that's a fundamental mischaracterization of what the Cuban Missile Crisis was and how we reacted to it.

    We have to remember that during that time, the Soviet Union was slowly gathering countries and expanding its borders. Its main opposition was the United States, which was the only thing that kept Russia from taking over all of Europe at the end of WWII. When the Soviet Union put missiles in Cuba, they set the stage for a nuclear war that would only take minutes and would wipe out most of the US. In response, Kennedy didn't just stand his ground, but he quietly ceded the missiles in Turkey so it was a proportional agreement. We didn't invade East Germany and acquire it as US territory in response.

    With this latest aggression, Russia responded to political dissent by invading a sovereign country and annexing territory. That is not a proportional response and it is no way similar to the Cuban Missile Crisis.

    Another problem with his argument is that he says the expansion of NATO is the cause of Russian aggression. This is absurd. We aren't expanding NATO because we have plans of invading Russia. We are expanding NATO because countries that border the (former) Soviet Union fear for their safety and are worried Russia will overpower them and they will lose their sovereignty. Therefore, Russia doesn't need to invade territory as some sort of buffer zone to counteract American aggression. Those countries are simply asking to be armed to protect themselves against a historically aggressive neighbor that is vastly more equipped.

    Also, in that first podcast, they keep referring to the War Party as if that is really a thing. There isn't a political party that actively seeks war in the US. There are people on both sides of the aisle that want to be more aggressive in standing up to idiots like Putin that think they can bully the smaller countries around them, but no one is itching for a full scale invasion of Russia. There's a big difference between gearing up for war of aggression and being willing to stand your grown. Standing your ground isn't provocation unless the other person was looking for a fight all along. In that case, you simply quicken the pace rather than change the eventual outcome.
    Thanks so much for this post! I totally agree. I think he means well, but these mischaracterizations of actual events are becoming more and more common. Sometimes I'll watch something on YouTube, and I become shocked at how some age old facts are being twisted for political agenda.
    It's very important that we keep actual history...Actual historical events firmly in our grasp....Not embrace revisionist history which frankly I feel is like a crime against humanity.
    It does no favors to anyone.
    I know some progressives feel differently, and that historical event's need to be "modified" in some way to change the social conscious, but how does this in any way help current generations, (and hopefully future generations) to learn from past mistakes, past victories?
    It doesn't. Japanese progressives attempted this by trying to force the removal of key elements of Japan's Empirical era in textbooks to reflect their history as purely peaceful one.
    It's a nice thought, but it was struck down swiftly by courts, saying that denying those evils of the nations history was in itself an evil lie, and that future generations must be fully aware of the ills of the nations past.

    A lot of what I see going on in the world today is in fact, history repeating itself, and a lot of the current players in Governments around the world blissfully unaware of the gravity of their actions.

    It frightens me...I won't lie.
    Last edited by we die young; 04.15.15 at 09:52 AM.

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  7. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by we die young View Post
    Thanks so much for this post! I totally agree. I think he means well, but these mischaracterizations of actual events are becoming more and more common. Sometimes I'll watch something on YouTube, and I become shocked at how some age old facts are being twisted for political agenda.
    It's very important that we keep actual history...Actual historical events firmly in our grasp....Not embrace revisionist history which frankly I feel is like a crime against humanity.
    It does no favors to anyone.
    I know some progressives feel differently, and that historical event's need to be "modified" in some way to change the social conscious, but how does this in any way help current generations, (and hopefully future generations) to learn from past mistakes, past victories?
    It doesn't. Japanese progressives attempted this by trying to force the removal of key elements of Japan's Empirical era in textbooks to reflect their history as purely peaceful one.
    It's a nice thought, but it was struck down swiftly by courts, saying that denying those evils of the nations history was in itself an evil lie, and that future generations must be fully aware of the ills of the nations past.

    A lot of what I see going on in the world today is in fact, history repeating itself, and a lot of the current players in Governments around the world blissfully unaware of the gravity of their actions.

    It frightens me...I won't lie.
    When I hear that someone is a "professor of Russian studies" I would like to take him at his word because he is a supposed expert. However, when he makes blatant mischaracterizations of historical events where the facts are widely known or conflates two completely different scenarios to make a point about modern policy, it makes me wonder how much weight I should put to his expertise. Even if he's spent most of his life studying everything Russia, if he is having trouble making coherent arguments with public data, I'm immediately skeptical of anything that he says about his own data.
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

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