Follow us on...
Follow us on Twitter Follow us on Facebook Watch us on YouTube
Register
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 40
  1. #1
    Eruption Arson's Avatar
    Join Date
    09.23.10
    Posts
    854
    Last Online

    02.24.16 @ 07:27 AM
    Likes
    346
    Liked 349 Times in 206 Posts

    Default Your thoughts on illegally downloading content.

    Let's face it...most people are doing it and it does have a massive impact on real music.

    What are you thoughts on downloading for free?

    Do you feel angry knowing that you paid money for something a million people got their hands on the night before it was officially released?

    Do you ever wonder why artists that can't sell records because of downloading all line up to play a festival named "Download"???

    To start things off let's hear from the pro-free download camp.

    Six Reasons Musicians Don't Deserve To Get Paid

    6. Most Music Sucks


    Whatever this guy is playing probably sounds really good, and it should cost money, right?
    Honestly, most of everything sucks. Most architecture sucks. Most visual art sucks. Most writing sucks. Falling in line with this noble, sacred truth, your music also probably sucks. Do you really think you deserve to get paid for sucking, just because you took the time to suck?

    Here's a parallel for you: Your friend decides to go to culinary school in Paris. He trains for a year with some of the most prestigious and proficient chefs in the entire world. When he comes home, he offers to cook you a meal for the modest price of just the ingredients required for the meal. Then he makes you a dish made of chocolate-covered sardines that have been marinating in duck blood for a week, garnished with Pizza Rolls that are frozen in the middle.

    Should you pay him for this rancid mess? Because that's what 99 percent of all bands are -- indigestible garbage, meticulously crafted with clueless pride.

    5. Art Has Never Made Money


    Mozart: Lived broke, died broke. What, do you think you're better than Mozart?
    Have you ever thought about artists throughout history and how many of them lived in poverty and contracted diseases like syphilis? How famous painters and sculptors who're still revered today made most of their money making insincere crap for a relatively modest paycheck from a religious figurehead or nobleman? Being an artist has always sucked, save for a few select individuals in the 20th century who have managed to avoid getting devoured by parasitic labels and managers. So why do you think that somehow the established paradigm should suddenly shift just because you have to pay for a practice space? Part of being an artist is being a loser. Accept it as people irrationally offer to have sex with you despite you having next to nothing to give in return.

    4. You Are Already Rich


    For the price of just one guitar, you could feed a starving village for a year, probably.
    If you have money to spend on lessons, on amplifiers, on pianos, on a vehicle to transport all of these goods, you are already wealthy by a global standard. I'm sorry that you aren't able to buy the brand of organic cookie dough your partner loves because the bar owner decided his coke habit was more important than paying you fairly, but guess what? If you are reading this sentence, I'm willing to wager that despite this grave injustice you're still going to be eating at least two meals a day in one of the wealthiest nations in the world.

    3. Feeling Pain Makes You Better

    You get a lot of weird pictures when you do an image search for the word "pain." This one was less tragic than most.
    You can't trust an artist of any medium who creates with the absence of genuine pain. That's what this stuff is all about -- communicating profound emotions through the cathartic process of creation. Contrived as it may seem, genuinely beautiful and memorable art (unless constructed by a brilliant and hollow master manipulator or impersonator) stems from an indescribable rawness that lacks a vehicle yet begs to be released. By keeping you miserable on some level, you're being granted a favor. You don't deserve to get compensated; it's going to make you into a boring chump. If you don't descend into illness and unrecoverable poverty, maybe later you'll thank the world for screwing you over.

    2. No One Deserves Anything


    This is you.
    The world doesn't owe you a single thing. The fact that you're here is likely a mistake or merely a piece of a giant incomprehensible puzzle organized by multidimensional beings. Did a bird deserve to get eaten by a cat just because it was an asshole to a worm the other day? No, of course not. It's life. In keeping, your band doesn't deserve a fistful of cash from Spotify. If it makes you feel better, nobody at Spotify deserves any of that money either.

    Sometimes reality just serves you a shit sandwich. Other times, it gives you some of the finest and most delicate prosciutto -- made out of some pig that absolutely did not deserve to get turned into dry-cured ham.

    1. You Care Too Much


    There are few things more rewarding than denying someone who cares entirely too much about something trivial. Rather than being content in doing the thing you supposedly are in love with, you choose to focus on things like financial compensation to indicate your success. If being validated by an outside force is what creates love and worth in your art, then you're doing it for the wrong reason, and so you get nothing. You lose. Good day sir.

  2. The Following Member Likes This Post:


  3. #2
    carpe damn diem billy007's Avatar
    Join Date
    04.19.00
    Age
    54
    Location
    On the wild card line...
    Posts
    28,683
    Favorite VH Song

    "Dance The Night Away"
    Last Online

    12.16.17 @ 07:14 PM
    Likes
    1,046
    Liked 1,350 Times in 926 Posts

    Default

    I messed around with Napster and, what was it called, Limewire?, back in the day, but since iTunes I purchase those songs I don't want to buy he whole CD which they are from. I've bought most of the songs I had downloaded before (I didn't download all that much and a lot of what I did download was stuff that wasn't otherwise available, such as Van Halen demos).

    I also can wait until a movie is available via NetFlix before I see it - no need to raise the Jolly Roger for me!

  4. The Following Member Likes This Post:


  5. #3
    On Fire Pizza Man's Avatar
    Join Date
    03.16.07
    Age
    44
    Location
    RI
    Posts
    406
    Favorite VH Album

    1984
    Favorite VH Song

    Drop Dead Legs maybe
    Last Online

    12.16.17 @ 07:42 PM
    Likes
    127
    Liked 173 Times in 104 Posts

    Default

    That's a pretty good read actually! Not to say I agree with stealing; we should follow the damn laws we have, except for speeding and smokin' weed.


    The whole career/economy thing just baffles the f*ck outta me. There's no justice to who gets paid what, in this life.
    Kevin

  6. #4
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    03.26.06
    Age
    43
    Location
    Vaughan, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    34,158
    Favorite VH Album

    like them all, no favourite
    Last Online

    12.17.17 @ 08:00 AM
    Likes
    1,321
    Liked 6,709 Times in 3,728 Posts

    Default

    I have less of an issue with people illegally downloading stuff than i do with the excuses they use to try to justify it. It's stealing. Very simple. Not that I'm completely innocent of similar stuff (never via download though, always assumed i'd get a virus the one time i did it), I remember buying a knockoff of the Toy Story dvd after buying it 3 times legally and having my son scatch it every time, at that point I figured Disney had enough of my money for the same movie.

  7. #5
    On Fire bjpack's Avatar
    Join Date
    03.11.04
    Age
    52
    Location
    Northern NJ
    Posts
    383
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning
    Favorite VH Song

    Unchained
    Last Online

    02.09.16 @ 12:07 PM
    Likes
    127
    Liked 298 Times in 143 Posts

    Default

    I generallly only download things that I wouldn't have bought anyway. If I do stumble upon something I like, I buy it. I guess I kind of use it the way we use libraries except I don't return the items, I eventually delete them to make more space.
    I'm not conceited. Conceit is a fault and I have no faults.
    - DLR

  8. #6
    Eruption Arson's Avatar
    Join Date
    09.23.10
    Posts
    854
    Last Online

    02.24.16 @ 07:27 AM
    Likes
    346
    Liked 349 Times in 206 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    I have less of an issue with people illegally downloading stuff than i do with the excuses they use to try to justify it. It's stealing. Very simple. Not that I'm completely innocent of similar stuff (never via download though, always assumed i'd get a virus the one time i did it), I remember buying a knockoff of the Toy Story dvd after buying it 3 times legally and having my son scatch it every time, at that point I figured Disney had enough of my money for the same movie.
    I agree 100%. The excuses annoy me.

    Now that you mention it....I wonder how many people don't download because they worry about getting a virus.

    You bring up a great point though I hadn't thought of. I must have bought VH1 4 times. The tape would just go bad and I had to get another. I've been using the uploaded CD I had bought decades ago ever since for my devices. I might have had to buy another if I didn't have that ability.

    I don't know that what you did is really worse than me using that same uploaded CD year after year.

    Man this site has some incredibly honest people. Cabo was catching it for watching youtube.

  9. #7
    Good Enough JakeK21's Avatar
    Join Date
    08.05.11
    Age
    23
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    2,288
    Favorite VH Album

    All of them
    Favorite VH Song

    There's just too many
    Last Online

    10.26.15 @ 12:38 PM
    Likes
    124
    Liked 138 Times in 79 Posts

    Default

    When there are so many ways for artists to get paid via streaming services (even though the pay is pretty bad), why would I ever want to torrent it? Using Spotify to discover music has led to me making sooo many record/merch purchases over the past couple of years.

  10. #8
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    06.05.03
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    13,994
    Last Online

    12.17.17 @ 07:25 AM
    Likes
    817
    Liked 3,117 Times in 1,828 Posts


    Premium Member

    Default

    I will download a leak of an album that I am highly anticipating and will buy. In fact, buying it is merely a formality. For example, I illegally downloaded STP's last album with Scott Weiland, Stone Temple Pilots (2010), a week or two early. I had preordered it on iTunes to make sure I got a particular bonus track, and I bought a physical copy just to complete my CD collection.

    I recently downloaded Van Halen's catalog (minus ADKOT) because I had ripped all the albums at 128kbps when I got the 60GB video iPod in 2005, and it was just easier to download the catalog via BitTorrent at 320kbps than go find all my CDs in storage and "rerip" them all.

    I've also downloaded albums I previously purchased but were scratched or damaged. There are special cases. I went through a crazy streak in the 90s when I was a teenager of buying CD singles for their bonus tracks. One such CD single I bought was Wiser Time by The Black Crowes. It had a b-side called "Chevrolet." When I lost that CD, I was not paying a premium to replace it. I downloaded the one song.

    Lastly, I download bootlegs that cannot be purchased.

    Every single one of these acts is illegal. When you purchase a song, you purchase a license to use it in that particular format, plus to transfer it for home use. So you can buy a CD and then make a mixed CD for household/personal use, or you can rip them to you iPod for personal/home use. But you can't make a mixed CD and give it to your friend.

    For my above scenarios, however, I don't feel bad at all downloading.

  11. #9
    5150
    Join Date
    12.13.02
    Age
    45
    Location
    Northern Ireland
    Posts
    575
    Favorite VH Album

    1984
    Last Online

    12.17.17 @ 06:22 AM
    Likes
    4
    Liked 49 Times in 30 Posts

    Default

    I depend on my intellectual property to feed and clothe my children, so yeah, I have a firm position on this. The list in the first post is unmitigated bullshit, but I assume it was meant to be. Thing is, though, it's not that far from the excuses people use in reality. And that's what really gets me, the stench of spoilt brat entitlement that emanates from those who try to justify illegal downloading:

    But, but, but...

    Music and movies and books are too expensive! Then do without. It won't kill you. And you can afford that smartphone and computer to play it on, or did you steal those too? The average book or album costs less than a couple of beers, for Christ's sake.

    I can't live without music/movies/books! Yes you can. It's not water, food, or shelter. It's entertainment. Fucking get over yourself.

    If I like it, I'll buy it eventually! The Queen said, "The rule is, jam tomorrow and jam yesterday but never jam today." (Through the Looking Glass, Lewis Carroll)

    Musicians/Film makers/Authors are all millionaires anyway! No we're not. The vast majority of us struggle to make a living wage. We probably make less than you. Pay up, you over-privileged tightwad.

    Labels/Studios/Publishers make too much money anyway, they don't need any more! And they use that money to reinvest in new talent. Example: Without the cash New Line Cinema raked in for the Lord of the Rings movies, they might not have had the spare funds to spend on a risky project like Christopher Nolan's Memento, which in turn launched his career, and later brought us the Batman movies. You starve the creative industries of money, then you choke off talent at the root.

    Labels/Studios/Publishers rip off the creators anyway! So why does that make it okay for you to rip us off? These days it's companies like Google who exploit artists, and you're helping them.

    Information wants to be free! This isn't information, it's not news. It's entertainment. And it's protected by international copyright law. Get your grubby, greedy, entitled hands off my property.

    And I could go on.

    One of the major problems is a lack of will from the enablers of piracy to do anything about it. Google and the social media sites rake in money from advertising through piracy, so they're never going to tackle it in a meaningful way unless forced to by law. And their lobbying power is too much for anything to actually get passed into law.

    Here's a frustrating example: I regularly see links on Twitter for illegal downloads of my books, and I have no means of reporting them. If those tweets were for counterfeit goods, like clothing or perfume, then there is a link to report them for that. But for links to illegal downloads? Nope. Thankfully, piracy hasn't torn chunks out of the publishing business - so far - in the way that it's done for music and movies. But it does worry me that one day I might not be able to provide for my kids just because some whiny spoilt brat doesn't want to pay $10 for a Kindle download.
    HERE AND GONE by Haylen Beck (Stuart Neville writing as...) - "It doesn't get better than this." - Lee Child, "Highly recommended." - Harlan Coben, "Cancel all your plans and settle in for the ride." - Ruth Ware, "This is a book that lives up to the buzz." - Alafair Burke

    Summer 2017 UK & North America

  12. The Following 6 Members Like This Post:


  13. #10
    Atomic Punk ziggysmalls's Avatar
    Join Date
    11.24.03
    Location
    Cleveland, Oh
    Posts
    12,982
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning
    Favorite VH Song

    Dance the Night Away
    Last Online

    12.17.17 @ 05:21 AM
    Likes
    2,608
    Liked 4,809 Times in 2,455 Posts


    Premium Member

    Default

    I look at like this. Most of the stuff I have downloaded I have bought at one time or another. I went through a phase where I sold about 3/4's of my CD collection. I miss that music now so I figure I had a license. Or I had bought it on cassette and don't have access to a tape deck anymore. That consists of 90% of anything I have downloaded.

    The rest IMO is not really different than when I used to listen to ZROCK or other FM stations and would record "singles" of bands. I had tapes and tapes of FM broadcasts and would play them over and over. If I hear a catchy song on the radio, use Soundhound to find out what it is and then search/download it what is the difference? My ears heard it on FM radio like it did in 81 but instead of pressing PLAY RECORD, I use another method to get a version of it. I still have about 50 cassettes downstairs that I dubbed from my friends original copy. I didn't pay for the license but sure loved jamming Mechanical Resonance in my boom box.

    The rest yeah you can say is stealing.

    That said I do come across bands that I like and then support or tell my friends about. Increased revenue through CD's or touring. I also remember me sneaking in walkman's into concerts to record shows when that was legal.

    Technically all of it stealing but I don't really feel that bad. Just that technology has made it easier. Theft is theft but we all did it in the past.

  14. #11
    On Fire bjpack's Avatar
    Join Date
    03.11.04
    Age
    52
    Location
    Northern NJ
    Posts
    383
    Favorite VH Album

    Fair Warning
    Favorite VH Song

    Unchained
    Last Online

    02.09.16 @ 12:07 PM
    Likes
    127
    Liked 298 Times in 143 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bjpack View Post
    I generallly only download things that I wouldn't have bought anyway. If I do stumble upon something I like, I buy it. I guess I kind of use it the way we use libraries except I don't return the items, I eventually delete them to make more space.
    I should add that it's been years since I downloaded any music illegally as I get all I need with Spotify and apps like it.
    I'm not conceited. Conceit is a fault and I have no faults.
    - DLR

  15. #12
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
    Join Date
    01.10.05
    Age
    47
    Location
    Kate Upton's Closet
    Posts
    37,932
    Favorite VH Album

    Alex, Dave, Ed and Mike
    Favorite VH Song

    The songs with Ed on them
    Last Online

    12.17.17 @ 07:17 AM
    Likes
    3,512
    Liked 18,163 Times in 8,977 Posts

    Default

    I buy it if it is officially released. But I have no problem with bootlegged live shows.

    I won't buy a pirated copy of an album, song or single.

    I even try to find someone to pay. I downloaded Jani Lane's unreleased solo album the other day, and I actually did try to find some memorial fund or similar thing to send some money to, but I couldn't find any.
    Taylor Swift is nice to look at. Adele can sing.

    Emperor Brett - "I can't believe you guys are analyzing song-by-song Van Halen III? What next, analyzing the script of Stroker Ace looking for some shred of Citizen Kane?"

    David Lee Roth did the impossible. He made Van Halen better. Deal with it!

    Preferred pronouns: he/him/his

    Hurricane Halen - Let's all gingery touch our sword tips!!!

    DONATE TO THE LINKS YA CHEAP BASTARDS!!!!

  16. The Following Member Likes This Post:


  17. #13
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.18.03
    Age
    34
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    8,660
    Favorite VH Album

    Van Halen/ADKOT
    Favorite VH Song

    Hot For Teacher
    Last Online

    12.15.17 @ 12:23 PM
    Likes
    575
    Liked 2,238 Times in 1,130 Posts


    Premium Member

    Default

    When I was a broke teenager I could come up with all kinds of rationalizations on why I downloaded music.

    They were all bullshit, but they made me feel better.

    Now that I have the money I can't justify illegally downloading anything. In a way, as a believer in free markets, I feel it's the best way to express my opinion on the value of art. If I like it and believe that it's worth the money, then I will pay it. However, if my curiosity can't rise above the value they are asking, then I'm speaking with my wallet: your stuff isn't good enough for me.
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

  18. #14
    Baluchitherium
    Join Date
    09.24.02
    Location
    North Central OKC
    Posts
    4,582
    Favorite VH Album

    VH, WACF, FW, 5150, OU812
    Favorite VH Song

    Dreams/Unchained/InASR/5150
    Last Online

    11.25.17 @ 04:30 AM
    Likes
    290
    Liked 298 Times in 161 Posts

    Default

    I discovered some great music during the Napster/Audiogalaxy/Limewire/Kazaa era. If it wasn't FOR illegal downloading, I wouldn't have discovered some of my favorites.

    Back in the day, I would only download something to try it out. If I liked it, I bought it. If I didn't, I deleted it.

    Sound samples are not always enough to pique one's interest. Posting a complete song or two is fine, but what if I don't happen to like those two songs? Case in point: Slechtvalk - a Dutch black metal/darkwave band that is one of my favorites - posted two free songs on a page back in 01 or 02. They were alright, but I wasn't smitten. It was enough, however, to make me curious to see what the rest of the album was like. I'm glad I illegally downloaded it because the songs that got me hooked weren't posted at all. Slechtvalk have become one of my faves, and since then, I've bought all their albums, their DVD, and a shirt.

    "The shit I read on this site." -- Dave's Dreidel (Nov 6th, 2013)

    "Don't ever confuse talent with fame." -- Bob Lefsetz

    "There's very little greatness in this world, but in the crucible of quality there's a special corner reserved for Van Halen." -- Bob Lefsetz

  19. #15
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    06.05.03
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    13,994
    Last Online

    12.17.17 @ 07:25 AM
    Likes
    817
    Liked 3,117 Times in 1,828 Posts


    Premium Member

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Charvel2 View Post
    I depend on my intellectual property to feed and clothe my children, so yeah, I have a firm position on this. The list in the first post is unmitigated bullshit, but I assume it was meant to be. Thing is, though, it's not that far from the excuses people use in reality. And that's what really gets me, the stench of spoilt brat entitlement that emanates from those who try to justify illegal downloading:

    But, but, but...

    Music and movies and books are too expensive! Then do without. It won't kill you. And you can afford that smartphone and computer to play it on, or did you steal those too? The average book or album costs less than a couple of beers, for Christ's sake.

    I can't live without music/movies/books! Yes you can. It's not water, food, or shelter. It's entertainment. Fucking get over yourself.

    If I like it, I'll buy it eventually! The Queen said, "The rule is, jam tomorrow and jam yesterday but never jam today." (Through the Looking Glass, Lewis Carroll)

    Musicians/Film makers/Authors are all millionaires anyway! No we're not. The vast majority of us struggle to make a living wage. We probably make less than you. Pay up, you over-privileged tightwad.

    Labels/Studios/Publishers make too much money anyway, they don't need any more! And they use that money to reinvest in new talent. Example: Without the cash New Line Cinema raked in for the Lord of the Rings movies, they might not have had the spare funds to spend on a risky project like Christopher Nolan's Memento, which in turn launched his career, and later brought us the Batman movies. You starve the creative industries of money, then you choke off talent at the root.

    Labels/Studios/Publishers rip off the creators anyway! So why does that make it okay for you to rip us off? These days it's companies like Google who exploit artists, and you're helping them.

    Information wants to be free! This isn't information, it's not news. It's entertainment. And it's protected by international copyright law. Get your grubby, greedy, entitled hands off my property.

    And I could go on.

    One of the major problems is a lack of will from the enablers of piracy to do anything about it. Google and the social media sites rake in money from advertising through piracy, so they're never going to tackle it in a meaningful way unless forced to by law. And their lobbying power is too much for anything to actually get passed into law.

    Here's a frustrating example: I regularly see links on Twitter for illegal downloads of my books, and I have no means of reporting them. If those tweets were for counterfeit goods, like clothing or perfume, then there is a link to report them for that. But for links to illegal downloads? Nope. Thankfully, piracy hasn't torn chunks out of the publishing business - so far - in the way that it's done for music and movies. But it does worry me that one day I might not be able to provide for my kids just because some whiny spoilt brat doesn't want to pay $10 for a Kindle download.
    I don't think anyone would begrudge this. What is your feeling on used property? I have a friend who teaches at a junior college. His department chair wrote the book that the teachers must use. His department chair actively goes around to campus bulletin boards and pulls down anything advertising selling the book used. That way, students have to buy it new.

    Are you okay with used sales (of which you don't see any money either) or not? No point, I don't think, just curious.

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01.26.12, 06:30 PM
  2. Woman illegally downloads 24 songs, fined to tune of $1.9 million!!!
    By Bono Vox in forum VH Fans Meeting Place (Non-Music)
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06.22.09, 01:37 PM
  3. Downloading Bit Torrents
    By GRCITY in forum Bootleg Network
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11.27.07, 06:19 AM
  4. Janis Ian - New article on music downloading!
    By Diver Down NJ in forum VH Fans Meeting Place (Music Only)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08.05.02, 10:59 AM
  5. downloading picture
    By seenbad in forum VHLinks Feedback & Troubleshooting
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 03.01.01, 01:33 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •