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  1. #1
    Good Enough DRFC's Avatar
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    12.15.17 @ 12:11 PM
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    Default WHY is Dave suddenly trying this new singing style only on occasion?

    Whether you can get past it or can't, I think we can all agree that Dave's occasional vocalese-esque, high-pitched jazz screams are the worst elements of these two songs so far, and of the 2012-13 tour in general. Or at least second worst for EC. I think without these momentary screams alone, the majority of the complaints today would go away.

    So instead of defining what he is doing, I'd like to get opinions on why he is suddenly deciding to try this, post-ADKOT, on stage only. Here's a few ideas to get things started:

    1) He genuinely thinks he got better as a singer between age 56 and age 60, finding a 'new octave' to play with, attempting to defy the laws of aging in both his body and his instrument. This is the new Dave, and it may get worse as he experiments.

    2) He can't do his yelps or double voice screams anymore and is trying something new to sound unique -- but he knows it's not sounding great and will work more on it.

    3) He's lost his edge -- which he started to lose in the 90s, but regained in 2007 when he was re-energized and had a chip on his shoulder. Now, his overall happiness and contentness comes out while he is singing once in a while, because he's on top of the world again (in his eyes).

    4) It's all his girlfriend's influence (friend of Yoko perhaps?)

    5) He is losing his hearing and/or his overall timing is off.

    6) With age comes change. It's only been five years, but a lot has changed -- the overalls and houndstooth cap look he has now, the slide step dancing, more recently the tattoos -- it's all part of growing old and being corny in a failed attempt to feel young. In short, he's turning into grandpa, whistling or da-da-deeing weird melodies in the car.

    7) Those are not hair replacement scars -- he had brain surgery.

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  3. #2
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    Regarding his voice, I vote #1. I think he is capable of doing the songs without the "higher octave" but feels that it adds something to it. I think he is narcissistic to the point of not really hearing or caring about any criticism. Also, I don't think he reads what people say about him (or anything) on the Internet so all of his interaction is very controlled and with a small group of people that may serve to lift him up but do not give him hard truths that might knock him down.

    Regarding his general demeanor including his new dance moves and wardrobe, I think that much of his transformation may have something to do with getting off some of the harder drugs and drinking less. For better or worse, this is the sober, prescription drug version of Dave as opposed to the hard partying, coked up, drunk and cocky version. I could be wrong but that's my take.
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  4. #3
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    12.15.17 @ 07:03 AM
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    He's been doing it since at least 1994. When he put a hand over one ear and started signing falsetto I was shocked. In a bad way. My opinion at the time was he was trying to compete with another singer who can sing in a higher range than he's capable of. And it's foolish. He's Dave and he's great! Pissed off Dave is even better. Happy yip yip Dave with the upper register stuff he keeps doing can be hard to take at times. Maybe Ed should tell him Sammy's back and he's out as they walk onstage every night. Then he'll growl and work the lower register where he sounds best.

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  6. #4
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    11.01.17 @ 03:25 PM
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    Like AFU said this isn't new. Read any interview from when he released Your Filthy Little Mouth in 1994. He talks about how he found new octaves in his voice. That's where it all began. In my opinion he ruined his voice from then on. You can hear it in YFLM, the DLR Band, BOV1, ADKOT, everything since 1994..... He seems to think it sounds good.
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  7. #5
    Eruption xk319's Avatar
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    But the level to which he takes his voice is new. That's the thing. 2012-2013 was by far and away the worst he's ever sounded, presumably through an avoidable choice he made (makes) to go even higher than he's done in the past. I will say 2012-2013 is the only time I feel he's ever actually....literally....sounded bad. Every other year for the entirety of his career he's stayed just below where he is currently trying to go. And it's overwhelming feedback that it is not working. People love the previous Dave so much, that's why the newer even higher pitch is striking a chord so badly with so many people.

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  9. #6
    Eruption
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    Quote Originally Posted by xk319 View Post
    But the level to which he takes his voice is new. That's the thing. 2012-2013 was by far and away the worst he's ever sounded, presumably through an avoidable choice he made (makes) to go even higher than he's done in the past. I will say 2012-2013 is the only time I feel he's ever actually....literally....sounded bad. Every other year for the entirety of his career he's stayed just below where he is currently trying to go. And it's overwhelming feedback that it is not working. People love the previous Dave so much, that's why the newer even higher pitch is striking a chord so badly with so many people.
    it may be the worst it's been but it's not new. go listen to the DLR Band CD from 1998. He was doing the same thing all over that album.
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  10. #7
    Baluchitherium Harpospoke's Avatar
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    12.14.17 @ 09:50 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRFC View Post
    7) Those are not hair replacement scars -- he had brain surgery.
    I lol'ed

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  12. #8
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    Well in my opinion Dave can sing however he wants to sing, but I do think this is an interesting topic, as his voice has definitely changed a bit in the last few years, so I'll play. I'll probably ramble a little working this out instead of giving you a 1,2,3 answer. Sorry I might also vent a tad.

    I saw them 3x on the last tour and Dave was awesome at each show—I bring that up to illustrate that my opinions are based on seeing him live and up close. Like many here, I also watched clips from each show as they went up on youtube, which are most assuredly different than being there in person.
    Vocally it was in the realm of what these new live tracks sound like—he can and does sing some in lower registers, some higher and adds in a few "accents" that used to be panther screams and now are what I call poodle yelps. Why the yelps? Possibly, he damaged his voice trying to sing so powerfully in 2007-8 or its simply Father Time and the price of an older, cigarette-smoking grip-it-and-rip-it singer who has used his voice for 40yrs as a rocket launcher belting out growls and panther screams at random and volume.
    The higher octaves? Could possibly be him compensating in his head for not having Mike in the mix. That's not a cut at Wolf, but their voices are different and Dave originally wrote these melodies with Mike in mind. If you'll listen to Dave speak now versus when he was younger you'll hear how much higher his voice is compared to how deep it was at a younger age. Also, have thought he tries to yell over the music at times, so his monitors/hearing might actually come into play.

    But, he phrases melodies however they come out, meaning I think he let's them just happen organically in the moment. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't.
    See, I think Dave is a straight up bohemian in every facet of his life and has a natural adventurous approach to performing. He rides the edge where things could fall apart at any moment. Hence the phrasing/melodies and accents that come out differently, sometimes strained, off-key, etc. Ed mentioned something to this effect, regarding the rush or thrill of performing recently, too, I believe.

    He sounded great at the shows I attended and led 20k of us singing the songs along with him, however, comparing a live performance to a recording can never stack up apples to apples. Life is not meant to be a Youtube/facebook post. And sometimes that 10 you took home from the party is a 6 the next morning. It happens. And I think that's the point.

    At my local shows he did spin kicks and splits, kicks and katas while he sang AND did several lion growls, especially in New Orleans, which was the last show of that tour so he might know those damage his voice a little and uses them sparingly. If you watch the video of Tokyo you can see some of the moments in question, where he might be rushing the phrasing or whatever and he might've been in motion.

    I am not an apologist or an excuse maker for Dave or any other performer who gets hammered for not presenting it just like the album. Fuck that. I like live FOR the mistakes. It is what it is. Everybody wants some—I want some too.
    As long as these guys can get up on stage and play the soundtrack from my childhood so that I can sing along, they get my money.

    Now about the clothes, jazz hands, etc. you mentioned that have come up in other threads. (Btw I feel goofy for talking about this stuff. I mean who cares? But I want to add my thoughts anyway since a lot of people seem so interested in nonsense)
    People seem to forget that everything Dave does/wears/says he has always done. He did jazz hands (remember the white gloves?) he wore zoot suit pants, overalls (as did Ed) and newsboy hats. He rambled stories in the middle of songs, he forgot the words, he danced, he sang off-key, he told jokes, etc. He is literally the same guy, doing the same shit, except now he's an older dude. He's had tattoos like a lot of us since the 90s when it became more popular, although I admit the full body thing is a new trend in 60-is-the-new-40 midlife crisis (see James Hetfield).

    Corny? Dave has always been corny.
    A sweaty 20yr old rock god chugging whisky and telling goofy jokes and acting corny comes across much differently than if your grampa is doing it.

    One things for certain, he works his ass off to entertain us. Which he damn sure accomplishes in my book.
    Okay, there's my 2 cents and possibly a little off topic. Haha.
    "I ain't complainin', you do the best with what you got."


  13. #9
    Baluchitherium thismusicsux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tbone View Post
    Well in my opinion Dave can sing however he wants to sing, but I do think this is an interesting topic, as his voice has definitely changed a bit in the last few years, so I'll play. I'll probably ramble a little working this out instead of giving you a 1,2,3 answer. Sorry I might also vent a tad.

    I saw them 3x on the last tour and Dave was awesome at each show—I bring that up to illustrate that my opinions are based on seeing him live and up close. Like many here, I also watched clips from each show as they went up on youtube, which are most assuredly different than being there in person.
    Vocally it was in the realm of what these new live tracks sound like—he can and does sing some in lower registers, some higher and adds in a few "accents" that used to be panther screams and now are what I call poodle yelps. Why the yelps? Possibly, he damaged his voice trying to sing so powerfully in 2007-8 or its simply Father Time and the price of an older, cigarette-smoking grip-it-and-rip-it singer who has used his voice for 40yrs as a rocket launcher belting out growls and panther screams at random and volume.
    The higher octaves? Could possibly be him compensating in his head for not having Mike in the mix. That's not a cut at Wolf, but their voices are different and Dave originally wrote these melodies with Mike in mind. If you'll listen to Dave speak now versus when he was younger you'll hear how much higher his voice is compared to how deep it was at a younger age. Also, have thought he tries to yell over the music at times, so his monitors/hearing might actually come into play.

    But, he phrases melodies however they come out, meaning I think he let's them just happen organically in the moment. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't.
    See, I think Dave is a straight up bohemian in every facet of his life and has a natural adventurous approach to performing. He rides the edge where things could fall apart at any moment. Hence the phrasing/melodies and accents that come out differently, sometimes strained, off-key, etc. Ed mentioned something to this effect, regarding the rush or thrill of performing recently, too, I believe.

    He sounded great at the shows I attended and led 20k of us singing the songs along with him, however, comparing a live performance to a recording can never stack up apples to apples. Life is not meant to be a Youtube/facebook post. And sometimes that 10 you took home from the party is a 6 the next morning. It happens. And I think that's the point.

    At my local shows he did spin kicks and splits, kicks and katas while he sang AND did several lion growls, especially in New Orleans, which was the last show of that tour so he might know those damage his voice a little and uses them sparingly. If you watch the video of Tokyo you can see some of the moments in question, where he might be rushing the phrasing or whatever and he might've been in motion.

    I am not an apologist or an excuse maker for Dave or any other performer who gets hammered for not presenting it just like the album. Fuck that. I like live FOR the mistakes. It is what it is. Everybody wants some—I want some too.
    As long as these guys can get up on stage and play the soundtrack from my childhood so that I can sing along, they get my money.

    Now about the clothes, jazz hands, etc. you mentioned that have come up in other threads. (Btw I feel goofy for talking about this stuff. I mean who cares? But I want to add my thoughts anyway since a lot of people seem so interested in nonsense)
    People seem to forget that everything Dave does/wears/says he has always done. He did jazz hands (remember the white gloves?) he wore zoot suit pants, overalls (as did Ed) and newsboy hats. He rambled stories in the middle of songs, he forgot the words, he danced, he sang off-key, he told jokes, etc. He is literally the same guy, doing the same shit, except now he's an older dude. He's had tattoos like a lot of us since the 90s when it became more popular, although I admit the full body thing is a new trend in 60-is-the-new-40 midlife crisis (see James Hetfield).

    Corny? Dave has always been corny.
    A sweaty 20yr old rock god chugging whisky and telling goofy jokes and acting corny comes across much differently than if your grampa is doing it.

    One things for certain, he works his ass off to entertain us. Which he damn sure accomplishes in my book.
    Okay, there's my 2 cents and possibly a little off topic. Haha.
    Well said. I think his organic off the cuff thing is right. I was listening to 1984 Panama bootleg and there are a lot of the same principles. Dave is going off into left field with the delivery and/or melody and/or lyrics... but it worked better, his voice was stronger and wasn't as glaring. It all kinda worked.

    I think he's doing much of the same now...it's just the voice is different. Maybe he can avoid the super high thing if he wants to and everyone would be happy.
    Last edited by thismusicsux; 03.04.15 at 10:33 AM.

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  15. #10
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    I blame better arena AC/Blower technology for Dave's Y2K+ cat squeals.

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  17. #11
    Sinner's Swing! evhintexas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tbone View Post
    Well in my opinion Dave can sing however he wants to sing, but I do think this is an interesting topic, as his voice has definitely changed a bit in the last few years, so I'll play. I'll probably ramble a little working this out instead of giving you a 1,2,3 answer. Sorry I might also vent a tad.

    I saw them 3x on the last tour and Dave was awesome at each show—I bring that up to illustrate that my opinions are based on seeing him live and up close. Like many here, I also watched clips from each show as they went up on youtube, which are most assuredly different than being there in person.
    Vocally it was in the realm of what these new live tracks sound like—he can and does sing some in lower registers, some higher and adds in a few "accents" that used to be panther screams and now are what I call poodle yelps. Why the yelps? Possibly, he damaged his voice trying to sing so powerfully in 2007-8 or its simply Father Time and the price of an older, cigarette-smoking grip-it-and-rip-it singer who has used his voice for 40yrs as a rocket launcher belting out growls and panther screams at random and volume.
    The higher octaves? Could possibly be him compensating in his head for not having Mike in the mix. That's not a cut at Wolf, but their voices are different and Dave originally wrote these melodies with Mike in mind. If you'll listen to Dave speak now versus when he was younger you'll hear how much higher his voice is compared to how deep it was at a younger age. Also, have thought he tries to yell over the music at times, so his monitors/hearing might actually come into play.

    But, he phrases melodies however they come out, meaning I think he let's them just happen organically in the moment. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't.
    See, I think Dave is a straight up bohemian in every facet of his life and has a natural adventurous approach to performing. He rides the edge where things could fall apart at any moment. Hence the phrasing/melodies and accents that come out differently, sometimes strained, off-key, etc. Ed mentioned something to this effect, regarding the rush or thrill of performing recently, too, I believe.

    He sounded great at the shows I attended and led 20k of us singing the songs along with him, however, comparing a live performance to a recording can never stack up apples to apples. Life is not meant to be a Youtube/facebook post. And sometimes that 10 you took home from the party is a 6 the next morning. It happens. And I think that's the point.

    At my local shows he did spin kicks and splits, kicks and katas while he sang AND did several lion growls, especially in New Orleans, which was the last show of that tour so he might know those damage his voice a little and uses them sparingly. If you watch the video of Tokyo you can see some of the moments in question, where he might be rushing the phrasing or whatever and he might've been in motion.

    I am not an apologist or an excuse maker for Dave or any other performer who gets hammered for not presenting it just like the album. Fuck that. I like live FOR the mistakes. It is what it is. Everybody wants some—I want some too.
    As long as these guys can get up on stage and play the soundtrack from my childhood so that I can sing along, they get my money.

    Now about the clothes, jazz hands, etc. you mentioned that have come up in other threads. (Btw I feel goofy for talking about this stuff. I mean who cares? But I want to add my thoughts anyway since a lot of people seem so interested in nonsense)
    People seem to forget that everything Dave does/wears/says he has always done. He did jazz hands (remember the white gloves?) he wore zoot suit pants, overalls (as did Ed) and newsboy hats. He rambled stories in the middle of songs, he forgot the words, he danced, he sang off-key, he told jokes, etc. He is literally the same guy, doing the same shit, except now he's an older dude. He's had tattoos like a lot of us since the 90s when it became more popular, although I admit the full body thing is a new trend in 60-is-the-new-40 midlife crisis (see James Hetfield).

    Corny? Dave has always been corny.
    A sweaty 20yr old rock god chugging whisky and telling goofy jokes and acting corny comes across much differently than if your grampa is doing it.

    One things for certain, he works his ass off to entertain us. Which he damn sure accomplishes in my book.
    Okay, there's my 2 cents and possibly a little off topic. Haha.
    I was at the Houston show and the N.O. show---Dave kicked ass both nights but especially in N.O.
    Last edited by evhintexas; 03.04.15 at 12:01 PM.
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  19. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tbone View Post
    Well in my opinion Dave can sing however he wants to sing, but I do think this is an interesting topic, as his voice has definitely changed a bit in the last few years, so I'll play. I'll probably ramble a little working this out instead of giving you a 1,2,3 answer. Sorry I might also vent a tad.

    I saw them 3x on the last tour and Dave was awesome at each show—I bring that up to illustrate that my opinions are based on seeing him live and up close. Like many here, I also watched clips from each show as they went up on youtube, which are most assuredly different than being there in person.
    Vocally it was in the realm of what these new live tracks sound like—he can and does sing some in lower registers, some higher and adds in a few "accents" that used to be panther screams and now are what I call poodle yelps. Why the yelps? Possibly, he damaged his voice trying to sing so powerfully in 2007-8 or its simply Father Time and the price of an older, cigarette-smoking grip-it-and-rip-it singer who has used his voice for 40yrs as a rocket launcher belting out growls and panther screams at random and volume.
    The higher octaves? Could possibly be him compensating in his head for not having Mike in the mix. That's not a cut at Wolf, but their voices are different and Dave originally wrote these melodies with Mike in mind. If you'll listen to Dave speak now versus when he was younger you'll hear how much higher his voice is compared to how deep it was at a younger age. Also, have thought he tries to yell over the music at times, so his monitors/hearing might actually come into play.

    But, he phrases melodies however they come out, meaning I think he let's them just happen organically in the moment. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't.
    See, I think Dave is a straight up bohemian in every facet of his life and has a natural adventurous approach to performing. He rides the edge where things could fall apart at any moment. Hence the phrasing/melodies and accents that come out differently, sometimes strained, off-key, etc. Ed mentioned something to this effect, regarding the rush or thrill of performing recently, too, I believe.

    He sounded great at the shows I attended and led 20k of us singing the songs along with him, however, comparing a live performance to a recording can never stack up apples to apples. Life is not meant to be a Youtube/facebook post. And sometimes that 10 you took home from the party is a 6 the next morning. It happens. And I think that's the point.

    At my local shows he did spin kicks and splits, kicks and katas while he sang AND did several lion growls, especially in New Orleans, which was the last show of that tour so he might know those damage his voice a little and uses them sparingly. If you watch the video of Tokyo you can see some of the moments in question, where he might be rushing the phrasing or whatever and he might've been in motion.

    I am not an apologist or an excuse maker for Dave or any other performer who gets hammered for not presenting it just like the album. Fuck that. I like live FOR the mistakes. It is what it is. Everybody wants some—I want some too.
    As long as these guys can get up on stage and play the soundtrack from my childhood so that I can sing along, they get my money.

    Now about the clothes, jazz hands, etc. you mentioned that have come up in other threads. (Btw I feel goofy for talking about this stuff. I mean who cares? But I want to add my thoughts anyway since a lot of people seem so interested in nonsense)
    People seem to forget that everything Dave does/wears/says he has always done. He did jazz hands (remember the white gloves?) he wore zoot suit pants, overalls (as did Ed) and newsboy hats. He rambled stories in the middle of songs, he forgot the words, he danced, he sang off-key, he told jokes, etc. He is literally the same guy, doing the same shit, except now he's an older dude. He's had tattoos like a lot of us since the 90s when it became more popular, although I admit the full body thing is a new trend in 60-is-the-new-40 midlife crisis (see James Hetfield).

    Corny? Dave has always been corny.
    A sweaty 20yr old rock god chugging whisky and telling goofy jokes and acting corny comes across much differently than if your grampa is doing it.

    One things for certain, he works his ass off to entertain us. Which he damn sure accomplishes in my book.
    Okay, there's my 2 cents and possibly a little off topic. Haha.
    That, mate, is one awesome post. Thank you.

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  21. #13
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    As a vocalist myself, I truly think Dave's issue is not his voice but his hearing. Dave was a pioneer in being one of the first singers to ever use in ear monitors. If you watch the Foo Fighters and Tokyo Youtube clips, he is constantly inserting and removing disposable ear plugs. If and when you cannot hear yourself, a singer will usually unknowingly compensate by over singing the lyrics. Also, if you can't hear yourself, you will throw your timing and phrasing off as well.

    When Dave does not over sing he is in the pocket the entire show.

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    Eruption donkost's Avatar
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    This is one of the most "recent" sightings of "CVH Dave" that I have ever come across- Romeo Delight from the 2012 New Orleans show, which turned out to be the last show on that tour. Watch Dave in that clip, he is even using his low speaking voice in the rant which begins around 3:30. A number of his mannerisms and facial expressions are CVH Dave as well, it's like he slipped back into early 80's mode. Dig his classic-style screams at 1:30 and 5:10, both quite powerful. My take is that this guy can still sing this way almost any time he wants to, except of course when he is sick. That might have been a factor at the beginning of the ADKOT tour. But otherwise, he does what he likes to change things up and no one is going to tell him otherwise at this point in his career. Just like no one is going to mention Ed's dry, crunchy, buzzsaw guitar tone to him. Opinions may vary...


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  24. #15
    Baluchitherium thismusicsux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donkost View Post
    This is one of the most "recent" sightings of "CVH Dave" that I have ever come across- Romeo Delight from the 2012 New Orleans show, which turned out to be the last show on that tour. Watch Dave in that clip, he is even using his low speaking voice in the rant which begins around 3:30. A number of his mannerisms and facial expressions are CVH Dave as well, it's like he slipped back into early 80's mode. Dig his classic-style screams at 1:30 and 5:10, both quite powerful. My take is that this guy can still sing this way almost any time he wants to, except of course when he is sick. That might have been a factor at the beginning of the ADKOT tour. But otherwise, he does what he likes to change things up and no one is going to tell him otherwise at this point in his career. Just like no one is going to mention Ed's dry, crunchy, buzzsaw guitar tone to him. Opinions may vary...
    very nice! I was ready to call b.s. on the classic screams, but damn those were good. And yes when he keeps lower register he's totally fine. I think many have been saying that for years, it's when he goes high off the rails. And that is usually every 3rd or 4th line in some songs.

    evh, wvh, avh or mgmt should be able to say as much. and the buzzsaw too.

 

 

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