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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk RRvh1's Avatar
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    Default Multi delay pedals .

    Just curious about your experiences (if any) with these types of pedals . I know that garbeaj has used a Line 6 DL-4 in front of the amp . I would be running whichever one I pick up after the MXR distortion pedal .

    I'm thinking about the TC Electronics X4 . I'm hitting the music store over the weekend and they have one in stock . There are others too like the Boss Giga-delay ,etc.
    Thoughts ?

    I own a couple of single delay stomp boxes right now . Wanting to get one of these ^^^ to have the settings stored , without going the whole multi f/x route . Been there done that ... Is it better to do it this way ? Or run about 3 or 4 single delays with some sort of a/b/y gadget to switch between them ?
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    Whoa, this is heavy! Jedi McFly's Avatar
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    I use a Line 6 M9 in the loop of my 5150 III with great results. 3 banks of 2 presets each are all instantly accessible, with the ability to save 6 other scenes and call up any other random effect I may need (mod, pitch, etc.)

    I would totally own either a TC Flashback X4 or a TC Triple Delay…if they had a true global tap tempo option. To me, this is essential for playing live.

    The difference is the M9 allows you to save a preset as either a ms value or a subdivision. So I have 4 delays at set ms values (slapback, always on, lead, volume swell), and 2 at note intervals (1/8 note and *1/8 note). I can tap my tempo in once and whether the delays are on or off that tempo is associated with the subdivision delays. On the TC pedals you’d have to tap the tempo in every time you recall a preset (it saves the tempo). For me, that’s a huge pain for playing live and requires unnecessary tap dancing skills.

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  4. #3
    Atomic Punk RRvh1's Avatar
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    Thank you for the very detailed reply , about how your Line 6 unit works for your needs . Very cool !!!
    That unit is something I hadn't considered before ... Turns out I was denied tomorrow as a vacation day , so I'll have to wait until Sat. to hit the music store . Just going to try out a few delay pedal options and pick up some swag .
    "There's too many people on this basketball that's floating around the sun, who are too afraid to allow themselves to FEEL" - Edward Van Halen
    "Van Halen was never about the singer..." - a very wise fan.
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    Atomic Punk RRvh1's Avatar
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    Here's another one for ya ; with the TC X4 , can the three presets be set up for different delay models ? ie button 1 has tape delay set to slapback , button 2 has reverse delay , and button 3 has dynamic delay with a long repeat time ? Know what I mean ? Or do all three presets have to use the same model , but with varying time settings within that model ?

    I guess the same question goes for the Line 6 DL4 as well .
    "There's too many people on this basketball that's floating around the sun, who are too afraid to allow themselves to FEEL" - Edward Van Halen
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    Whoa, this is heavy! Jedi McFly's Avatar
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    Yup, both of those can have different models assigned to different presets.

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  8. #6
    On Fire Stealth5150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RRvh1 View Post
    Here's another one for ya ; with the TC X4 , can the three presets be set up for different delay models ? ie button 1 has tape delay set to slapback , button 2 has reverse delay , and button 3 has dynamic delay with a long repeat time ? Know what I mean ? Or do all three presets have to use the same model , but with varying time settings within that model ?

    I guess the same question goes for the Line 6 DL4 as well .
    I can actually talk a lot about the TC Flashback X4, what I really liked about it, and why I eventually sold it. I had one for a year or so and ended up selling it for money to buy my Timefactor.

    First what I liked: It does have the ability to save every parameter of your settings per preset. So if you want 1 tape, 1 analog, and 1 digital, it will save the delay type and the knob position of every setting including time, repeats, and level along with everything else. As for the overall sound, I thought it sounded outstanding on every setting; the Tape and Analog settings are QUITE convincing. In fact, the analog setting was close to my MXR Carbon Copy, but not close enough to sell the CC. It's built very well, and I never had a single problem with it. Additionally, the Toneprint positions allow you to create (from scratch) your own delay types and sounds and save them to those 4 Toneprint slots using the Toneprint Editor software from TC. Finally, the price was right for the unit; even brand new it's a lot of features for a single unit.

    Now what I didn't like: The pedal was HUGE for only being able to instantly recall only 3 presets. It should have really been called the X3; the fourth foot switch only functions as a tap-tempo. It took up a large amount of space on my board. The Timefactor is smaller and has 100 presets. The Toneprint software is very cumbersome and confusing to use and has a bit of a learning curve (I work in IT for a living too for what it's worth). It became a bit confusing assigning up to 3 parameters to a single knob, and figuring out the meanings of them. The Eventide H9 software by comparison is VERY easy to use. Next, the delay level knob seemed unaffected by the Toneprint. For example, you want a preset (like I did) for Another Brick in the Wall. You create your Toneprint for 100% delay volume for the repeats and send that Toneprint to the 1 slot. Upon recalling that Toneprint, your delay volume is set to whatever your Level knob happens to be set at the time. To summarize, the 3 presets literally save ALL of your settings and knob positions. The 4 Toneprint slots save MOST of your settings, but not all.

    I 'needed' more than 3 presets so I sold the X4 and bought a Timefactor. It's a bit more expense, but you can do a HELL of a lot more with it. It's great having a Women In Love, Cathedral, Nuno's Bumblebee, Another Brick, Run Like Hell, and many other 'truly' instantly recall-able presets. Out of 100 presets, I'm only actually using about 15 of them, but the option is there should I want to make more.

    On the flip side, I don't think ANY other pedal in the X4's price range can do what it does--and for it's price range it can actually accomplish a LOT. It was a great pedal, it just wasn't for me. I really like some TC pedals; love my Hall of Fame Reverb, Ditto Looper, and Polytune and don't ever see myself parting with them. As for the Line 6 you mention: While I've never actually played it, I've never heard or read a bad word about it. Many seem to love it.

    Hope this helps bro!

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  10. #7
    Atomic Punk RRvh1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stealth5150 View Post
    I can actually talk a lot about the TC Flashback X4, what I really liked about it, and why I eventually sold it. I had one for a year or so and ended up selling it for money to buy my Timefactor.

    First what I liked: It does have the ability to save every parameter of your settings per preset. So if you want 1 tape, 1 analog, and 1 digital, it will save the delay type and the knob position of every setting including time, repeats, and level along with everything else. As for the overall sound, I thought it sounded outstanding on every setting; the Tape and Analog settings are QUITE convincing. In fact, the analog setting was close to my MXR Carbon Copy, but not close enough to sell the CC. It's built very well, and I never had a single problem with it. Additionally, the Toneprint positions allow you to create (from scratch) your own delay types and sounds and save them to those 4 Toneprint slots using the Toneprint Editor software from TC. Finally, the price was right for the unit; even brand new it's a lot of features for a single unit.

    Now what I didn't like: The pedal was HUGE for only being able to instantly recall only 3 presets. It should have really been called the X3; the fourth foot switch only functions as a tap-tempo. It took up a large amount of space on my board. The Timefactor is smaller and has 100 presets. The Toneprint software is very cumbersome and confusing to use and has a bit of a learning curve (I work in IT for a living too for what it's worth). It became a bit confusing assigning up to 3 parameters to a single knob, and figuring out the meanings of them. The Eventide H9 software by comparison is VERY easy to use. Next, the delay level knob seemed unaffected by the Toneprint. For example, you want a preset (like I did) for Another Brick in the Wall. You create your Toneprint for 100% delay volume for the repeats and send that Toneprint to the 1 slot. Upon recalling that Toneprint, your delay volume is set to whatever your Level knob happens to be set at the time. To summarize, the 3 presets literally save ALL of your settings and knob positions. The 4 Toneprint slots save MOST of your settings, but not all.

    I 'needed' more than 3 presets so I sold the X4 and bought a Timefactor. It's a bit more expense, but you can do a HELL of a lot more with it. It's great having a Women In Love, Cathedral, Nuno's Bumblebee, Another Brick, Run Like Hell, and many other 'truly' instantly recall-able presets. Out of 100 presets, I'm only actually using about 15 of them, but the option is there should I want to make more.

    On the flip side, I don't think ANY other pedal in the X4's price range can do what it does--and for it's price range it can actually accomplish a LOT. It was a great pedal, it just wasn't for me. I really like some TC pedals; love my Hall of Fame Reverb, Ditto Looper, and Polytune and don't ever see myself parting with them. As for the Line 6 you mention: While I've never actually played it, I've never heard or read a bad word about it. Many seem to love it.

    Hope this helps bro!
    Fantastic post !!! Thanks for taking the time to respond . Much appreciated , bro .

    You certainly gave me a bit more to think about regarding this 'delay mania' craze I have right now . LOL
    "There's too many people on this basketball that's floating around the sun, who are too afraid to allow themselves to FEEL" - Edward Van Halen
    "Van Halen was never about the singer..." - a very wise fan.
    "Embrace the past. Live in the moment but keep your eyes on the future, and keep on moving forward..." - Richie Sambora

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  12. #8
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    Would the H9 in it's Timefactor settings get you the same specs and ability to save the same number of presets?

  13. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by garbeaj View Post
    Would the H9 in it's Timefactor settings get you the same specs and ability to save the same number of presets?
    Yes and no... I don't have an H9, but it will run any algorithm from any Eventide factor pedal. The H9 Max comes with literally every effect algorithm from every factor pedal ever. The other two H9s come with just a few algorithms (2 from each I think) but allow you to purchase any additional algorithm you want from any factor pedal. I think additional algorithms are $20 each. In the Eventide 'world' they call each effect type an algorithm. The Timefactor comes with the 10 delay algorithms (Digital, Analog, Tape...) just like the Pitchfactor comes with 10 harmonizer effects (H949, H3000, Octave...).

    The H9 allows you to save 100 presets regardless of what type they are. You could save 100 delay presets if you wanted, or mix/match between delay, reverb, harmonizer, and modulation. The specs, settings, and sound of any given Eventide effect would be the same between the Timefactor and H9. I think the H9 Max allows you to save 500 presets. It may not be THAT much higher, but it definitely allows you to save more than 100.

    I think of the H9 as an Eventide 'greatest hits' collection--a single pedal that can do everything that any one of their four factor pedals can do.

    The downside (at least for me) for the H9 is you can't run two simultaneous Eventide effects. So if you wanted to use the H949 effect, you can't use it along with a delay--it's only one at a time. To run two, you would either need two H9s or just the individual factor pedals like I have.

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  15. #10
    On Fire Stealth5150's Avatar
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    No problem man, any time! I thought of one other thing too regarding the X4: Once you save a preset to one of the footswitches, should you want to go back at a later time and edit that preset, there is literally no way of knowing what your original knob values were set to for any of the parameters. It's 100% guess work trying to edit a preset unless you wrote down your knob positions at the time you created the preset.

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  17. #11
    Atomic Punk RRvh1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stealth5150 View Post
    No problem man, any time! I thought of one other thing too regarding the X4: Once you save a preset to one of the footswitches, should you want to go back at a later time and edit that preset, there is literally no way of knowing what your original knob values were set to for any of the parameters. It's 100% guess work trying to edit a preset unless you wrote down your knob positions at the time you created the preset.
    That's also good to know !

    I've also been thinking of just using a couple of single delays (3 of them) , and using a splitter/looper box to switch between them . The X4 and the DL4 are options I had , to have the presets saved , and also not worry about knocking the settings out of whack by accident . When I want a Cathedral delay (to mimic Ed's composition and weird noises) , I want it to be there instantly . Same goes for a couple of other delay levels .

    I don't need a thousand presets , just a few . The units I mentioned also allow an expression pedal to give even more options within a certain patch . Also , I'm not too keen on those units that rely on scrolling menus/lithium batteries etc. Looking for digital quality , but with a more basic and generic layout . Hope that made sense !!! LOL
    "There's too many people on this basketball that's floating around the sun, who are too afraid to allow themselves to FEEL" - Edward Van Halen
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    Eruption garbeaj's Avatar
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    Thanks for clarifying that. I saw Pete Thorn demo the H9 and he has TWO of them in his pedalboard. I can't believe how ridiculous it is that you have to have TWO H9s in order to run two Eventide effect algorithms. Those jokers are expensive...I guess I could see buying an H9 Max and one of the most basic model H9 to run two effects at once.

    My understanding is that if you have an H9 Max that it can share the complete range of effects with any other H9. But then you are in it for almost $800 for a Max and a basic H9. It sucks that you can't call up one preset with two effects...like say for a "Women In Love" intro setting where you have detune AND one repeat delay. Or for "Ain't Talkin' 'Bout Love" where you have delay AND reverb...it just boggles my mind that you can't do this for all the money you would have to spend on an H9 Max and a basic H9.
    Last edited by garbeaj; 03.01.15 at 04:38 PM.

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  20. #13
    Atomic Punk RRvh1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garbeaj View Post
    Thanks for clarifying that. I saw Pete Thorn demo the H9 and he has TWO of them in his pedalboard. I can't believe how ridiculous it is that you have to have TWO H9s in order to run two Eventide effect algorithms. Those jokers are expensive...I guess I could see buying an H9 Max and one of the most basic model H9 to run two effects at once.

    My understanding is that if you have an H9 Max that it can share the complete range of effects with any other H9. But then you are in it for almost $800 for a Max and a basic H9. It sucks that you can't call up one preset with two effects...like say for a "Women In Love" intro setting where you have detune AND one repeat delay. Or for "Ain't Talkin' 'Bout Love" where you have delay AND reverb...it just boggles my mind that you can't do this for all the money you would have to spend on an H9 Max and a basic H9.
    The single effect limitations do seem pretty outrageous , for the price of those units .

    Different reasons , but the same principle about why I'm shying away from those types of pedals .
    "There's too many people on this basketball that's floating around the sun, who are too afraid to allow themselves to FEEL" - Edward Van Halen
    "Van Halen was never about the singer..." - a very wise fan.
    "Embrace the past. Live in the moment but keep your eyes on the future, and keep on moving forward..." - Richie Sambora

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    Lots of good info here!

    Might have to try out some of these pedals. I have a vintage h3000 but Its only seen use in mixing records not in the front of a guitar setup. Might have to unpatch it and try it on the guitar.

    Has anyone used a h3k here on their rig? Any pointers as to setup and which presets to kick off a F.U.C.K era type sound?

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    On Fire Stealth5150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James the 2nd View Post
    Lots of good info here!

    Might have to try out some of these pedals. I have a vintage h3000 but Its only seen use in mixing records not in the front of a guitar setup. Might have to unpatch it and try it on the guitar.

    Has anyone used a h3k here on their rig? Any pointers as to setup and which presets to kick off a F.U.C.K era type sound?
    I don't have an H3000, but for what it's worth my Pitchfactor has the Micropitch algorithm from the H3000 built in. These are the settings that get me an exact F.U.C.K./Balance sound to my ears.

    Mix: 75% (I'm running in stereo, if you have a true W/D/W this should be set to 100%)
    Pitch A: +9%
    Pitch B: -9%
    Delay A: 3ms
    Delay B: 6ms
    Mod Depth: 10
    Speed: 5
    Feedback: 5
    Tone: 0/neutral

    Many people will advise the delays of the pitch shift be set to 250/500 but I don't fully understand that. That creates such an extreme delay effect and doesn't sound like EVH's tone at all on those two albums. With those settings you pretty much get your dry signal, then an echo of the +9 shifted pitch followed by an echo of the -9 pitch. Using 3/6 ms allows all three signals to blend together to get you 'that sound.' -all just my opinion, though.

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