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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
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    Default US cannot win war against ISIS by killing, they need job opportunities State Dept

    http://rt.com/usa/233275-war-against...opportunities/

    Were killing a lot of them, and were going to keep killing more of them. So are the Egyptians, so are the Jordanians theyre in this fight with us, Harf said. But we cannot win this war by killing them. We cannot kill our way out of this war. We need in the medium to longer term to go after the root causes that leads people to join these groups, whether its a lack of opportunity for jobs, whether

    "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack. -- Gen. George S. Patton

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    Hang 'Em High sickman's Avatar
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    They are delusional. Their "job" is to kill all non Muslims. That's all they care about. Our "JOB" is to kill them before they have the chance to kill us. This is the dopiest administration ever. Let me guess, they need healthcare too since every job should come with health care coverage. Fucking dopes.
    I used to jog but the ice cubes kept falling out of my glass.

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  4. #3
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    she's not wrong on the first part. You're not gonna win this war by killing them. For everyone you kill another seems to arrive to take his place. But at some point the west is going to have to just say to hell with that part of the world. Let them deal with it. And if they can't and they try to become an official threat to the west then you blow them off the face of the earth.

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    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sickman View Post
    They are delusional. Their "job" is to kill all non Muslims. That's all they care about. Our "JOB" is to kill them before they have the chance to kill us. This is the dopiest administration ever. Let me guess, they need healthcare too since every job should come with health care coverage. Fucking dopes.
    for every non-muslim they kill, they're taking out 5 of their own. These guys aren't that picky.

  6. #5
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    12.13.17 @ 08:59 AM
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    Yes, the more poor, uneducated young men there are in these countries, the longer the recruiting list.

    But there's not a lot we can do to control that. And I just can't understand how they expect to push policies that make energy more expensive, yet tell us the solution to issues in Iraq and Afghanistan are in making people richer. Those two things work against each other.

    Terrorism is a tactic. Most worrisome is that the best definition of terrorism comes from Ms. Harf's department. Terrorism is "premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents, usually intended to influence an audience," yet our leaders have a hard time calling the Taliban or ISIS terrorists.

    These tactics are not limited to the poor, even if poverty is a factor. The Tsarnaev brothers were not rich by US standards, but they were by global standards. Tamerlan had gone to junior college and Dzhokhar was attending Dartmouth. How would job opportunities have stopped them?

    They wouldn't have.
    Last edited by lovemachine97(Version 2); 02.18.15 at 01:13 PM.

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    Baluchitherium
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    Eh...I see what she's saying but that's a broad, sweeping oversimplification. Not entirely inaccurate, but...well...eh.

    To simplify it - and who knows...I might even be wrong - but from what I have read and seen, Islamic fundamentalism in Saudi Arabia really got traction and growth when in the 80's SA pumped a shit ton of money into their economy for infrastructure and education. All these great improvements were built and all these dudes went out and got these great degrees. Well, they expanded too fast too soon and lots of those improvements went to waste. Unemployment hits all these young, energetic males who don't know what to do with themselves. Seeing an opportunity, radical clerics shouted their message from the proverbial rooftops to these disaffected males who had nothing to do. Hatred for the West went off the charts and the rest is history.

    Dave's Dreidel...I'd love your input on this. I'm not wrong, but I'm way oversimplifying this, just like Harf did. Heck, most of you have more brains than me...sound off!

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    Atomic Punk CaboChris's Avatar
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    So how many have to die before we "blow them off the face of the Earth"?

    Why can't we just do it already and be done with it?

    Seriously, we seem to have the patience of Job.

    They already ARE an official threat of the West.

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    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    I think we forget that terrorism is a tactic used by those cannot fight a traditional war. So why we have billions wrapped up in planes, aircraft carriers, tanks, and submarines, they aren't as useful as they otherwise would be in a traditional war. That's the entire point of terrorist acts.

    I mean, we don't need stealth technology in most of this, which is why we have attached things to the outside of our stealth fleet, "unstealthing" them. Because it's not like ISIS has a sophisticated radio detection and ranging system.

    So as long as these attacks are successful, they are not stopping. Now, we can do out best to keep them unsophisticated, in low numbers, and with low casualties. But to stop them, the entire ideology has to die. How do you kill an ideology?

    That's the question that she is trying to answer here, but it doesn't do us any good in the meantime.

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    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    So how many have to die before we "blow them off the face of the Earth"?

    Why can't we just do it already and be done with it?

    Seriously, we seem to have the patience of Job.

    They already ARE an official threat of the West.
    I think we've killed 100 of them for every one they've killed of us. So it's a little rich for us to say we have the patience of Job. One can make the argument that we created most of this mess to begin with. Maybe the best thing we can do is leave and let them settle their own issues.

  11. #10
    Atomic Punk CaboChris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    How do you kill an ideology?
    With another ideology:

    Brute force.

    We can't do this forever.

    Do we want a slow, drawn out war, over decades or should we just get it over with?

    Unfortunately, WW3 is on the horizon and we better start getting our minds wrapped around that fact.

  12. #11
    Eruption Arson's Avatar
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    It would help if people would actually read the quran.

    They're more afraid of their belief than anything we have done.

  13. #12
    Atomic Punk CaboChris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    I think we've killed 100 of them for every one they've killed of us. So it's a little rich for us to say we have the patience of Job. One can make the argument that we created most of this mess to begin with. Maybe the best thing we can do is leave and let them settle their own issues.
    Not gonna happen.

    If we created it, now we must kill it.

    It's not PC, but I for one, don't want generations of Americans or innocent muslims to get killed.

    Host countries will never deal with with groups like ISIS. Again, this can't go on forever.

    Endless drone strikes, endless beheadings, etc...

    Is that the answer? Or are we hoping that somehow radical Islam will reform themselves? THAT'S rich.

    All things must pass....isnt that what Geoege Harrison said?

    This has to end someday....

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    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    With another ideology:

    Brute force.

    We can't do this forever.

    Do we want a slow, drawn out war, over decades or should we just get it over with?

    Unfortunately, WW3 is on the horizon and we better start getting our minds wrapped around that fact.
    I don't think brute force can kill thought, though. It could diminish it to low levels, but I don't think we'll ever be rid of it unless you literally kill every single person in the Middle East. But I don't think the rest of the world would like that, and it might cause other problems with other countries. I am in favor of the "all or nothing" policy. Either we do just that or we leave and just let the countries there figure it out.

    Right now, we're droning them. But drones are not surgical. They kill anyone around. And often times that means civilians. We've actually turned people who were pro-West in these countries against us after killing innocent civilians.

    A lot of the average people in these countries are not all that fierce about Islam, they don't like these extremist groups, and they actually like Western culture. We should be working on that end instead of just killing them.

    So I think it's a case of all or nothing, and nothing is probably the better choice. Because we keep fucking it up there.

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    Atomic Punk CaboChris's Avatar
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    We can't just "leave it" if Americans are getting their heads cut off.

    It's naive to think, that if we just leave them alone...it will all go away.

    That's a strategy I don't want our government to try and they won't because that will be seen as capitulation at home and over seas. That will give the terrorists the propaganda that they defeated the "Great Satan".

    Embolden them to kill more Americans.

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    Eruption Arson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post

    That's a strategy I don't want our government to try and they won't because that will be seen as capitulation at home and over seas. That will give the terrorists the propaganda that they defeated the "Great Satan".

    Embolden them to kill more Americans.
    Bingo

 

 

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