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Thread: The Remasters

  1. #1
    Romeo Delight
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    Default The Remasters

    Is there any legitimate, non-pecuniary purpose to remastering the first 6 albums again? What is wrong with the 2000 remasters? I would genuinely welcome the input of audiophiles on this question.

    Maybe someday my wish for 5150, OU812 and FUCK to be remastered will come true, but that's another story....

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    Quote Originally Posted by dart93 View Post
    Is there any legitimate, non-pecuniary purpose to remastering the first 6 albums again? What is wrong with the 2000 remasters? I would genuinely welcome the input of audiophiles on this question.

    Maybe someday my wish for 5150, OU812 and FUCK to be remastered will come true, but that's another story....
    To some people it won't be noticeable. To others it might. I bought Rush's remasters in 1997 and when they released the Sectors boxsets a couple years ago I wasn't sure if I was going to get them in spite of being a Rush completist, but I'm glad I did. They do sound better. But it was also a great package also containing some 5.1 DVDs. (which are now coming out on bluray).

    Rush: Sectors is 3 separate six-disc box sets. Each “Sector” contains five of Rush's 15 Mercury albums in chronological order, all audio was mastered at 96kHz/24-bit and digitally remastered for optimal quality. In addition, each volume includes an exclusive booklet packed with unpublished photos, original album lyrics and credits, and features one album from each set specially remixed on DVD in high resolution 96kHz/24-bit, 5.1 surround sound and stereo, compatible with both DVD-Audio players and DVD-Video players. Each album is packaged in a replica vinyl mini-jacket of the original album release with all three box sets forming a Rush CD road case.




    The other reason to get more remasters would be to get a bunch of studio and live bonus tracks like on the Judas Priest remasters and many others.


    Unfortunately, I don't envision Van Halen doing any of this. So I'm very skeptical.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snowdog View Post
    To some people it won't be noticeable. To others it might. I bought Rush's remasters in 1997 and when they released the Sectors boxsets a couple years ago I wasn't sure if I was going to get them in spite of being a Rush completist, but I'm glad I did. They do sound better. But it was also a great package also containing some 5.1 DVDs. (which are now coming out on bluray).

    Rush: Sectors is 3 separate six-disc box sets. Each “Sector” contains five of Rush's 15 Mercury albums in chronological order, all audio was mastered at 96kHz/24-bit and digitally remastered for optimal quality. In addition, each volume includes an exclusive booklet packed with unpublished photos, original album lyrics and credits, and features one album from each set specially remixed on DVD in high resolution 96kHz/24-bit, 5.1 surround sound and stereo, compatible with both DVD-Audio players and DVD-Video players. Each album is packaged in a replica vinyl mini-jacket of the original album release with all three box sets forming a Rush CD road case.




    The other reason would be to get a bunch of studio and live bonus tracks like on the Judas Priest remasters and many others.


    Unfortunately, I don't envision Van Halen doing any of this. So I'm very skeptical.
    Dude...you always find a way to insert Rush.


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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    Dude...you always find a way to insert Rush.

    And usually Judas Priest!







    If there was more Van Halen product to discuss I probably wouldn't, lol!


    Seriously though, I bring them up all the time not just because I love their music, but because to me they do everything right that Van Halen does wrong when it comes to fans and products. They make a great point of reference for what Van Halen fans should be getting!

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    Quote Originally Posted by snowdog View Post
    And usually Judas Priest!







    If there was more Van Halen product to discuss I probably wouldn't, lol!


    Seriously though, I bring them up all the time not just because I love their music, but because to me they do everything right that Van Halen does wrong when it comes to fans and products. They make a great point of reference for what Van Halen fans should be getting!
    I know.

    I'm a casual fan of Rush.

    They're exemplary in every way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    I know.

    I'm a casual fan of Rush.

    They're exemplary in every way.
    And yet their forums are full of people who bitch more than anyone here. Maybe that's why I want to talk about Rush some around here sometimes, the negativity from so many of their hardcores is unbearable. Nothing is good enough. Totally spoiled.

    But back to VH, it's just conditional to me. It is possible that a new series of remasters could be worth it to me. Although I thought the 2000 ones were really good. The difference compared to the original CD releases was pretty shocking. Things like the beginning of Women in Love..... damn, I remember just replaying that part over and over cranked up. It sounded SO much better than before. I doubt they could be improved that much again. But any sort of extras would sure help. I've got an open mind about them for now.

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    That may be the best question I've seen here for quite some time, dart93. If they're doing what Page did with the Zep remasters, adapting it to current tech, then great. But here there seems to be no legitimate reason to remaster what has been remastered. Until they tell me something different, I will pass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleCrappy View Post
    That may be the best question I've seen here for quite some time, dart93. If they're doing what Page did with the Zep remasters, adapting it to current tech, then great. But here there seems to be no legitimate reason to remaster what has been remastered. Until they tell me something different, I will pass.
    Yeah, LZ's another great example. Or look at the Pink Floyd Immersion series. Holy fuck, super elaborate. Like I said, I'm going to wait and see, but if the new VH remasters are just slightly louder in the same packaging with no bonus audio then there's not much point even for a completist.

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    Unless there is unreleased music on the remasters then I think they have wasted their time and money as the 2000 remasters sound just awesome … Although they did miss out on Fair Warning and Diver Down so I will be picking those up … on vinyl …

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    From an "audiophile" point of view, there's a lot that can be improved about the 2000 remasters. They are brickwalled, meaning excessive amounts of limiting and compression have been applied (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war). They also feature HDCD encoding, which improves their "resolution" to 20-bit on suitable hardware, but actually slightly decreases quality on standard 16-bit playback equipment. I doubt the new remasters will feature HDCD encoding.

    The (now pulled) hdtracks hi-res remasters, in comparison, sound just as fresh and clear, but avoid the excessive limiting and compression of the 2000 CDs. I guess the transfers used for hdtracks are very similar to what will be used for the upcoming pono hi-res release of the six pack, maybe even the exact same files. If one were to dither those transfers down to CD resolution, then I think those would be very, very good remasters and would warrant another remastered CD release. Those would also be a suitable basis for a itunes re-release, as those new files could then be marketed as "mastered for itunes". The "mastered for itunes" (https://www.apple.com/de/itunes/mastered-for-itunes/) specifications prohibit excessive limiting. I doubt the 2000 remasters could be reworked to comply with "mastered for itunes" standards.

    So, in short, there is still room for improvement over the 2000 remasters: A fresh transfer using the advancement in analog-digital conversion technology since the eighties, but at the same time avoiding the pitfalls of brickwalling. If Warner (or whoever puts out the remasters) were to go that way, I'd say that wouldn't be a total ripoff (as in: releasing just another repackaged version of the same old stuff) kind of deal. I just don't think that's what we can expect. The new remasters will probably be even more brickwalled than the 2000 remasters. That's how it's done nowadays, as stupid as that is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moko View Post
    From an "audiophile" point of view, there's a lot that can be improved about the 2000 remasters. They are brickwalled, meaning excessive amounts of limiting and compression have been applied (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war). They also feature HDCD encoding, which improves their "resolution" to 20-bit on suitable hardware, but actually slightly decreases quality on standard 16-bit playback equipment. I doubt the new remasters will feature HDCD encoding.

    The (now pulled) hdtracks hi-res remasters, in comparison, sound just as fresh and clear, but avoid the excessive limiting and compression of the 2000 CDs. I guess the transfers used for hdtracks are very similar to what will be used for the upcoming pono hi-res release of the six pack, maybe even the exact same files. If one were to dither those transfers down to CD resolution, then I think those would be very, very good remasters and would warrant another remastered CD release. Those would also be a suitable basis for a itunes re-release, as those new files could then be marketed as "mastered for itunes". The "mastered for itunes" (https://www.apple.com/de/itunes/mastered-for-itunes/) specifications prohibit excessive limiting. I doubt the 2000 remasters could be reworked to comply with "mastered for itunes" standards.

    So, in short, there is still room for improvement over the 2000 remasters: A fresh transfer using the advancement in analog-digital conversion technology since the eighties, but at the same time avoiding the pitfalls of brickwalling. If Warner (or whoever puts out the remasters) were to go that way, I'd say that wouldn't be a total ripoff (as in: releasing just another repackaged version of the same old stuff) kind of deal. I just don't think that's what we can expect. The new remasters will probably be even more brickwalled than the 2000 remasters. That's how it's done nowadays, as stupid as that is.
    “Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants to see us happy.” - Benjamin Franklin

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    I'm not trying to be snarky here, ejmaes67, but with your wtf emoticon, what concerns do you have with moko's post? I'm genuinely interested because I haven't decided on these remasters yet.

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    Sorry. Zero interest in another remaster. Typical VH logic. Re-remaster the albums that don't need it, and ignore the ones that desperately need it - (5150/OU812).

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    Quote Originally Posted by bjk View Post
    Sorry. Zero interest in another remaster. Typical VH logic. Re-remaster the albums that don't need it, and ignore the ones that desperately need it - (5150/OU812).
    So true. And with how they mastered ADKOT, I have no confidence in their ability to do a good job on the six pack, which really can't be improved upon anyway. Shameless cash grab I'll have no part in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moko View Post
    From an "audiophile" point of view, there's a lot that can be improved about the 2000 remasters. They are brickwalled, meaning excessive amounts of limiting and compression have been applied (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war). They also feature HDCD encoding, which improves their "resolution" to 20-bit on suitable hardware, but actually slightly decreases quality on standard 16-bit playback equipment. I doubt the new remasters will feature HDCD encoding.

    The (now pulled) hdtracks hi-res remasters, in comparison, sound just as fresh and clear, but avoid the excessive limiting and compression of the 2000 CDs. I guess the transfers used for hdtracks are very similar to what will be used for the upcoming pono hi-res release of the six pack, maybe even the exact same files. If one were to dither those transfers down to CD resolution, then I think those would be very, very good remasters and would warrant another remastered CD release. Those would also be a suitable basis for a itunes re-release, as those new files could then be marketed as "mastered for itunes". The "mastered for itunes" (https://www.apple.com/de/itunes/mastered-for-itunes/) specifications prohibit excessive limiting. I doubt the 2000 remasters could be reworked to comply with "mastered for itunes" standards.

    So, in short, there is still room for improvement over the 2000 remasters: A fresh transfer using the advancement in analog-digital conversion technology since the eighties, but at the same time avoiding the pitfalls of brickwalling. If Warner (or whoever puts out the remasters) were to go that way, I'd say that wouldn't be a total ripoff (as in: releasing just another repackaged version of the same old stuff) kind of deal. I just don't think that's what we can expect. The new remasters will probably be even more brickwalled than the 2000 remasters. That's how it's done nowadays, as stupid as that is.
    What is the dynamic advantage of taking the original analog masters and transferring them to 24-bit when it will be released on CD as 16-bit? I am no audiophile, but I know enough to know the limits of the human ear and how 44.1kHz fairs against a higher sample rate in scientific tests.

    But how does going from 24-bit to 16-bit give us an improvement in dynamics? Doesn't the improvement disappear at 16-bit? I honestly don't know. Seems to me that not brickwalling at 16-bit would be just as desirable, right? I realize there is a much lower dynamic range at that bit rate, but like I said, I know very little about this.
    Last edited by lovemachine97(Version 2); 02.16.15 at 11:48 PM.

 

 

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