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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
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    Default 17 year old shot dead by police.

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    Baluchitherium
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    Quote Originally Posted by hagarfn View Post
    I feel dirty even clicking on a site with that name but that is a very sad situation. Mental illness is more common than a cold now and there has got to be something done about getting fast and easy help for these types. I don't mean calling around for Dr's in your plan for 2 fucking months to see if they have room for new patients, I mean a 7-11 type place for mental illness on every corner. This world is grinding people up at an alarming rate and it looks to only be getting worse.
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    Gird your loins Daisy Hill's Avatar
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    suicide by cop

    I feel sad for the family, sad for the girl and sad for the officers who had to make such a terrible decision

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    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    She was reportedly shot 4 times by 3 officers because she was allegedly brandishing a knife. There are times I wonder why police carry a taser at all if they never use one. If there is ever a situation where a taser makes more sense than a gun, it's when a 17-yr old girl approaches 3 male policemen with a knife in a police station.

    This is not the only recent instance of police killing mentally ill people either.

    On January 5th of last year, the parents of a schizophrenic son called police to help calm him down (he wanted to fight his mother). Two policemen showed up and began talking with him. He was coming. A third cop from a different jurisdiction showed up, said, "We don't have time for this. Tase that kid now. Let's get him out of here." The kid turned to run after the threat, the officers tased him, got on top of him, he started to fight them, and they shot and killed him. http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/07/justic...a-teen-killed/

    On March 16, 2014, police approached a mentally ill man for illegal camping. His death was caught on video. James Boyd was living in a different reality where he was a federal agent and wouldn't take orders. However, in the video, he appears to finally surrender. He turns and grabs his stuff to leave and surrender, so the police obviously believe that's the best time to throw a flashbang at him. Disoriented, he pulls out two knives. Still 30 feet away, police shoot and kill him. Two of the cops have been charged with murder, including one who is on tape before he arrived on scene saying he was going to shoot him. http://reason.com/blog/2015/01/12/al...d-james-boyd-c

    On April 13th, a 53-yr old woman called police saying that she was suicidal and might goad cops into killing her. When the police arrived, she was holding a bat. So they opened fire and killed her. The cops who answered the call and shot her were trained in mental health crisis management. http://www.mercurynews.com/pacifica/...reasing-police

    In August, a mentally ill woman holding a drill was shot and killed when police mistook the drill for an uzi. The responding officers were trained in mental health crisis management. http://abc7news.com/news/woman-dies-...n-jose/259937/

    There are several other incidents that happened where the mentally ill person had some sort of weapon, like a hammer, and they ended up dead. But something is breaking down when mentally ill people end up dead when the cops are called to help them. I am not necessarily blaming the cops, though the tendency for them to go straight for their guns is at least slightly disturbing.

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    Baluchitherium
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    She was reportedly shot 4 times by 3 officers because she was allegedly brandishing a knife. There are times I wonder why police carry a taser at all if they never use one. If there is ever a situation where a taser makes more sense than a gun, it's when a 17-yr old girl approaches 3 male policemen with a knife in a police station.

    This is not the only recent instance of police killing mentally ill people either.

    On January 5th of last year, the parents of a schizophrenic son called police to help calm him down (he wanted to fight his mother). Two policemen showed up and began talking with him. He was coming. A third cop from a different jurisdiction showed up, said, "We don't have time for this. Tase that kid now. Let's get him out of here." The kid turned to run after the threat, the officers tased him, got on top of him, he started to fight them, and they shot and killed him. http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/07/justic...a-teen-killed/

    On March 16, 2014, police approached a mentally ill man for illegal camping. His death was caught on video. James Boyd was living in a different reality where he was a federal agent and wouldn't take orders. However, in the video, he appears to finally surrender. He turns and grabs his stuff to leave and surrender, so the police obviously believe that's the best time to throw a flashbang at him. Disoriented, he pulls out two knives. Still 30 feet away, police shoot and kill him. Two of the cops have been charged with murder, including one who is on tape before he arrived on scene saying he was going to shoot him. http://reason.com/blog/2015/01/12/al...d-james-boyd-c

    On April 13th, a 53-yr old woman called police saying that she was suicidal and might goad cops into killing her. When the police arrived, she was holding a bat. So they opened fire and killed her. The cops who answered the call and shot her were trained in mental health crisis management. http://www.mercurynews.com/pacifica/...reasing-police

    In August, a mentally ill woman holding a drill was shot and killed when police mistook the drill for an uzi. The responding officers were trained in mental health crisis management. http://abc7news.com/news/woman-dies-...n-jose/259937/

    There are several other incidents that happened where the mentally ill person had some sort of weapon, like a hammer, and they ended up dead. But something is breaking down when mentally ill people end up dead when the cops are called to help them. I am not necessarily blaming the cops, though the tendency for them to go straight for their guns is at least slightly disturbing.
    There is also a story from 2006 in which 2 6 foot plus tall police officers shot a 5'2" 18 year old girl 15 times because she was brandishing a knife. They were aquitted, which is beyond fucking belief, and I think allowed to return to work but the residents wouldn't have it. It's disgusting what is going on and the solution is so obvious, make all cops wear a camera and be recorded.
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    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dick Punch View Post
    There is also a story from 2006 in which 2 6 foot plus tall police officers shot a 5'2" 18 year old girl 15 times because she was brandishing a knife. They were aquitted, which is beyond fucking belief, and I think allowed to return to work but the residents wouldn't have it. It's disgusting what is going on and the solution is so obvious, make all cops wear a camera and be recorded.
    I am a big proponent of this, but unless the cameras are just not allowed to be turned off, I don't think it is the be all/end all. Too many cameras have their footage go missing, and too many officers "forget" to turn them on.

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    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    i find it hard to be critical of cops on this sort of case. The "you could have used a taser" or "you could have shot at a leg or an arm". Someone comes at a cop with a knife, you stop them and the best way to stop them is to shoot at the middle of their body. Cops want to go home at the end of their shift.

    The girl obviously had mental issues and this is a terrible story but it's a more terribly story if a cop gets stabbed first and then she takes 4 bullets.

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    Cops will use deadly force if they believe their life or anyone else's life is in danger. An EDP with a weapon is more likely to behave in a way that will result in them concluding there is a danger.

  11. #9
    Baluchitherium
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    I am a big proponent of this, but unless the cameras are just not allowed to be turned off, I don't think it is the be all/end all. Too many cameras have their footage go missing, and too many officers "forget" to turn them on.
    Precisely, closed circuit and un-editable from the cops themselves. It will save cities money in the long run by keeping cops honest and recording the true events, the others will fall by the wayside and be busted out of the force.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dick Punch View Post
    Precisely, closed circuit and un-editable from the cops themselves. It will save cities money in the long run by keeping cops honest and recording the true events, the others will fall by the wayside and be busted out of the force.
    No more flirting your way out of a ticket...

  13. #11
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    i find it hard to be critical of cops on this sort of case. The "you could have used a taser" or "you could have shot at a leg or an arm". Someone comes at a cop with a knife, you stop them and the best way to stop them is to shoot at the middle of their body. Cops want to go home at the end of their shift.

    The girl obviously had mental issues and this is a terrible story but it's a more terribly story if a cop gets stabbed first and then she takes 4 bullets.
    And this is where I go off the reservation for most people, as I believe that this is one thing that cops and soldiers do have in common. A police officer's number one priority is to protect, serve, and protect our civil rights. Sometimes that means getting injured or dying.

    True, in practice, police are probably going to put their needs in front of upholding the law, but I think it is worth noting that police don't take an oath promising to get home at night.

    Now, don't get me wrong, I don't think cops should be lying on railroad tracks to save people, but I do think that, for example in this case, it is their job to do every single thing they possibly can to disarm and calm down a 17-yr old girl with a knife. It is hard for me to believe that 3 male cops armed with superior strength, superior numbers, tasers, and batons, could not have apprehended this girl without shooting her. That's what I am talking about.

  14. #12
    Atomic Punk
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    it is their job to do every single thing they possibly can to disarm and calm down a 17-yr old girl with a knife. It is hard for me to believe that 3 male cops armed with superior strength, superior numbers, tasers, and batons, could not have apprehended this girl without shooting her. That's what I am talking about.
    Yeah, I'm struggling with this too. The fact that they haven't released the tape is curious to me too.
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    Atomic Punk
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    i find it hard to be critical of cops on this sort of case. The "you could have used a taser" or "you could have shot at a leg or an arm". Someone comes at a cop with a knife, you stop them and the best way to stop them is to shoot at the middle of their body. Cops want to go home at the end of their shift.

    The girl obviously had mental issues and this is a terrible story but it's a more terribly story if a cop gets stabbed first and then she takes 4 bullets.
    Agreed.
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  16. #14
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    And this is where I go off the reservation for most people, as I believe that this is one thing that cops and soldiers do have in common. A police officer's number one priority is to protect, serve, and protect our civil rights. Sometimes that means getting injured or dying.
    it doesn't mean you should allow yourself to get stabbed to protect nobody except the person doing the stabbing.

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    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 11:38 PM
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    Here's the surveillance video sans audio. Apparently, there is an audio track; police decided not to release it.



    For the life of me, I can't figure out why the video starts in the middle, but if you want to see what happens, the girl is at the window at the beginning of the video and the first officer appears at 7:38.

    At 8 minutes is where the struggle starts. The thing is that the initial officer, Glenn Derr, has her subdued after the struggle. They go back and forth with her fighting him, but eventually, at 10:30, she is pinned on the ground with her arms behind her back. For whatever reason, Officer Derr gets off of her back and draws his gun. A second officer, Gene Duffy, shows up at the 10:50 mark, and they let her get up. Again, I don't understand this. At 11:05, a third officer, Grace Bagley, shows up. Within 5 seconds of her arrival, the girl, Coignard, heads towards Derr.

    This is where the distance of the camera is a problem. The cops claim she had a butcher knife at this point and she was coming at him with it. They also claim the words, "I have a gun" were written on her hand. Finally, they claim that before they shoot her, they tried to taser her. Before she is shot, however, her arm, the one presumably holding a knife, goes down. So if this is where she was tased, it seems like it did have an effect--she put down the knife.

    But what is inexplicable to me is that if she is fighting with police and claiming to have a gun, and she was pinned on her back with her hands behind her back, why was she not checked for weapons and why was she allowed to get back up?

    But the bigger problem for me here is they make no attempt to try and save her life. EMTs don't show up until the 17:00 mark and one of the cops just sits there and points at her.

    Why in the world would they subdue her and then allow her to get up? And what is on the audio that they don't want us to hear?

    EDIT: Here's some context, the police point of view:

    ... Dingler says Coignard picked up the phone in the police lobby and asked for help, but wouldn't say what the problem was. Officer Glenn Derr observed written on Coignard's hand "I have a Gun." When Derr tried to subdue her, he saw a large butcher knife in her waistband that she was reaching for.

    Officer Duffie arrived and attempted to use his taser on Coignard, but it didn't work. Coignard charged Derr, and he fired his gun three times while Officer Bagley fired twice. Coignard was hit four times.

    She was taken to Good Shepherd Medical Center where she was pronounced dead
    ...

    http://www.cbs19.tv/story/27964754/l...-butcher-knife
    Last edited by lovemachine97(Version 2); 01.29.15 at 12:16 PM.

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