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  1. #1
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Default Target announces plans to exit Canadian market

    well that was fast. Target came into Canada two years ago with such high expectations but they've gotten absolutely destroyed in the market so i guess this shouldn't be a huge shock.

    Target Corp said Thursday it would shut down its Canadian operations, ending long-term speculation over the viability of the struggling business.

    Target Canada has 133 stores and employs some 17,600 people. Target Corp said it would report $5.4 billion in pre-tax losses on discontinued operations in the fourth quarter.

    "After a thorough review of our Canadian performance and careful consideration of the implications of all options, we were unable to find a realistic scenario that would get Target Canada to profitability until at least 2021," CEO Brian Cornell said in a statement.

    In the same statement, Target also said it expected to report fourth-quarter comparable-store sales growth of 3 percent, versus its prior forecast of 2 percent growth.
    http://www.cnbc.com/id/102292447#.

  2. #2
    Baluchitherium
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    "Alcoholism, is like, the only disease you can get yelled at for having" - Mitch
    Hedberg

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    Forum Frontman fudd's Avatar
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    Turn em back into richways.

  4. #4
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    That's a HUGE gaffe. I wonder what the deal was with pricing...? Where they trying to brand themselves as more upscale in Canada?

    I know a TON of people who love Target. I'd venture to say that every wedding I have been in, the couple has, among other places, been registered at Target.

    The first SuperTarget in California opened down the street from me. For the life of me, I don't see how it makes money. It's fucking huge and rarely busy. I went there once on a "black Friday" just to pick up a few things (not Christmas related) and it wasn't busy at all.

    They have 30 checkstands and I have never seen more than half a dozen open at any given time.

    In my area, for about 3000,000 people we used to have two Targets and two Walmarts. On top of the two original Targets, we now have two SuperTargets. Walmart closed one of its stores and two SuperWalmarts have opened up. THREE more SuperWalmarts are on the way. One is held up in litigation (there's some lawyer who makes a living disputing nearly every Walmart built in CA), one is in dispute over location, and the other is nearly built already.

    What's interesting in light of all of this is that both Walmart and Target are looking at expansion in smaller stores. Target is opening CityTarget and TargetExpress stores, while Walmart is also looking at opening smaller stores, including some called WalmartExpress.

    Seems like Target is throwing stuff at a dartboard. Canada? Let's try there. Big stores? Let's do it. Regular stores? Let's do that. Small stores? Alright, the dart landed on City, so we have to call it CityTarget. Ooh, another small store, but this one landed on Express. Let's call it TargetExpress.

    At some point, your brand is meaningless if you keep changing it.

  5. #5
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    i think the biggest issue was that Walmart is already established and is the major player in discount stores here. Target announces they're coming to Canada and they are painted as competiton for Walmart. They arrive. People check out their stores and find out that (1) they are more expensive and (2) that have major inventory issues (shelves half empty reported all over the place). Also while Walmart built their own stores and took the time to make them destinations for customers, Target tended to take over retail locations that were previously held by the failed Zellers line of stores. So they take over crappy real estate, put in new stores that can't compete on price or merchandise with their chief competition and are then shocked when they fail? Whoever was running this operation had their head up their ass.

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  7. #6
    Atomic Punk RRvh1's Avatar
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    Zellers was an iconic store . Many were sad to see them leave and be taken over by Target . I've only been into the local Target location twice , but both times it was like a ghost town . Huge store with about 6 patrons ... The writing was on the wall . I'm actually surprised they stayed this long .
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    i think the biggest issue was that Walmart is already established and is the major player in discount stores here. Target announces they're coming to Canada and they are painted as competiton for Walmart. They arrive. People check out their stores and find out that (1) they are more expensive and (2) that have major inventory issues (shelves half empty reported all over the place). Also while Walmart built their own stores and took the time to make them destinations for customers, Target tended to take over retail locations that were previously held by the failed Zellers line of stores. So they take over crappy real estate, put in new stores that can't compete on price or merchandise with their chief competition and are then shocked when they fail? Whoever was running this operation had their head up their ass.
    Absolutely.

    Canadians were actually excited for Target to open in Canada - since they cross the border to shop at Target anyway, but they blew it in every possible way. It's amazing how supposed retail industry professionals could fuck up so badly.

  9. #8
    Baluchitherium Scott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    i think the biggest issue was that Walmart is already established and is the major player in discount stores here. Target announces they're coming to Canada and they are painted as competiton for Walmart. They arrive. People check out their stores and find out that (1) they are more expensive and (2) that have major inventory issues (shelves half empty reported all over the place). Also while Walmart built their own stores and took the time to make them destinations for customers, Target tended to take over retail locations that were previously held by the failed Zellers line of stores. So they take over crappy real estate, put in new stores that can't compete on price or merchandise with their chief competition and are then shocked when they fail? Whoever was running this operation had their head up their ass.
    Your points are accurate. However, as someone who works in the industry, Target failed exclusively for one reason, poor management. They were given a blank check to open doors...gutted stores so they were basically brand new. However, they failed to listen to Canadian vendors and assumed their way was the only and best way.

    Yes, they were premium priced versus Walmart - however, I was never expecting to pay Walmart prices. I always anticipated paying a modest premium.

    If Zellers could make a go of it - and turn profit, again, ZERO reason why Target failed.

    I personally enjoyed shopping there - and found it to be a much better experience than Walmart. I feel terrible for the 17,600 employees now out of work. However, I also feel bad for the Canadian retail landscape as having only one major mass merchant is TERRIBLE for consumers. Lets hope someone sees this as a huge opportunity and embraces it.
    Winners come and go; legends are forever.

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  11. #9
    Atomic Punk RRvh1's Avatar
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    ^^^ Very true , Scott .
    We've all seen shitty management wreck things in the past . Things that look good on paper often aren't , and ultimately , their business model didn't pan out .
    I feel bad for the 17 600 employees who just got this wake up call to start the new year ...
    "There's too many people on this basketball that's floating around the sun, who are too afraid to allow themselves to FEEL" - Edward Van Halen
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  12. #10
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott View Post
    Your points are accurate. However, as someone who works in the industry, Target failed exclusively for one reason, poor management. They were given a blank check to open doors...gutted stores so they were basically brand new. However, they failed to listen to Canadian vendors and assumed their way was the only and best way.

    Yes, they were premium priced versus Walmart - however, I was never expecting to pay Walmart prices. I always anticipated paying a modest premium.

    If Zellers could make a go of it - and turn profit, again, ZERO reason why Target failed.

    I personally enjoyed shopping there - and found it to be a much better experience than Walmart. I feel terrible for the 17,600 employees now out of work. However, I also feel bad for the Canadian retail landscape as having only one major mass merchant is TERRIBLE for consumers. Lets hope someone sees this as a huge opportunity and embraces it.
    of course, this is completely on management.

    I disagree with you on there only being one mass merchant. I think the model has changed dramatically with Loblaws really entering the Walmart market in many ways - I know that the Fortinos stores are entering much of the Walmart space now offering many of the services that one would go to Walmart for (photo, pharmacy, etc) and Shoppers Drug Mart are also becoming much bigger players in the market as well. I also wonder if Real Canadian Superstore tries to expand to gobble up some of the better Target locations (if they exist).

    The Target thing though was such a collasal failure that I'm not sure how much business there is to distribute to other retailers. I think it'll end up getting split among higher end places and the remaining discount places. Target seemed to want to sit somewhere in the middle in the Canadian market and I don't think that's a really big market. Maybe this will mean Sears Canada survives a little longer.

  13. #11
    Atomic Punk atomicpunk5151's Avatar
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    Target needed to changed their merchandise to better align with the Canadian market.

    I was shocked at the lack of Beaver Pelts, Flannel Shirts, Maple Syrup and hockey pucks.


    On a side note..... Do they even really need retail stores in Canada, I just assumed everyone still traded fur pelts for goods and services??

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  15. #12
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicpunk5151 View Post
    Target needed to changed their merchandise to better align with the Canadian market.

    I was shocked at the lack of Beaver Pelts, Flannel Shirts, Maple Syrup and hockey pucks.


    On a side note..... Do they even really need retail stores in Canada, I just assumed everyone still traded fur pelts for goods and services??
    that's good stuff.

  16. #13
    Atomic Punk CaboChris's Avatar
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    I've never cared for Target.

    I always found them to be more expensive than Walmart and they always tried to be the antithesis of Walmart.

    I always hear people say..."I won't shop at Walmart". Why? Business practices? Wages?

    I go where the cheapest price is and I have no dog in the fight.

    Target customers have always struck me as arrogant. You're shopping at a cheap place...just not as cheap as Walmart. Let's not act like you're making some sort of statement.

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  18. #14
    Atomic Punk atomicpunk5151's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    I've never cared for Target.

    I always found them to be more expensive than Walmart and they always tried to be the antithesis of Walmart.

    I always hear people say..."I won't shop at Walmart". Why? Business practices? Wages?

    I go where the cheapest price is and I have no dog in the fight.

    Target customers have always struck me as arrogant. You're shopping at a cheap place...just not as cheap as Walmart. Let's not act like you're making some sort of statement.
    Target is way more upscale if you use the correct pronunciation "TARJAY" when you walk in.....

    But really here in California I see no difference in Target v Walmart. Maybe just the customers are a bit stranger/freakier at Walmart? More crowded at Walmart?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    I've never cared for Target.

    I always found them to be more expensive than Walmart and they always tried to be the antithesis of Walmart.

    I always hear people say..."I won't shop at Walmart". Why? Business practices? Wages?

    I go where the cheapest price is and I have no dog in the fight.

    Target customers have always struck me as arrogant. You're shopping at a cheap place...just not as cheap as Walmart. Let's not act like you're making some sort of statement.
    To be fair - the quality on many items is far better at Target than Walmart. Walmart is shit stuff for cheap outside of known brands. Target was more about quality for cheaper prices.

 

 

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