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  1. #1
    Gird your loins Daisy Hill's Avatar
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    12.09.17 @ 08:36 PM
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    Default Average Student loan debt rises 2% tops $30,000

    I was listening to a show on sirius radio....can't remember if it was Bloomberg news or what, but I was struck by the show host who described student debt as reaching a "crippling $30,000"...I mean, it was really a moment

    now, I have never heard of a car loan as being described as "crippling" and $30,000 is a pretty good truck these days, but not a great truck, or a luxury SUV, just a run of the mill vehicle loan. And yet people pay them off routinely in 5 years and not only does no one think much of it, when people are not buying and financing cars, national economy feels it.

    so why is $30,000 in student debt crippling, when it is a debt that is tied to the ability to earn more, but $30,000 in consumer debt is nothing to sweat over?

    I know students who get professional or graduate degrees that leave them 6 figures in debt and certainly that could be crippling. But 30K seems, well, trifling in the grand scale of things

    granted this is coming from someone who worked her way thru school, never got any student aid and still managed to graduate without debt. took me longer than the usual, but I did it, and was proud of it.



    Forbes
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/laurashi...in-6-states/2/
    Average Student Loan Debt Rises, Tops $30,000 In 6 States


    Student loan debt rose 2% from 2012 to 2013, and in six states, the average student loan burden surpassed $30,000, according to a new report by The Project on Student Debt, an initiative of The Institute for College Access & Success (TICAS), a nonprofit organization working to make higher education more affordable.

    In 2013, 69% of graduates from both public and nonprofit colleges emerged with student loan debt. (So few for-profit colleges reported the debt burden of their students that they were excluded.)

    At public and nonprofit colleges, average student loan debt increased to $28,400 in 2013, from $27,850 in 2012, with the state averages ranging from as low as $18,650 to as high as $32,800. High-debt states were concentrated in the Northeast and Midwest, as in previous years, and low-debt states were clustered in the West and South. (See lists below.)

    Private loans made up about one-fifth (19%) of the Class of 2013’s debt. Such loans typically charge higher interest rates and offer fewer consumer protections and worse repayment options than federal loans. For instance, private loans often lack features such as unemployment deferment, income-driven repayment, and loan forgiveness. Because private loans are most common at for-profit colleges, with 41% of their seniors graduating with private loans in 2012, this report likely understates the overall burden of private loans. (Find out here how best to take out student loans.)
    The results of the survey should not be taken to mean that college is not worth the investment overall. But sometimes, the debt burden can mitigate the benefit.


    “A college degree is still the best path to a job and decent pay, and while loans are increasingly needed to get through school, graduating with burdensome debt is not a foregone conclusion,” said Lauren Asher, TICAS president. “Where you go to college matters, and the kind of loans you have matter, too. Federal student loans come with crucial consumer protections like income-based repayment plans, while private loans offer little or no relief if you hit a rough patch.”

    The average debt within schools varied widely, from $2,250 to $71,350 for the Class of 2013. Almost one in five (18%) colleges saw average debt surge at least 10 percent. On the other hand, at 7% of colleges, average debt dropped at least 10 percent.
    Because colleges are not required to report student loan debt data on their students, TICAS said the report underscored the need for federal collection of such data. The report is based on voluntarily provided figures by more than half of public and nonprofit colleges granting four-year degrees and representing 83% of all bachelor’s degree recipients.

    “Only with comprehensive, reliable data for every college will we see the full picture of student debt. This is too important an issue for students, schools, and policymakers to rely on voluntary, self-reported data,” said Matthew Reed, TICAS program director and coauthor of the report. “Federal collection of both federal and private loan debt at graduation is both necessary and long overdue.”

    Only 1% of for-profit colleges responded (eight out of 595), representing 3% of for-profit bachelor’s degree recipients responses, so for-profits were excluded from the report. However, a federal survey from 2011-2012 showed that graduates of for-profit colleges were 29% more likely to have loans than graduates of public and nonprofit colleges, and that they owed 43% more. At that time, for-profit colleges accounted for 7% of new bachelor degree recipients.
    Another reason the report may also under-report the debt burden is because the colleges did not include transfer students or any private loans the college was unaware of. TICAS said that this was yet another rationale for the federal government to collect student debt data for all schools.


    Private loans accounted for a significant amount of the student loan burden at colleges with both high and low average debt. Among the high-debt colleges (listed below), private loans accounted for anywhere from 0% to 54% of their graduates’ debt. For graduating seniors at almost half of the 40 high-debt colleges more than one-third of their debt came from private loans. Graduating seniors at eight low-debt colleges also took out more than a third of their loans from private lenders.

    In 2011-2012, almost half of all undergraduates that took out private loans did not max out their federal loans even though the recommendation is that private loans be used only as a last resort.

  2. #2
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    Certainly over here, a degree is no longer seen as being any guarantee of a decent job - and I think that's the reason the debts incurred are seen as being problematic. Degrees are so commonplace nowadays that most graduates will still end up in minimum wage jobs upon graduation, with the inability to pay back student loans being a very real possibility. In the UK however, they do get cancelled after about 25 years if a graduate fails to earn the requisite amount needed before repayment(s) kick in.
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  3. #3
    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Default

    I think the amount of student debt speaks to the inability, and often unwillingness, of people to budget. University is expensive. This isn't news. So it's important to have a job before and during your time at school in order to pay for it. I know people who graduated with me 20 years ago who are still paying off school debts because when they were at the pub I was at work. You can choose the pub life just don't complain when you got a huge debt come graduation day.

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  5. #4
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    You have to have a DAMN good paying job to pay for it now. I don't even want to think about my debt...I graduate in 6 mos. But, my income potential is much higher and, more than that, I'll be helping people not just doing a job.

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  7. #5
    Atomic Punk CaboChris's Avatar
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    More people need to just go to community college and learn a trade.

    The world will always need cooks, nurses, and machine operators.

    $3,000 in debt as opposed to $30,000...

    One can have a decent life working blue-collar...

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  9. #6
    Atomic Punk I Coulda Hada VH's Avatar
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    12.10.17 @ 11:38 PM
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    More people need to just go to community college and learn a trade.

    The world will always need cooks, nurses, and machine operators.

    $3,000 in debt as opposed to $30,000...

    One can have a decent life working blue-collar...
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  11. #7
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    Default

    Quite often now a degree isn't worth the paper it's printed on. It guarantee's nothing these days and that includes getting a job at all - never mind a higher paying job due your education. Plenty of young people with their law degree are out there working at Starbucks.

    So in this regard, owing 30K out of the gate, when the best job you can get pays minimum wage - ya, I would call that crippling as you start out life in the real world.

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  13. #8
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    Default

    In the UK (possibly the same in the US / Canada, I don't know) this problem has arisen as a direct consequence of government wanting to skew the unemployment figures (something they continue to try to do by raising the compulsory school leaving-age every now and then). Of course, they try to 'sell' the concept as altruism, ie that any decent government / nation would want all of its children to have a university education, but the fact of the matter is that in an economy where jobs are few and far between, they've really done the hard-sell on degrees - even when wholly inappropriate for the kids in question, solely so that they can pretend unemployment is lower than it is, with fewer people being forced to claim the resultant benefits.

    The result of all of this has been the continuing devaluing of degrees (and spiralling debts) - universities have had to dumb them down so as to maintain pass-rates for the numerous students embarking upon them (students whose talents may well lie elsewhere, and certainly not in academia); the subjects offered have become increasingly non-academic and tenuous in nature; the job-market is swamped with non-exceptional graduates, often with unrealistic expectations, fighting over minimum wage jobs; the UK can no longer afford to provide a free post-18 education, so students are forced to acquire debts which a great many have little hope of paying off; apprenticeships are few and far between, and the numbers entering essential trades are dwindling because of the government-created misconception that an 'academic' degree is the be-all and end-all.

    In summary, the whole thing is a bloody mess.
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  15. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaboChris View Post
    More people need to just go to community college and learn a trade.

    The world will always need cooks, nurses, and machine operators.

    $3,000 in debt as opposed to $30,000...

    One can have a decent life working blue-collar...
    That's what I did. But after 25 years it was time for a change...I don't have any other debts than my student loans accrued over the last 5 years...

  16. #10
    Atomic Punk edwardv's Avatar
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    Default

    When I was 18 and you wanted to be a cook,machine operator,etc you did not go to a CC. Has it now got to the point you have to go to a CC to be roofer too? Looks to me as a money making scheme on both ends white and blue collar. I was a manager of a small business for close to 40 years. I interviewed hundreds maybe thousands of young people in that time who had BA or BS degrees and were in more than 30 grand debt or their parents were, looking for low wage jobs. It is a bloody mess on the fringes of higher education.
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  17. #11
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Daisy Hill View Post
    I have never heard of a car loan as being described as "crippling" and $30,000 is a pretty good truck these days, but not a great truck, or a luxury SUV, just a run of the mill vehicle loan. And yet people pay them off routinely in 5 years and not only does no one think much of it, when people are not buying and financing cars, national economy feels it.

    so why is $30,000 in student debt crippling, when it is a debt that is tied to the ability to earn more, but $30,000 in consumer debt is nothing to sweat over?
    Right there with ya!
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  18. #12
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    Dear God.

    If someone has a law degree and they are working at Starbucks, they are a fucking idiot, or they got their law degree from the University of Grenada. The amount of bullshit I read on this site the last couple of months is becoming fucking mind blowing.

    Now, $30,000 in student debt is not crippling if it is wisely spent.

    $30,000 in student loans to get a bachelors degree in mechanical engineering? Worth every penny.

    $30,000 in student loans to get a general liberal arts degree from some local or state Joe Blow college or university? Probably not worth it.

    People just have to think on the basic premise of debt, it is using money today that you are going to make tomorrow. If what you are borrowing is not helping you make money in the future, or is not tied to a generally appreciating asset, it is a bad decision.

    The liberal arts degree of today (unless it is from the Ivy League or other prestigious schools) is the high school diploma of the 1970's.

    You have to get advanced degrees and professional certifications out the ass if you are to compete in the modern white collar world as a general rule. There are of course exceptions, but in general you just have to have masters degrees and certifications to compete...period. And that is money well spent.
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  20. #13
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardv View Post
    When I was 18 and you wanted to be a cook,machine operator,etc you did not go to a CC. Has it now got to the point you have to go to a CC to be roofer too? Looks to me as a money making scheme on both ends white and blue collar. I was a manager of a small business for close to 40 years. I interviewed hundreds maybe thousands of young people in that time who had BA or BS degrees and were in more than 30 grand debt or their parents were, looking for low wage jobs. It is a bloody mess on the fringes of higher education.
    Absolutely, the world needs carpenters and plumbers too. And I can tell you, I prepare financial statements and tax returns for guys who are making hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars a year and never set foot on a college campus, because they excelled at their chosen trade, whether carpentry or auto repair.
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  22. #14
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    When I went back to school to get my social work degree, I was amazed at how many people thought I would go for theatre because of my love of acting, and directing plays. Ummm...I want to increase my earning potential, not DECREASE it.

    While social work is not a degree that will get you a six figure income, there is a lot of work available in the field, and the starting pay is the same or better than the secretarial field I was in...

    I'll be convocating in June, at the age of 52. Yes, with HUGE debt (much more than the $30G posted here), but I not only will be making more money, more important is the satisfaction in doing something that helps the oppressed and marginalized in society. That alone is worth it.

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  24. #15
    Atomic Punk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    Dear God.

    If someone has a law degree and they are working at Starbucks, they are a fucking idiot, or they got their law degree from the University of Grenada. The amount of bullshit I read on this site the last couple of months is becoming fucking mind blowing.

    Now, $30,000 in student debt is not crippling if it is wisely spent.
    First of all, is it necessary to be so bloody aggressive? Especially when you're talking ill-founded and inaccurate nonsense?

    I personally know law graduates with high passing grades, from GOOD universities - who have found it incredibly difficult to get work relating to their field of study (or indeed any well-paid white collar job). To get into legal practice requires more money than the $30,000 mentioned here - and even more good luck - because law is hugely competitive, with gazillions of students battling for the same training contracts, all having studied the subject thinking it was 'going to make them a fortune'. I know personally of law graduates (and similar) being forced to take minimum wage jobs - certainly as a starting point in their working lives, and for quite some time afterwards, in actual fact...

    Maybe things are different in the States (though I doubt it) but a degree simply isn't a ticket into a well-paid career, unless you're willing to start at the bottom (as the non-graduates would've done in years gone by) and work your way upwards...And for some law (or other) graduates that may mean starting out serving coffees in Starbucks before embarking on their management programme, for example. Even that, however, is hugely competitive.

    I pity today's students - because a lot of them are coerced by an agenda-driven government (and therefore, by extension, teachers) into going to university, and, yes, consequently getting themselves into what will inevitably be "crippling" amounts of debt. On the other hand, I also feel very sad that some people (a lot of people) consider subjects that don't automatically gain one entry into a well-paid career (such as mechanical engineering, for example) a 'waste of time and money'. What about studying just for the sheer joy of gaining knowledge, expanding one's horizons, and becoming a more well-rounded individual as a consequence? Once upon a time, only the very dedicated of students entered the world of academia and universities and, irrespective of the subject they studied, so long as they excelled at it, they would be guaranteed a good job at the end of it. Nowadays, that's not the case. A university education has been devalued - ironically and commensurately as its 'cost' has increased.
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