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  1. #1
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    Default Bill Maher Agrees With Gruber - Americans Are Stupid

    From Real Time tonight.


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    While I am inclined to agree that many Americans don't think much beyond what they feel, and they certainly haven't really flushed out their principles when it comes to the law and policy, everyone in that video completely missed the point.

    No one should be that outraged that Gruber called Americans stupid. I's pretty obvious that's how the drafters of this bill felt considering that they had to lie and use, as Maher called it, "sleight of hand" in order to pass a bill that an elite few decided was best for all Americans--and do it in a way that completely fooled Americans as to what they were getting.

    The outrage is that the President--THE PRESIDENT--went across America telling everyone that if they were happy with their current plan and doctors they could keep them, all while knowing that it was not true.

    The outrage is that the President knew all along that the "Cadillac tax" was actually written to eventually tax most health care plans, while we were told--even by the President, again--that it was to tax only the crazy, expensive plans.

    The outrage is that the White House is trying to say that it was a typo that only state exchanges would get subsidies. In fact, it says twice that subsidies are only available "through an Exchange established by the State." Then that phrase is cross-referenced seven times. Another exchange is never mentioned, not even an exchange set up by the federal government. The same phrasing was in the version of the bill passed by the Finance Committee, and it was added a second time in Reid's office when they were merging the bills.

    And despite the fact that the White House is trying to argue that the federal exchanges were meant to be in place of state exchanges, which is the argument Jon Stewart used (after a nearly perfect take on all of this, which he ruined at the end), as well as many others, "State," in the ACA, is defined as one of the 50 states or DC. Further, one of the main drafters of the legislation (Gruber) is on video many times saying they explicitly used that language to make sure that states created an exchange because not doing so would mean your state's citizens would be paying the taxes but not getting the subsidies.

    That should be the outrage. They basically told Americans they were getting an apple all the while knowing they were actually getting an orange.

    As far as the point made about insurance and healthy people paying for sick people, this goes to what they call "stupidity," but what I would call a basic misunderstanding. I would venture to say the average person things of their health insurance as something they are paying for themselves. In other words, they believe they are paying every month and that is going towards paying for them when they are sick. The average person has no real incentive to understand what insurance actually is, which is putting together a pool of people paying in where the healthy people subsidize the sick. So preying on Americans' misunderstandings of how things work is pretty awful too.

    Besides, if the ACA is so popular when you tell people what is in it versus when you ask if they like Obamacare, then why was there a need to lie? Why not just tell everyone what is in it--they'd love it!

    The answer is that they had to cover up how the sausage is made and the fudge is packed. Nothing is free, and everything costs something. If people actually knew how it all worked, they'd be against it.

    And for good reason.
    Last edited by lovemachine97(Version 2); 11.22.14 at 12:52 AM.

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    In Canada, we have healthcare that I am very happy with - but it's paid for through higher taxes and things are generally more expensive. Now I was born into this, so it's my normal. How do you think Americans would respond today to universal healthcare, which will be paid for through higher taxes in addition to goods and services being more expensive due to a higher sales tax?

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    I agree, the Americans that voted for this President and all the Dems that were in power that needed to pass the bill so they could see what's in it, yeah they were all stupid. That is who Gruber is talking about.

    Hot Sauce must have been stroking it hard and heavy to that clip.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sickman View Post
    I agree, the Americans that voted for this President and all the Dems that were in power that needed to pass the bill so they could see what's in it, yeah they were all stupid. That is who Gruber is talking about.

    Hot Sauce must have been stroking it hard and heavy to that clip.
    I especially love it when you actually explain Obamacare to Americans in detail - they discover that they actually like what they have been told to hate.

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    There are many reasons why Americans might like what is in the Affordable Care Act. Hell, my parents are Shiite Republicans and they like the part where it covers the "donut hole" in Medicare part D.

    From about July to nearly the end of the year, prescriptions come purely out of my parents' pockets. So of course getting that closed is something they like. They're getting free shit. People on Medicare are already getting, on average, three times as much care as they paid in, so what's a bit more? And it's not like their taxes will go up. The taxes on my fiance's sister, an anesthesiologist, and people like her, will go up.

    It depends upon the questions you ask people as to whether or not they are going to like what is in the ACA. As far as "Obamacare" having an overall negative association, this is what political parties do. It's why the inheritance tax started getting called the death tax, etc., etc. But as far as the meat and potatoes, it truly depends upon how you draft the questions.

    But the bottom line is that if people are getting free stuff--or more for less--because taxes on the top 10% of earners will eventually pay for it, then of course they are going to like it. People will vote themselves money.

    As far as universal health care, the argument never gets settled. The people who have it and love it say it is the greatest thing ever and the care is just as good or better than anywhere else. The people who have it and don't love it say that they have to wait for basic procedures and the lines can be a pain and the delays are endless.

    The argument against it is that government intervention and regulation stifles innovation, so you'll see medicinal advancements slow if we move from a freer medical system to a more tightly regulated, single-payer system. I tend to believe this to be true.

    I recently tried to come up with an analogy for what some people call net neutrality, which has become a catch-all term for government regulation of the internet. Where has quality and innovation flourished--cable and pay TV, where there is little to no regulation, or network television, which is closely regulated by the FCC? The answer is easy, but I think the overarching philosophy applies across the board. I worry about quality and innovation once the government controls everything about my health care. I also fear a two-tiered system--one where the wealthy pay cash for great care, and another under the government where people receive subpar care from doctors who are not in the cash business.
    Last edited by lovemachine97(Version 2); 11.22.14 at 10:54 AM.

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    This is nothing new for Maher (or some of us here on the links). He's been saying Americans are stupid for many years now. I don't see why this is so controversial. Many Americans ARE stupid.
    2-time Fantasy Baseball Champion.

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    12.13.17 @ 07:04 AM
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    People should really stop complaining about paying more taxes for the PPACA.

    I'm in the 39.6 federal rate, plus my Obamacare tax, plus my 5.75 percent Virginia rate, plus the taxes on my house, plus the personal property taxes on my vehicles, plus my Loudoun County gross receipts tax on my business, plus my Loudoun County personal property tax on my business assets, plus sales tax on everything I buy at 6.5 percent, plus Social Security and Medicare on all my employees, plus Federal Unemployment Tax on all my employees, plus State Unemployment Tax on all my employees.

    Yes, I really do agree with how certain people think that I don't pay enough in taxes, and I will gladly put more in for someone who is probably paying little or no federal or state income tax.

    Because, we are all about fair and hope and change, and I do think it is truly fair that over half my income goes out the door in taxes, because you know, I'm the problem.

    I only work sixty and seventy hours a week because I want to help others get more shit for free from the government for not working.

    It's a great system, and I fully endorse it. I love being told that I'm the problem, and I love being told that I am stupid by a fucking Canadian that seems to think he has the all the answers in the world for America's problems.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmy812 View Post
    This is nothing new for Maher (or some of us here on the links). He's been saying Americans are stupid for many years now. I don't see why this is so controversial. Many Americans ARE stupid.
    Because only America has stupid people, everyone from other countries always spouting off about America's problems have nothing but uber-intelligent citizens. There is obviously not one stupid fucker in Canada based upon how some people in here talk. I love how people from around the world bitch and moan about America's mistakes and problems, but they have no fucking clue about all we do for their country.

    Even Canada, which is a great country, benefits tremendously from their relationship with the United States. Who's navy is it that is keeping the world's trade routes safe? Who's humongous defense budgets allows countries in NATO to spend almost fucking nothing on defense in comparison?

    We here in America are fully aware of our faults. In fact, we talk about them openly. But the fucking hubris of some people on here is really starting to chap my ass. Yes, we have problems, but we are a fucking great place to live. Maybe not the best, but great. And maybe before some people click the "reply" button, they might think about what the world would look like if we had been isolationists for the last 100 years.

    No, we aren't perfect, but if you feel comfortable having China or Russia be the sole superpower in the world, just keep on talking, you might get you ask for, and frankly, deserve.
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  12. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    Because only America has stupid people, everyone from other countries always spouting off about America's problems have nothing but uber-intelligent citizens. There is obviously not one stupid fucker in Canada based upon how some people in here talk. I love how people from around the world bitch and moan about America's mistakes and problems, but they have no fucking clue about all we do for their country.

    Even Canada, which is a great country, benefits tremendously from their relationship with the United States. Who's navy is it that is keeping the world's trade routes safe? Who's humongous defense budgets allows countries in NATO to spend almost fucking nothing on defense in comparison?

    We here in America are fully aware of our faults. In fact, we talk about them openly. But the fucking hubris of some people on here is really starting to chap my ass. Yes, we have problems, but we are a fucking great place to live. Maybe not the best, but great. And maybe before some people click the "reply" button, they might think about what the world would look like if we had been isolationists for the last 100 years.

    No, we aren't perfect, but if you feel comfortable having China or Russia be the sole superpower in the world, just keep on talking, you might get you ask for, and frankly, deserve.
    couldn't agree with you more. It's also funny that it took the Canadian on that show to fight against the "Americans are stupid" narrative. The truth is that the "Americans are stupid" is just code for "every OTHER American who disagrees with us is stupid" game that is played by those in political discussions. This is a game that the left has been playing a fair bit the past few years (not that the right doesn't play it as well). Bill Maher basically made a movie calling every religious person stupid.

    Are some Americans dumb as shit? you betcha. Not sure what the percentage is but I'm guessing it's about the same as the dumb as shit Canadian percentage. Just a hunch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    People should really stop complaining about paying more taxes for the PPACA.

    I'm in the 39.6 federal rate, plus my Obamacare tax, plus my 5.75 percent Virginia rate, plus the taxes on my house, plus the personal property taxes on my vehicles, plus my Loudoun County gross receipts tax on my business, plus my Loudoun County personal property tax on my business assets, plus sales tax on everything I buy at 6.5 percent, plus Social Security and Medicare on all my employees, plus Federal Unemployment Tax on all my employees, plus State Unemployment Tax on all my employees.

    Yes, I really do agree with how certain people think that I don't pay enough in taxes, and I will gladly put more in for someone who is probably paying little or no federal or state income tax.

    Because, we are all about fair and hope and change, and I do think it is truly fair that over half my income goes out the door in taxes, because you know, I'm the problem.

    I only work sixty and seventy hours a week because I want to help others get more shit for free from the government for not working.

    It's a great system, and I fully endorse it. I love being told that I'm the problem, and I love being told that I am stupid by a fucking Canadian that seems to think he has the all the answers in the world for America's problems.
    I am glad you get it now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    couldn't agree with you more. It's also funny that it took the Canadian on that show to fight against the "Americans are stupid" narrative. The truth is that the "Americans are stupid" is just code for "every OTHER American who disagrees with us is stupid" game that is played by those in political discussions. This is a game that the left has been playing a fair bit the past few years (not that the right doesn't play it as well). Bill Maher basically made a movie calling every religious person stupid.

    Are some Americans dumb as shit? you betcha. Not sure what the percentage is but I'm guessing it's about the same as the dumb as shit Canadian percentage. Just a hunch.
    Believing in a talking snake, an krk that carried two of every animal and a man that lives in the sky is logically fucking stupid. Faith is something else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hot Sauce View Post
    Believing in a talking snake, an Ark that carried two of every animal and a man that lives in the sky is logically fucking stupid. Faith is something else.
    Maher doesn't make such a distinction. The premise of the movie is basically if you believe in God then you're a moron. If you go to church, you're a moron. And that's fine. He's has every right to his own ridiculous opinions. If he thinks most of his family and friends and colleagues are stupid, well that's his thing.

    But this is all part of some sort of narcissistic movement around the world. In order to pat oneself on the back and to point how bright you are then everyone else must be dumb. I think it's insane. I think it's particuarly insane for Canadians to point out how dumb Americans are. How could be WE be that stupid? My kids watched cartoons this working (craeted by Americans), my son played on his American designed Ipod, the girls played on their American designed Ipad, I drove my American designed and manufactured vehicle to work today and am currently typing on an American run website. Yeah, they're dopes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hot Sauce View Post
    Believing in a talking snake, an krk that carried two of every animal and a man that lives in the sky is logically fucking stupid. Faith is something else.
    Roughly 67% of Canadians identify themselves as Christian. I will wait with baited breath for the "Canadians are Stupid" thread that I am sure will be coming our way any minute now.
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    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    Maher doesn't make such a distinction. The premise of the movie is basically if you believe in God then you're a moron. If you go to church, you're a moron. And that's fine. He's has every right to his own ridiculous opinions. If he thinks most of his family and friends and colleagues are stupid, well that's his thing.

    But this is all part of some sort of narcissistic movement around the world. In order to pat oneself on the back and to point how bright you are then everyone else must be dumb. I think it's insane. I think it's particuarly insane for Canadians to point out how dumb Americans are. How could be WE be that stupid? My kids watched cartoons this working (craeted by Americans), my son played on his American designed Ipod, the girls played on their American designed Ipad, I drove my American designed and manufactured vehicle to work today and am currently typing on an American run website. Yeah, they're dopes.
    Don't forget that many Canadians work for American companies or Canadian companies that make a large percentage of their gross receipts due to American industry. But yeah, we are all fucking dopes as you said.
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