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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk
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    Default “Rights are special privileges the government gives you.”



    Ohio public school brainwashes 8 year olds: “Rights are special privileges the government gives you.”

    http://www.againstcronycapitalism.or...ent-gives-you/
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  2. #2
    Baluchitherium
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    I thought our constitution gave us rights, all this time I have been wrong? Sheesh, that John Denver is full of shit. (10 points for who can name where that came from.)
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    Good Enough cabomiro's Avatar
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    12.12.17 @ 03:15 PM
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    Wasn't it your government that created the constitution ? So in a sense the statement is correct is it not ?
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    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    It's like the person that wrote this never read the Declaration of Independence.

    The Constitution protects individuals from infringements on their "unalienable rights." Now, the reality is that "rights" are whatever you're willing to fight for.

    For our ancestors, it was life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, which is protected by the Bill of Rights and the Constitution.

    To say that the government "gives" them to us is to imply that the government can take them away, which I think a lot of people would be okay with. If this is true, this is truly awful.

    From the Declaration of Independence:

    ... We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed ...
    The people created the government, and the government cannot take away these rights, which means they haven't "given" them to us. They are natural; they already existed.
    Last edited by lovemachine97(Version 2); 11.20.14 at 12:48 PM.

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    Atomic Punk ziggysmalls's Avatar
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    Surprised that Phyllis doesn't have a hyphen in her name

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    there's nothing wrong with what was said. The government gives rights to citizens. Non-citizens in America don't have the same rights. If the rights were given my god (or whatever you want to call God) then govt would have no right to deport people as they would have the same god given rights that any citizen would have.

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    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    The difference is that illegal immigrants are not considered "law abiding citizens," which some argue affects their ability to, say, bear arms. That debate is still ongoing, whether or not the second amendment is more like other rights or more like voting, which is restricted to US citizens. But as far as the most fundamental rights, like those found in the first, fourth, fifth, and fourteenth amendments, courts have upheld time and time again that they cover non-citizens in America.

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    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemachine97(Version 2) View Post
    The difference is that illegal immigrants are not considered "law abiding citizens," which some argue affects their ability to, say, bear arms. That debate is still ongoing, whether or not the second amendment is more like other rights or more like voting, which is restricted to US citizens. But as far as the most fundamental rights, like those found in the first, fourth, fifth, and fourteenth amendments, courts have upheld time and time again that they cover non-citizens in America.
    and what about women? Who gave them rights? According to the constitution only men were "endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights" Did government do that? Of course they did. Because they can. Governments assign rights all the time. Government can also kill someone (therefore throwing the right to life in the trash) and jail someone (oops, there goes liberty).

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    Here's a good explanation


    Americapedia

    Natural Rights

    According to natural rights theory, as described by philosophers such as John Locke, everyone is born with anequality of certain rights, regardless of their nationality. Since they come from nature or from God, natural rights cannot be justly taken away without consent. As the Declaration of Independence asserts, natural (or “inalienable”) rights include “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.” Other natural rights are protected in the Bill of Rights, including freedom of speech, religion, and press.

    The Founders believed that it is an important purpose of government to protect peoples’ natural rights. Thomas Jefferson wrote in the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom that infringements of conscience were a violation of natural rights; James Madison included protections from government abridgement of natural rights in the Bill of Rights. Belief in natural rights theory led many Founders, notably James Otis, to denounce slavery as a violation of natural rights. The Ninth Amendment addresses those natural rights not specifically listed in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, but which the people retain.

    Later documents, including the Declaration of Sentiments and Resolutions, and Letter from Birmingham Jail refer to natural rights as the basis for protesting unjust treatment of women and African Americans.

    Natural rights theory is a foundation for constitutional principles such as judicial protection of rights and majority rule versus minority rights, and civic values like respect and responsibility.



    http://billofrightsinstitute.org/res...atural-rights/
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  13. #10
    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    It's the wording that is the problem. When did our inalienable rights become "privileges" for being a good citizen? Not sure there was any nefarious intent, could have just been poorly worded, that's all.
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    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    And what about women? Who gave them rights?
    You're sexist, women have always had the right to clean my house, make my dinner, and clean the chrome off my hitch, and neither you or any other Canadian Socialist can take that away from them!!
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  16. #12
    Outta Space Cowboy Scotty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    It's the wording that is the problem. When did our inalienable rights become "privileges" for being a good citizen? Not sure there was any nefarious intent, could have just been poorly worded, that's all.
    You're right, but it's indicative of a larger problem. We have generations of Americans who don't know or are forgetting the difference between privileges and Constitutional rights. That ignorance will eventually be capitalized on.

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  18. #13
    Atomic Punk lovemachine97(Version 2)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    and what about women? Who gave them rights? According to the constitution only men were "endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights" Did government do that? Of course they did. Because they can. Governments assign rights all the time. Government can also kill someone (therefore throwing the right to life in the trash) and jail someone (oops, there goes liberty).
    No, a bunch of guys committed treason against their country in order to protect from government intrusion what they believed to be inherent rights. Those rights--"among these, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," were protected via the Bill of Rights.

    The government established by the Constitution was to be made up of the people and derived its powers from the "consent of the governed." The people have certain rights (that were fought for and established by the aforementioned traitors), and the people established a government of the people in order to protect these rights from the government. This is much different than, say, a monarchy or dictator where the people have no rights and the government can give them or take them as they please. In fact, that's kind of what happened with voting.

    The Constitution didn't layout any qualifications or protect the right to vote. The guys who wrote it didn't trust the general public much. That's why we have a republic, not direct democracy. It's why we have an electoral college, not a popular vote for President. And it's also part of the reason Senators were originally appointed by states, not voted on by the general public. And remember, the Bill of Rights didn't originally apply to the states.

    When it came time for states to set up voter qualifications, they mostly gave the right to White men who owned property . Some states allowed women to vote as long as they met the property qualifications. Some pretty awful SCOTUS decisions were marred by continuing the status quo instead correctly interpreting the 14th amendment, which guaranteed equal treatment under the law.

    Without a specific protection against government intrusion in voting, state governments gave the right to whom they wanted, and took it away or never gave it to whom they didn't want. That is not how "rights" work in the US. So voting rights became something protected against government intrusion, and it was done so through the people not leaders ordained by God to hand out rights willy nilly.

    As far as life and liberty, the 5th amendment reads that No person shall be "deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law." One must be granted due process if they are accused of a crime. You can't have "liberty" if others are allowed to trample all over another's rights. My right to swing my fist stops at your face. And the government, of the people and by the people, is empowered to punish those who are not law-abiding citizens.

    The problem with the wording is that it ignores how all of this came about, and it ignores the specific reasons and ways the Constitution was drafted.
    Last edited by lovemachine97(Version 2); 11.20.14 at 02:52 PM.

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    Eruption Arson's Avatar
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    The constitution acknowledges that we have rights. It does not give them to us, we give government limited rights to do certain things.

    Unfortunately our government servants have forgotten their place. This nonsense is not limited to just Ohio's public schools.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    You're sexist, women have always had the right to clean my house, make my dinner, and clean the chrome off my hitch, and neither you or any other Canadian Socialist can take that away from them!!

 

 

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