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  1. #1
    Atomic Punk rocknblues81's Avatar
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    Default Pope Francis declares evolution and Big Bang theory are right and God isn't 'a magici

    Pope Francis declares evolution and Big Bang theory are right and God isn't 'a magician with a magic wand'


    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...d-9822514.html
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    Super Duper Frontman track 5's Avatar
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    All I know for sure is when I see the Pope. I remember a post by Goo. It was a picture of the Pope with a mic in his hand kind of bent over talking to the masses. But brother Goo added, "are you ready to rock!" Something like that. It's the simple things that make me laugh. Out.
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  3. #3
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
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    This, like many other things Pope Francis has said, is basically the same thing the Catholic Church has said for decades, only worded differently.

    I get a chuckle out of comments in articles like that one that say the Church is anti-science, and for evidence of that, they often talk about the rift with Galileo...that happened 500 years ago. They fail to mention that the Vatican has one of the most advanced observatories in the world and has been adding to science for over 100 years. Never let facts get in the way of a good story I suppose.

    Despite it's reputation, the Church is very open to new scientific discoveries because it views science as a way to better understand God's creation, and therefore humanity can get closer to God in the process. What the Church has said before, and Francis re-emphasizes here, is that God created the universe and set His plan into motion.
    CNN may think my opinion matters, but you shouldn't.

  4. #4
    Baluchitherium
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    12.10.17 @ 11:47 AM
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsbll4 View Post
    This, like many other things Pope Francis has said, is basically the same thing the Catholic Church has said for decades, only worded differently.

    I get a chuckle out of comments in articles like that one that say the Church is anti-science, and for evidence of that, they often talk about the rift with Galileo...that happened 500 years ago. They fail to mention that the Vatican has one of the most advanced observatories in the world and has been adding to science for over 100 years. Never let facts get in the way of a good story I suppose.

    Despite it's reputation, the Church is very open to new scientific discoveries because it views science as a way to better understand God's creation, and therefore humanity can get closer to God in the process. What the Church has said before, and Francis re-emphasizes here, is that God created the universe and set His plan into motion.
    The watchmaker God
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    Forum Frontman It's Mike's Avatar
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    this is hardly news. Pope John Paul II said the exact same thing a couple of decades ago.

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    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dick Punch View Post
    The watchmaker God
    Not necessarily, though. The Church says God has the power to intervene and does (think miracles and answering prayers), but we can't know what God's plan is.
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  7. #7
    Baluchitherium
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsbll4 View Post
    Not necessarily, though. The Church says God has the power to intervene and does (think miracles and answering prayers), but we can't know what God's plan is.
    I have actually been thinking a lot about the interventionist God and the watchmaker God thanks to Steven Hawking lately and I just am having trouble seeing how the two can co-exist. Your prayers were answered before you even existed because the plan was set into motion when the universe was created, therefore rendering an interventionist God non-existent except in your head. It's all very confusing.
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  8. #8
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dick Punch View Post
    I have actually been thinking a lot about the interventionist God and the watchmaker God thanks to Steven Hawking lately and I just am having trouble seeing how the two can co-exist. Your prayers were answered before you even existed because the plan was set into motion when the universe was created, therefore rendering an interventionist God non-existent except in your head. It's all very confusing.
    Agreed. Like physics, it will melt your mind if you think about it too long

    I think the best way to explain it is that God set the rules and set the game into motion. From there He chooses to step in from time to time because humanity's free will cause problems that conflict with God's larger plan. The watchmaker model assumes that everything created will have a set end, and all the decisions we have made and will make were determined before we were even born. That will also melt your mind if you think about it too long--especially when you are deciding between the salad and the hamburger at lunch

    A "Rulemaker" model is consistent with physics in that it explains why things are the way they are. For example, if the force of gravity was any stronger, the universe would collapse on itself. If it was any weaker, it would fly apart without anything being able to form. The force that holds atoms together is the same thing: too strong and electrons would crash into their nucleus, but any weaker and electrons would fly away preventing atoms from forming in the first place. It seems everything from the speed of light to the force of atoms to the age of the universe was specifically calibrated for this outcome. Scientists have attempted to explain this with the multiverse theory, which states that every possible rule calibration is experienced in an infinite amount of universes outside our own, and that we only see this "perfect" calibration simply because we are in it (which, as far as science goes, is basically impossible to prove but a great explanation).

    The strange thing is that, theoretically, if one knew the location of every atom in the universe just after the big bang, just by using mathematics one would be able to fast forward and predict everything that would ever happen in the universe. Every rock crashing into another, every rainfall on every planet, and every supernova that creates new solar systems. However, the minute life came about, those calculations go out the window because of free will--atoms choosing where they want to go, not based on mathematics, but simply due to thought.

    In the end, though, while science can always say how we got here, the most important questions are: Why are we here? and, What are we going to do with it?
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  9. #9
    Atomic Punk ziggysmalls's Avatar
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    Well I certainly don't believe that everything is predestined due to God's plan. If that's the case then how can anybody go to hell or heaven for that matter? They had no part in deciding whether they would be a good or bad person. They are just following God's will

    Big Bang and Evolution is great but still doesn't explain to me what was around the Big Bang? Sure I know the theories but all this matter in the universe had to come from somewhere at some point in time. How? That's what bakes my noodle. Trillions of years ago this stuff just appeared. Something had to create this. Then what created that?

    I really wish I could take some acid right now to figure it out for a few hours

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    And for those who think this is all the work of aliens - who created the aliens?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's Mike View Post
    this is hardly news. Pope John Paul II said the exact same thing a couple of decades ago.

    My gf's family is Catholic. She's essentially an atheist, but is very knowledgeable about her family's faith.

    Anyway, she said the exact same thing when she picked up the paper yesterday.

    People and the media seem to like this Pope, so they're probably going to co time to do this.

  12. #12
    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziggysmalls View Post
    Well I certainly don't believe that everything is predestined due to God's plan. If that's the case then how can anybody go to hell or heaven for that matter? They had no part in deciding whether they would be a good or bad person. They are just following God's will

    Big Bang and Evolution is great but still doesn't explain to me what was around the Big Bang? Sure I know the theories but all this matter in the universe had to come from somewhere at some point in time. How? That's what bakes my noodle. Trillions of years ago this stuff just appeared. Something had to create this. Then what created that?

    I really wish I could take some acid right now to figure it out for a few hours
    Yeah, the idea of everything being predetermined would completely undercut the idea free will, which the Bible embraces.

    As for what happened before the big bang, no one knows for sure, but some think the universe resets itself periodically and collapses back in on itself. This would go against our current observations that the universe is expanding at an ever increasing rate, but it's still a theory. Ironically, many theoretical physicists scoff at the idea of God being necessary, because they will ask "well who created God?" At the same time they have no trouble explaining that time was created at the Big Bang, and what existed before "always was."

    Your point is exactly right: everything in the universe, including the rules it abides by, had to come from somewhere. If or when that can definitively be explained by science we will see many people leave the idea of religion behind. Until then, most of us will still believe whatever or whoever created the universe is still out there and may be waiting for us when everything we know is gone.


    My favorite far-out theory (well, besides the multiverse theory) is that our universe was created by a previous civilization through the course of an experiment. I can just imagine some alien scientist going "watch this" and boom...the Big Bang occurred.
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  13. #13
    Atomic Punk bklynboy68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsbll4 View Post
    My favorite far-out theory (well, besides the multiverse theory) is that our universe was created by a previous civilization through the course of an experiment. I can just imagine some alien scientist going "watch this" and boom...the Big Bang occurred.
    Like this gasbag.

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    Baluchitherium
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    As far as trying to to explain mind benders goes - explain Deja Vu. Possibly one of the strangest sensations I have ever had but it doesnt seem to happen that much anymore since I have gotten older.
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    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dick Punch View Post
    As far as trying to to explain mind benders goes - explain Deja Vu. Possibly one of the strangest sensations I have ever had but it doesnt seem to happen that much anymore since I have gotten older.
    The explanation I've heard is that it is a hiccup in your brain that causes it to process short term memory into long term storage. At the same time, your mind is pulling the memory from long term storage, thus giving you the sensation that you've experienced it before, and can almost predict the next thing to happen, but just can't quite get there.
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