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  1. #1
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    11.01.17 @ 03:25 PM
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    Default Ed and Kramer Guitars

    I don't know if there was any official story behind Ed's split with Kramer. I don't recall ever reading anything about it. I'm not a guitar player either so I don't keep up on guitar companies. Did Kramer just go under? I know their factory/offices were only a few minutes from where I live over in Neptune NJ. We'd drive by there all the time. Once even saw a big truck with the VH stripes painted on the hood. It's long been gone though.

    Was there any falling out? or did the company just go bankrupt?

    Just curious since that Kramer guitar is so iconic in terms of Ed's collection.
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    Atomic Punk Get The Show On The Road's Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 10:11 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hide Your Sheep View Post
    I don't know if there was any official story behind Ed's split with Kramer. I don't recall ever reading anything about it. I'm not a guitar player either so I don't keep up on guitar companies. Did Kramer just go under? I know their factory/offices were only a few minutes from where I live over in Neptune NJ. We'd drive by there all the time. Once even saw a big truck with the VH stripes painted on the hood. It's long been gone though.

    Was there any falling out? or did the company just go bankrupt?

    Just curious since that Kramer guitar is so iconic in terms of Ed's collection.
    I seem to remember reading about Ed and the EBMM guitar and how it came to be. Ed said something along the lines that he found out that the Kramers were being made in Korea and not in Neptune NJ like they told him and he got pissed and wanted to find someone in the USA to make his guitars, or at least the ones that had his name on them.

    Of course he has also said other things to explain why he left Ernie Ball and Peavey that turned out to be less that truthful so who really knows?
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  3. #3
    Baluchitherium thismusicsux's Avatar
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    12.13.17 @ 10:54 AM
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    Default

    thought I remember some stories of shady financials and reporting to Ed... but also some info from an article below ....

    ----

    This article was written as Internet rumors of Michael Jackson causing Kramer guitars to fail as a business.

    Basically, Kramer failed because of some really bad management and a multitude of bad business decisions. Even around 1980, Guitar Center had purchased a large chunk of Kramer in order to keep it afloat. Off and on throughout the 80's, Kramer struggled even when they had the massive sales, EVH pushing them along with countless other endorsees.


    Towards the end, it really started getting bad. Kramer was suffering because they had taken on so many endorsees and couldn't pay them, so people started leaving and the demise started. EVH left around 1990, as you know, to pursue the Ernie Ball. Eddie has said in interviews that it was because he found out ESP had been making the bulk of Kramer's parts for quite some time, which was true, but it was probably due to Eddie seeing the writing on the wall with Kramer. He and Dennis Berardi (ex CEO) were really good friends, so I doubt it had anything to do with the overseas connection. However, on a funny note, Eddie's 5150 neck was probably an ESP made neck, which was reglued to make the larger headstock. Most of Kramer's necks through the 80's were made by ESP. As you guys may know, George Lynch had originally approached Kramer about an endorsement deal, and most likely, he probably found out ESP had been making the bulk of their parts, so he pretty much built ESP into what it is today because of leaving Kramer to help build that company up.

    The real downfall occurred when Henry Vacarro (the main owner/investor in Kramer) invested a HUGE chunk of money in the Ashbury Park renovation on the New Jersey Shore. If you watch the Sopranos, you'll see the failed building project in Season 3 when all the guys are out on the construction project. This project was invested in by Henry, Johnny Cash, The Jacksons, and countless others. Somewhere along the way, the cashflow stopped and the project was never completed leaving Henry with just about no money. With Kramer hurting and Henry having no more money to invest in it, it was really starting to become evident that Kramer was not going to make it. This is not to mention, Dennis Berardi funding many of his own projects with Kramer money, such as the Moscow Peace Festival, which Kramer put a LARGE chunk of money into. If you go back and watch that event, look at how many Kramer endorsees were playing that gig (Skid Row, Motley Crue, Gorky Park, Bon Jovi, Cinderella).

    So Henry had approached the Jacksons about buying the Kramer name so the company could stay afloat around 1991. Basically Michael never paid up, hence why Henry has been in legal battles with Michael and the family for quite some time. Kramer filed for bankruptcy protection in 1991. Henry tried to resurrect the company in 1995, and when that didn't work out, Gibson finally purchased what was left of Kramer. That is why you see Gibson/Musicyo selling Kramers today.

    So in essence, Kramer failed because of its own mismanagement, although Michael did play a small part in its going under. It was a matter of time though as grunge was in, Charvel/Jackson had been purchased by a large overseas company, so it was inevitable anyway, especially after Eddie left. If he had stayed on board, more than likely, Kramer would probably be in business in some shape or form to this day.
    Last edited by thismusicsux; 10.08.14 at 04:44 PM.

  4. #4
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    I heard Ed left Music Man because he was screwing Sterling Ball's wife. True?

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    It also was true that Floyd rose wasn't getting royties as he should have because some were going out the back door so to speak and he cut them
    Off.

    And when the money left, so did Ed.

    And his guitars, at least his first few and the 5150 were hand made necks and all in New Jersey.

  6. #6
    Eruption
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    Quote Originally Posted by thismusicsux View Post
    thought I remember some stories of shady financials and reporting to Ed... but also some info from an article below ....

    ----
    interesting stuff. thanks for sharing.
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  7. #7
    Eruption
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redfoot View Post
    I heard Ed left Music Man because he was screwing Sterling Ball's wife. True?
    yep. and backed up in Valeries book

  8. #8
    Eruption AFU's Avatar
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    12.16.17 @ 08:20 AM
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    Default

    I heard /read Ed was a partner in Kramer. He wasn't getting paid like other people. If memory serves Kramer closed their doors before Ed went to EBMM. I seem to remember Ed being one of the last guys still playing a Kramer after they went under. Hamer, ESP, Ibanez were the hot axes in the late 80's. Although I'm not positive about any of this. Except I bought an Ibanez RG550 in 1987. That I'm positive of. I knew Kramer was dying and I bit lame by then. Of course I would have sold a kidney to buy a striped Kramer 5150 EVH model. That would have saved Kramer I'll bet.

  9. #9
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    11.28.17 @ 10:33 PM
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    I was fortunate enought to tour the Kramer factory and talk at length with Dennis Berardi in the summer of '86, when the 5150 tour was going on. I had ordered a Kramer Focus 5000 that took months to get and was the wrong color when it arrived. I was also told that was the only color being made for the foreseeable future. So I wrote a letter to Dennis, complaining. I was 15 at the time. A week later Dennis called me to apologize. I was pretty floored. I lived in NJ, so he told me to come down to the factory and bring my guitar, which also had a shorted out pickup wire I had mentioned in the letter. He mailed me a case of Floyd Rose strings too.

    Anyway, I don't have those photos scanned, but it was a pretty cool day. I brought my best friend who had had similar issues with his candy apple red Baretta (just like the one Sammy plays in LWAN). When we got there, we could see two painted up 5150-like guitars sitting in a chair. Dennis said they were being shipped out to Chicago to meet Ed on the tour. He also showed us a bunch of photos of a backyard bbq at his house with Ed and a slew of other Kramer endorsers. I've seen some of those photos on the Internet somewhere years ago, perhaps the Classickramer site. Anyway, Dennis had just gotten them then and pulled them out of his briefcase. Then he walked us around the assembly and paint areas and took us over to a workshop, where a tech replaced one of my pickups. He had a 5150-painted body on his bench and I do still have a good photo of that I need to scan and post here.

    We walked out of there a few inches off the ground, so excited. A few weeks later I went to see VH at the Meadowlands and spotted Dennis by the soundboard. I went down to chat with him. Valerie B. was there too. Dennis said he'd get me an autographed photo of Ed and to call him a week later. I happened to be the area again a week or two later and stopped by and, sure enough, there as an autographed photo waiting for me. It was a black and white of Ed in the No Bozos shirt with the white Baretta. I still have it in a frame with my ticket stub and a pick I later caught from Ed on the Balance tour.

    IIRC, he hooked up with EBMM sort of by chance when someone there approached Ed about licensing the 5150 strings. Every time I go to NAMM and see Sterling Ball walking around, not talking with anyone, I feel like asking him what really went down. But I wouldn't do that.

  10. #10
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    12.16.17 @ 01:07 PM
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    Actually, Kramer guitars was owned by it's little known parent company Kremerica Industries. Kremerica took all the money they were making from guitar sales and invested in a more lucrative oil tanker bladder system. When that, and the subsequent "ketchup and mustard in the same bottle" project failed, so did the guitar division.

  11. #11
    Hang 'Em High James in New York's Avatar
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    Default

    Here is Ball's take on it:

    I guess I have to talk about EVH…

    This is a edited message that I responded to on our forum about the old 5150 guitar strings.

    It is an example of you never know when you take a little creative initiative where it can take you.

    5150 strings are what put EVH and I together….

    For years the legend was that he only used Fender strings that had been boiled. We had dealings with Rudy Leiren, EVH’s high school buddy/longtime tech on other stuff but they kind of kept a lot of the mystery of EVH’S sound. A lot of the stuff was just playing with people like David Lee Roth Paternity insurance, no brown m&m’s and stuff…..

    So a Guitar World Magazine cover around 1989 or 90 had EVH standing in the hovel known as 5150 Studios…He had just named the studios that and had fell in love with the whole 5150 idea.
    Scattered on the ground at his feet were some real acme string envelopes…..I thought, hmmmmm another myth debunked….If he has those dogs we can kill it for him. The challenge is how do I get his attention?

    So I sneak in the art department when my dad was at lunch (back then that was his turf)…….I took stencil and made red labels with a very funky black stencil with 5150 in big letters and guitar strings in small…… I went to the factory and scraped up some old pure nickel and had the guys make them in Eddie’s gauge…I sent them to Rudy who showed then to Eddie and the very next day the phone rings and its EVH.

    He said ” I just got these strings and they are hysterical and great strings too…thanks man….” I said “Do you want to know what would be more hysterical?” He bit on the bait and I said ” How about if you could make a bunch of money and have your own brand of guitar strings at the same time” He was all over it and said when can we get together?

    My dad was a pilot and had a single engine Bonanza…he and I flew to LA and picked up EVH, Rudy (who was not small) Engineer Donn Landee and another guy and we flew to the factory in SLO. I remember taking off at Van Nuys and a loud buzzer went off and I thought for sure it was weight related (Don’t crash Dad!) but we made it fine.

    When we got to the factory I gave them a tour and Eddie got to drive some of my Dad’s cars. It was time to talk business. I had passed the groups test. I said one thing. ” I understand that you have a relationship with Kramer (secret ownership) It’s been great meeting with you but I am not in the business of designing products for competitors….Are you sure that you can do this?” He said ” I wouldn’t (Bleepin’ )be here if I couldn’t”. He liked my royalty deal and it was to the races, or so I thought.

    A few weeks later my good friends at DAddario (this business is actually quite friendly) called me and said “Kramer just sent this string package to us to duplicate and it looks like something you were involved with….whats the deal?”

    I called Eddie and said, “WTF….You gave me your word”…..He said “I don’t know anything about it.”
    I said that I anticipated this and had registered as a trademark 5150 for guitar strings in between the time of sending him the strings and his visit and that if there were going to be 5150 strings I would be involved. He said “I own 5150!” I said “Not for guitar strings” He said “Are you trying to rip me off?” I said “No, I won’t come out with them if you aren’t involved but you can’t come out with them if I’m not involved” I told him I would give him the trademark in exchange for a 20 year license. The attorneys said money had to change hands so I sold it to him for $20.00 but actually as a joke I told him I would only accept a bowling ball….True story I sold the 5150 trademark for a bowling ball. (Oh yeah and a 20 year license that I gave back when we separated….something I didn’t have to do, btw Karma is a good thing.)

    It turns out Kramer was trying to mess with me. Eddie had no idea that they had done what they did. They sent me a letter saying that they had to be involved with EVH as he was a silent owner and was contractually obligated to include them in any products in the music business. (The original 5150 strings were Kramer by Ernie Ball on the back of the label) So I made a a deal where I would sell the strings to Kramer and they would pay EVH the agreed upon royalty. A couple of years went by and EVH’s in my opinion over her head junior accountant turned business manager called and said “You have never paid us royalties, I want an accounting immediately or I will issue a cease and desist order. I said “Wait a minute…Kramer is my customer I have paid them promptly and have zero obligation to provide you with an accounting. If you haven’t been getting royalties talk to Kramer.” She asked for the accounting again and I repeated that I didn’t have to but added, “If you ask Kramer for an audit and send me proof then I will give you an audit”

    Lets just say that was the end of EVH and Kramer. Our accounting was perfect and without casting any aspersions or allegations there allegedly a disconnect between the receiving and paying of royalties on Kramers part to EVH. EVH went red assed mad and severed the relationship with Kramer.

    The in my opinion over the head business manager (Who later got hers…thank god.) was now in the position of finding a new guitar company for EVH. There wasn’t anything that jumped out at them. I said “How about if I make a guitar in the interim?” We dont make enough to satisfy the demand but I can promise a great guitar, and we can make him anything he needs. We quickly designed and built a guitar that Im very proud of. Eddie made great music and some decent royalties. We made whatever he needed from double necks to baritones.

    The rest is history and most of the ending history is full of rumor and falsehoods and hurtful internet gossip. The relationship was a time bomb from a personal and business relationship. EVH had some well publicized issues and there was never any way where it could make the business people happy. We just weren’t big enough, and EVH and I hit the wall.

    The less said the better. It was ugly and didn’t have to be. We weren’t the only company that had the privilege of working with EVH. We weren’t the only company that parted ways in a difficult manner. I take it as a backhanded compliment that there is more interest in our era than the others. Maybe thats who some of the BS is out there.

    I enjoyed the opportunity to participate in the creative process and be an integral part in a very important period of a gifted musician.

    But like most things with my family it started with a little creativity, integrity, and a guitar string.
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  12. #12
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    11.25.17 @ 09:06 AM
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    Yeah, the whole thing...I don't think you can point the failure to any one thing. I mean Kramer from the very start had rather lofty ambitions with their alumineck design. They were a very boutique-ish guitar....built like a tank, but a bit of an oddity. Gary Kramer had a few interesting things to say about how he left the company from time to time. Basically he had implied he was forced out in a way.
    Another huge factor is they simply got too big too fast. Especially with Ed's usage and endorsement.
    Not only were necks made by ESP, but when demand overshot production, many bodies were actually crafted by a hunting decoy company called Sports.

    Dennis definetely had a a roll in the downfall of the company....He wasn't a bad guy, but he had so many outside interests, so a lot of Kramer profit which should have gone directly to it's own infrastructure, endorsees, suppliers and restructuring, instead went on to bankroll his other interests.

    As far as the offshore thing...As they were failing to pay vendors, it would seem they had no other option to rely on offshore fabrication. Offshore manufacturing in itself is not a bad deal, but you cannot misrepresent your product, and by numerous accounts, they did exactly that... Eddie's departure may have been fueled by the fact that Kramer were potentially facing some possible misrepresentation and taxation, and breach of contract charges regarding this and other fiscal issues, so he very well may not have wanted to have any association with the company if this all came down. Smart move actually. Tell people you were shocked when you found out and parted ways when you did. After all...You're the number one face of the company touting the product as a great American guitar...but wait....The guitar has a Neptune New Jersey neck plate...You've paid the "made in America" price tag.......but "My American guitar was made in Taiwan for essentially slave wages???"
    Set just trying to stay afloat aside, it was a very unethical move. I mean sure...You're probably getting essentially the same thing, but the fact is, you paid good money for a pretty bare bones no nonsense guitar, which is fine, but would you knowingly pay the same price for a Squier or Epiphone version of the much more expensive American made instrument?
    No you wouldn't, especially in those days where a lot of mass manufacturing over in those Countries had deplorable working conditions.

    When I worked in a shop years ago, we had some info sent to us that was sponsored by some smaller builders that had concerns about some of these companies. If I remember right, there was one Taiwanese manufacturing company (Not related to Kramer, but some other names were involved) that had been raided. It was brutal. The average employees were aged between 7 and 19, very long breakless days and "wages" topped out around $2.25 per day...That was the top, so imagine how low the other wages were. There were inoperable toilets, feces and urine in the warehouse areas, reports of physical abuse, etc....Not very pleasant at all, so Kramer could have been facing a lot of heat if their manufactures resembled at all what these others were like, charging full American manufacturing pricing.

    That aside, as others said, the true downfall was bad decision, after bad decision.
    Last edited by we die young; 10.09.14 at 09:45 AM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by thismusicsux View Post

    ----

    This article was written as Internet rumors of Michael Jackson .
    When I read that line I was reminded of the major trolling by some yahoo with the same ID that stirred up the Pleasure Dome message board for months with false Van Halen rumors...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Lee View Post
    I was fortunate enought to tour the Kramer factory and talk at length with Dennis Berardi in the summer of '86, when the 5150 tour was going on. I had ordered a Kramer Focus 5000 that took months to get and was the wrong color when it arrived. I was also told that was the only color being made for the foreseeable future. So I wrote a letter to Dennis, complaining. I was 15 at the time. A week later Dennis called me to apologize. I was pretty floored. I lived in NJ, so he told me to come down to the factory and bring my guitar, which also had a shorted out pickup wire I had mentioned in the letter. He mailed me a case of Floyd Rose strings too.

    Anyway, I don't have those photos scanned, but it was a pretty cool day. I brought my best friend who had had similar issues with his candy apple red Baretta (just like the one Sammy plays in LWAN). When we got there, we could see two painted up 5150-like guitars sitting in a chair. Dennis said they were being shipped out to Chicago to meet Ed on the tour. He also showed us a bunch of photos of a backyard bbq at his house with Ed and a slew of other Kramer endorsers. I've seen some of those photos on the Internet somewhere years ago, perhaps the Classickramer site. Anyway, Dennis had just gotten them then and pulled them out of his briefcase. Then he walked us around the assembly and paint areas and took us over to a workshop, where a tech replaced one of my pickups. He had a 5150-painted body on his bench and I do still have a good photo of that I need to scan and post here.

    We walked out of there a few inches off the ground, so excited. A few weeks later I went to see VH at the Meadowlands and spotted Dennis by the soundboard. I went down to chat with him. Valerie B. was there too. Dennis said he'd get me an autographed photo of Ed and to call him a week later. I happened to be the area again a week or two later and stopped by and, sure enough, there as an autographed photo waiting for me. It was a black and white of Ed in the No Bozos shirt with the white Baretta. I still have it in a frame with my ticket stub and a pick I later caught from Ed on the Balance tour.

    IIRC, he hooked up with EBMM sort of by chance when someone there approached Ed about licensing the 5150 strings. Every time I go to NAMM and see Sterling Ball walking around, not talking with anyone, I feel like asking him what really went down. But I wouldn't do that.
    Oh man!!
    Please post those photos!!!

    I think i have those bbq photos.

    Yeah i was with some friends at the EBMM NAMM booth last January and saw Sterling Ball but didn't bother him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deklon2 View Post
    Actually, Kramer guitars was owned by it's little known parent company Kremerica Industries. Kremerica took all the money they were making from guitar sales and invested in a more lucrative oil tanker bladder system. When that, and the subsequent "ketchup and mustard in the same bottle" project failed, so did the guitar division.
    Wasn't that "Kramerica Industries?"

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