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  1. #1
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    Default Iran & USA: A rapprochement?

    I am interested to hear what other think about my thoughts about the possible rapprochement between Iran and the United States. I have included some articles and videos that expand on my opinion. Even if you hate what I am writing please lets try to keep this civilized

    1. The possibility of a harmonious relationship is largely dependent on the US's position on NOT pushing for regime change. This seems to be the direction of the current administration.

    2. The Nuclear negotiations and Iran's stance is not about weapons, but about Iran's desire to join the list of countries who supply nuclear fuel. Iran is aware of the declining importance of Oil. And of course other suppliers do not want another big player coming in.

    3. Detente between Iran and Israel is possible, as Iran's support for groups in Lebanon and Palestine is more about a first line of defense for Iran, rather than ideology. However this is some ways off for now (this is my opinion, I cannot support it with facts and sources).

    4. Iranians are realizing that gradual change is more desirable than sudden change as per "Arab Spring" and the disaster it has caused in countries like Libya and Egypt. Check out Ramita Navai's comments about the same on the Daily Show

    http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/9079fh/ramita-navai

    Here is a Reuters article about a quid pro quo suggestion (unofficial) from Iran which has a very big problem with ISIS.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0HG0YN20140922
    Last edited by Aristotle; 09.22.14 at 07:29 AM.
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    Atomic Punk Dave's Dreidel's Avatar
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    I personally think we should have nothing to do with countries that believe in the following:

    No free press.
    No freedom of religion.
    No equality of the sexes.
    Imprisonment, torture and execution of homosexuals and others they consider to be "deviant".
    Slave labor.

    There are certain things that to us should be non-negotiable.

    So no, fuck Iran. And fuck China, Saudi Arabia and a lot of countries that we do business with that we shouldn't too.

    Just my $0.02.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    I personally think we should have nothing to do with countries that believe in the following:

    No free press.
    No freedom of religion.
    No equality of the sexes.
    Imprisonment, torture and execution of homosexuals and others they consider to be "deviant".
    Slave labor.

    There are certain things that to us should be non-negotiable.

    So no, fuck Iran. And fuck China, Saudi Arabia and a lot of countries that we do business with that we shouldn't too.
    I agree with your $0.02.

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    As long as Irans leaders publicly call for the destruction of Israel and deny the holocaust etc. The answer is no. I would love to see a world at peace and with no hate but I do not have that power. Stay safe Ari.
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    12.14.17 @ 10:41 PM
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    I'm very concerned about past comments/sentiments from leadership in Iran calling for the destruction of Israel, and I would have to say that is the centerpiece of any "repprochment" conversation with Iran. The culture of Israel is a large part of America in terms of where our laws came from and how our society functions so when you have a country like Iran who is deeply rooted in islam calling for the anihilation of Israel, lets just say that at best there will always be a suspicion between us. It seems to me that Iranians are willing to be allied with the "west" but then you hear of shit like women being stoned for switching from islam to Christianity or citizens being sent to jail for dancing to "Happy" I just don't see the USA backing a country with those kind of ideals. At one time we were great allies and it could be possible again but there is going to have to be major concessions on the part of Iran.
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    These are the principle's at the core of the Constitution of the US, one othe most powerful documents ever to be written. I will not argue with your stance as it seems to be fairly and evenly applied to all countries who come short of their application.

    But I think that 70 years of Soviet history prove that isolation only limits the efforts of ordinary citizens of these countries to effect any change within their own nation. Because they would be accused of siding with the enemy. Throughout the rule of communism in Russia and the eastern block, the US maintained a fully functional embassy in Moscow and at the height of the Cold War the US was still conversing with a country that categorically threatened it with nuclear destruction. THAT was, IMO, the right approach.

    Trade, tourism and ordinary diplomatic discourse is a great catalyst to facilitating positive change. There are foreign companies in Iran who implement global policies of equal opportunity for all sexes and races. They are setting a standard beyond the law of the land.

    More international contact would move Iran towards the below principles, isolation only preserves the status quo. Dont you think?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave's Dreidel View Post
    I personally think we should have nothing to do with countries that believe in the following:

    No free press.
    No freedom of religion.
    No equality of the sexes.
    Imprisonment, torture and execution of homosexuals and others they consider to be "deviant".
    Slave labor.

    There are certain things that to us should be non-negotiable.

    So no, fuck Iran. And fuck China, Saudi Arabia and a lot of countries that we do business with that we shouldn't too.

    Just my $0.02.
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    Atomic Punk bsbll4's Avatar
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    Diplomacy and peaceful change is always preferable to direct or proxy wars. My concern is that we were allied with the Soviets in World War II, but that didn't change the aversion the communist regimes had for the US, and in the end, didn't really change the conditions between the two powers. It wasn't until 50 years later that the proxy wars, increased defense spending, and ultimate economic collapse of the Soviet Union caused any meaningful change. Even now that progress is being walked back at an alarming pace.

    IF Iran was only interested in supplying nuclear fuel (which would go against evidence that they've pursued enriched uranium for weaponization) AND that could be guaranteed, I wouldn't have a problem with it--and neither would the US. The problem is that the Iranian regime can't be trusted so the West is trying to stall the progress as long as possible until that peaceful liberalization happens inside Iran.
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    My opinion is just conjecture. Its based on interpretation of events and reading between the lines. So I would only go as far as explaining the basis but cant argue too much for it....

    So with that disclaimer, my reply to the below is that around 12 years ago Iran completely halted the progress of their Nuclear program and got absolutely no conceasions from the US on the embargo. So in order to get some concessions policy was chnaged and Iran started to advance its nuclear program quite drastically. And now even a small step backwards is seen as progress. Its a tried and tested method of negotiation. Never give anything away if you are not receiving something else in return. And make sure you are holding some valuable cards.

    This is how I see things.

    Quote Originally Posted by bsbll4 View Post
    IF Iran was only interested in supplying nuclear fuel (which would go against evidence that they've pursued enriched uranium for weaponization) AND that could be guaranteed, I wouldn't have a problem with it--and neither would the US. The problem is that the Iranian regime can't be trusted so the West is trying to stall the progress as long as possible until that peaceful liberalization happens inside Iran.
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    Last edited by Jesus H Christ; 09.22.14 at 06:32 PM.
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    Maybe our CIA should not have helped orchestrate the overthrow of Iran in 1953...

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    Ron Paul has some balls and while I don't agree with him on everything he was a breath of fresh air in the last 2 elections. His son is not nearly as charismatic. I would love to see Ron be the Sec of the Treasury in a republican administration. Wall Street would put a hit on him.
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    Boehner invites Israeli PM Netanyahu to address Congress - Washington Times

    Democrats and Republicans alike brushed off President Obama’s threat to veto stiffer Iran sanctions, insisting Wednesday that the White House is being bamboozled by the ayatollahs, and it’s up to Congress to stiffen the administration’s spine as it negotiates over Tehran’s nuclear program.

    House Speaker John A. Boehner, Ohio Republican, said he’s invited Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu — a firm critic of the administration’s negotiations with Iran — to speak to a joint session of Congress next month to lay out the dangers an assertive Iran and the growing militant Islamic threat pose to stability in the region.

    Senators, meanwhile, said they’re pushing ahead with legislation despite Mr. Obama’s veto threat, and warned that if the administration doesn’t cooperate, the president could find himself facing the first veto override of his tenure.

    “I want you to ask me for permission, and I want you to present the agreement to us, and I want you to present an agreement we all like,” said Sen. Rand Paul, Kentucky Republican. “You’re not going to get everybody, but I think the vast majority will vote for a reasonable thing.”

    Mr. Obama’s negotiators are part of an effort, along with Russia, China and European allies, to try to get Iran to halt and roll back its nuclear program, which Iranian leaders say is peaceful but which international arms control experts say appears aimed at producing nuclear weapons. The negotiators have set a March deadline for producing the outlines of an agreement and a June deadline for a final compromise.

    The president has asked for flexibility in the negotiations, saying that while previous sanctions imposed by Congress have helped bring Iran to the table, any further moves could spook Iranian leaders or upset the other partners who are part of the negotiations.


    His pleas have not swayed lawmakers on Capitol Hill, where Democrats and Republicans say he’s hurt his own case by cutting secret deals with other world leaders in the past and seems to be too weak in dealing with Tehran.

    Sen. Robert Menendez, the top Democrat on the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, told top State Department officials Wednesday that the administration’s defense sounded like Iranian talking points, and said it appeared the U.S. was doing all of the giving in the negotiations.

    The U.S. went into negotiations with the goal of shutting down the nuclear program, but it now appears the best the Obama team can win is a permanent freeze, where it would take Iran about a year to rekindle its full weapons program and build a nuclear bomb.

    Senators said that was unacceptable and would destabilize the region.

    Israel in particular could feel pressure to act, and Mr. Boehner said hearing Mr. Netanyahu’s thoughts on Iran is one reason he asked the prime minister to speak to Congress.

    The White House called the invitation a breach of protocol, saying it is usually told ahead of time when a world leader will be coming to Washington. But spokesman Josh Earnest said Mr. Obama wasn’t annoyed by the breach, and Mr. Boehner said he didn’t “believe I’m poking anyone in the eye” with the invitation.

    “There is a serious threat that exists in the world. The president last night kind of papered over it,” Mr. Boehner said. “There needs to be a more serious conversation in America about how serious the threat is from radical Islamic jihadists and the threat posed by Iran.”

    The House in the last Congress passed stiffer sanctions, and both Mr. Boehner and House Committee on Foreign Affairs Chairman Edward R. Royce, California Republican, said they’re already working on a new bill.

    Senators, meanwhile, are pondering a number of options. One of those is to impose stiffer sanctions but to attach a trigger so that they only go into effect should the sides in the nuclear negotiations not be able to agree on a deal by June.

    Sen. Bob Corker, Tennessee Republican, meanwhile, has floated the idea of forcing Mr. Obama to come back to Congress for approval if the president decided he wants to suspend the current sanctions that are already biting.

    Mr. Paul and Sen. Barbara Boxer, California Democrat, are working on a separate proposal that wouldn’t impose any new sanctions now but would set rules for Congress to move quickly should the negotiations eventually falter. That bill would not give the U.S. a stiffer negotiating position right now, but it would quell the fears of some that getting new sanctions in place could take months — time that Iran could use to finish its nuclear program and therefore be tougher to negotiate with.

    Deputy Secretary of State Antony Blinken told the Senate that current sanctions are already working, and if Congress moves ahead with new penalties it will fracture the international coalition and could give Iran an excuse to withdraw from talks and rekindle its full nuclear program.

    “Iran is well aware that a sword of Damocles hangs over its head,” Mr. Blinken said. “New sanctions at this point are not necessary, but we also believe their passage now would put at risk getting to a final deal over the next several months.”

    He said input from Capitol Hill is welcome, but said Mr. Obama must retain final say, and even allowing Congress to vote on suspending the earlier sanctions it imposed could upset the international coalition.

    Senators disputed that, saying they’d talked with key foreign leaders and didn’t get any pushback. Mr. Menendez said it was striking that Iran’s negotiators have said they’ll have to run the final deal by their parliament but Mr. Obama was refusing to do the same with Congress.

    “Why is it possible that Tehran will treat its parliament better than the administration in the greatest democracy is willing to treat its Congress? It just boggles my imagination,” the New Jersey Democrat said.

    The administration is suffering for past botches as well.

    Members on both sides of the aisle said Mr. Blinken last year promised to consult with them before the administration struck any deals with Cuba. But just weeks later, the president announced a sweeping diplomatic deal without checking in with key lawmakers.

    “I regret that I did not live up to the standard I set,” a chastened Mr. Blinken said.

    Sen. Marco Rubio, the Florida Republican who grilled Mr. Blinken over his conduct, said it mattered because Mr. Blinken was once again promising to keep senators in the loop over negotiations with Iran.

    “We’re being asked to trust that we’re going to be fully consulted while the use of the word consultation, as it’s been defined by the administration … is problematic,” Mr. Rubio said.




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    Atomic Punk fast98dodge's Avatar
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    Boehner inviting Bibi? What a joke.

    Anyone who thinks Iran is stupid enough to start a nuclear war with anyone has been drinking too much of the koolaid...
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    Iran has the potential to be a stabilizing force in a region of constant craziness. However it will only thrive when the current corrupt regime will have been replaced with something reflecting what the Iranians want.
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    I have appreciated the OP's previous posts on living in Iran. Presents a human side to what we think of the people of Iran. That said, I kind of agree with the others sentiment about Israel. A country who wants to be respected in the world can't go around discussing the elimination of a country and with that the people in that country. Simply because of them being there. Especially when you think of the history of the Jewish people and how 8 million were wiped out for being in Europe. You want respect, start acting mature. You don't have to like the presence of Israel but don't fuck with them.

    Iran can do so much good for that area of the world if it just decided to give up the sponsorship of terror. Human rights is not a sticking point to me since we do business with so many countries that are just as bad.

    Quit sponsoring terror groups that cause harm to Israel. Stop spreading a message of hate. Then we can talk

 

 

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